Padding under speakers..
ofutch
Thread Starter
#1
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #1
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Padding under speakers..

Hey guys just got myself a set of Yamaha HS50m's and i've seen things about like the auralex mopads and things to go under the speakers are these absolutely necessary? what are their roles?
#2
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #2
Gear addict
 

It's for isolating vibration. You may want your gear and computer to be free from vibration buildup at loud volumes, so you stick these pads under your speakers to minimize that. They also tighten up the low end a little bit.

But, its mainly for keeping the vibration noises down when you got the monitors cranked and your hearing shit rattle and what not.

Edit: And your not gonna need those with HS50's. Those arent winning any awards in the low end category anytime soon.

#3
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #3
Gear nut
They assist in decoupling the monitor from whatever its sitting on. Those auralex ones also tilt the monitor down about 15 degrees too. Ive A/B'd it with hs50ms, and like them. Not necessary gear, though..

If you're mixing on a desk make sure you elevate the monitor to ear level, or else you'll be reducing the coupling, but increasing splash back!
#4
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Soft feets reduces vibrations and resonances in the upper bass/lower mids as well so even if the speaker mentioned is no LF champ it still makes sense to use isolating soft feets under the cabinets.


/Peter
#5
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Those auralex ones also tilt the monitor down about 15 degrees too.
Which is a fundamental flaw in a monitoring setup. you need to get your speakers to the right height in the first place, tilting them isnt the same.
#6
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #6
Special guest
 
mickglossop's Avatar
 

Padding under speakers

Simple blocks of foam are of very limited use.

The only product worth considering is the Recoil Stabilizer by Primacoustic:

Primacoustic - Acoustical Solutions

It incorporates a heavy sheet of steel which "stabilizes" the speaker as well as isolating it from the supporting surface.

It really has a beneficial effect on the clarity of the low-mid of the speakers.

Mick
#7
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickglossop View Post
Simple blocks of foam are of very limited use.

The only product worth considering is the Recoil Stabilizer by Primacoustic:
Anything soft that puts the resonant frequency below the audioband is perfectly fine.

That recoil thingy may work but the text on the site is the kind that makes you go "why did the engineers let the marketing department do this part..". :-)

There are special feets that works very well and the feets must be dimensioned for the mass of the speaker so that the compliance-mass combination set the resonant frequency low enough.


/Peter
#8
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #8
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickglossop View Post
Simple blocks of foam are of very limited use.

The only product worth considering is the Recoil Stabilizer by Primacoustic:

Primacoustic - Acoustical Solutions

It incorporates a heavy sheet of steel which "stabilizes" the speaker as well as isolating it from the supporting surface.

It really has a beneficial effect on the clarity of the low-mid of the speakers.

Mick
+1

Mrten
#9
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 

-1 Becasue what is written is wrong!


/Peter
#10
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #10
Gear maniac
 
patfont's Avatar
 

Smile

2 things you can do for low cost to improve your monitors sound.

1. Very cheap-go to Walmart and buy some "Pink Pearl" erasers (6 for 2 bucks) place 1 under each corner of the speakers (8 total) you will hear a difference total investment $4.00. (You have nothing to loose here-try it!)

2. Buy a furman power conditioner and plug your monitors in, you now also have an on/off switch, if yours were on the back, you will hear the difference, ebay price 60-100.00.

Now these are not earth shaking differences but for the $$ invested and if you have good ears you will hear it.
#11
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #11
Gear maniac
 
imixrecords's Avatar
 

Brightstar Audio has some "feet" that work well.
#12
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofutch View Post
things to go under the speakers are these absolutely necessary? what are their roles?
The basic idea is to decouple the speaker cabinet's vibration so it doesn't transmit sound through whatever it's resting on. Sound travels through solid materials faster than through air. So if sound travels to your ears via two paths, the different arrival times can cause comb filtering. But all speakers and tables etc do not need isolation. Invite two friends over and have each lift one speaker 1/4 inch while you listen. If you hear no difference, then you will not benefit from isolation pads.

--Ethan
#13
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Stevil's Avatar
i had some spare rubber drum mute stuff lying around i cut to shape & put under mine. i dunno if they sound better, but they have better gription & are less likely to slide when bumped.
#14
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
  #14
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
7161's Avatar
 

dont waste your money, use 2 bags of cooking salt, works great
MjS
#15
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #15
MjS
Gear interested
 

Bought MoPads because I'm too lazy to figure out a DIY-way to do it. For my bedroom-studio, it works. Don't have room for speaker stands so the 8 degree angle is very welcome. Also, my desk seems to resonate a lot and the MoPads do provide some isolation between speakers and desk, so there's a nice improvement there. Pretty sure you can DIY something like that though.
#16
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #16
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hugol's Avatar
 

I would agree with the comments about stabilisation from personal experience:


I bought Mopads when my monitors where resting on fairly insubstantial shelves - which is never good, but they definitely helped a bit and reduced resonance (no surprises).

However since then I relocated my monitors to my desk which is pretty solid, but never tried without the Mopads until recently. I found a substantial improvement just removing the Mopads and placing the speakers directly on the desk. Tighter bass and what I wasn't expecting - greatly improved highs - honestly a really noticeable difference.

Tempted to buy and place them on some heavy granite plynths next....
#17
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #17
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erosconpollo's Avatar
 

I used to use phone books for this but I switched to old Sweetwater catalogs 'cause I figured they'd be more musical.
#18
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #18
Gear addict
 

i use those square foam sanding blocks from harbor freight.3$
#19
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #19
Lives for gear
 
sameal's Avatar
i found some square's of this foam stuff at the plant we use to pad places you could get a teeth-chattering-head-knocker from. it seems to work pretty good.


ive seen old carpet padding used as well.
#20
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #20
Lives for gear
 

#21
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #21
Lives for gear
MoPads are a trade-off, which is why they work for some and not for others. Yes, they help decouple the speakers from from the floor/desk which helps cut down resonance of the floor/desk which can help improve what you are hearing - especially in the low-end. The tradeoff is that now every time your woofer goes forward, your whole monitor moves slightly backward because it's not on a stable surface of sufficient mass. And everytime the woofer moves backwards, the whole monitor moves slightly forwards. This reduces clarity in the low end for obvious reasons. This is why you constantly hear of some people saying the MoPads helped them (those who have major coupling resonance problems that are bigger than the speaker shaking problem) and others who say they made things worse (those who had less couping resonance problems that were less of an issue than a shakey speaker).

Primeacoustic Recoils deal with this issue by having a rather heavy metal plate above the foam to create mass so the speaker won't move when the woofer is firing. A simple concept, but very effective.

Anyhoo, +1 on the Recoils.
#22
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #22
Gear maniac
 
patfont's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
MoPads are a trade-off, which is why they work for some and not for others. Yes, they help decouple the speakers from from the floor/desk which helps cut down resonance of the floor/desk which can help improve what you are hearing - especially in the low-end. The tradeoff is that now every time your woofer goes forward, your whole monitor moves slightly backward because it's not on a stable surface of sufficient mass. And everytime the woofer moves backwards, the whole monitor moves slightly forwards. This reduces clarity in the low end for obvious reasons. This is why you constantly hear of some people saying the MoPads helped them (those who have major coupling resonance problems that are bigger than the speaker shaking problem) and others who say they made things worse (those who had less couping resonance problems that were less of an issue than a shakey speaker).

Primeacoustic Recoils deal with this issue by having a rather heavy metal plate above the foam to create mass so the speaker won't move when the woofer is firing. A simple concept, but very effective.

Anyhoo, +1 on the Recoils.


You can get this same effect on the cheap by putting weight on top of the speaker. VPI used to make what was called the VPI brick. By adding weight to the top of the speaker you are helping to couple it to what ever foam device you have it on.
#23
26th July 2009
Old 26th July 2009
  #23
my computer table is flat so i used a piece of glass i found to bring my speaker monitors and screen up and the first thing i realized was the vibration from the speakers and all the muddiness that came along with that

i got the auralex foams and i could hear a huge difference right away
#24
2nd August 2009
Old 2nd August 2009
  #24
Gear nut
 

I have a pair of Yorkville ysm1p, pretty low-end, I'd been using for three years, thought they were alright. Then 6 weeks ago I set up some Paradigm Studio 20 v3 powered with Rotel rb-1080. Had them both set up so I'd have two to a/b compare mixes, Yorkies direct on my desktop, Paradigms set on top of those tilted down. With this setup, I thought, YUCK about the Yorkies compared to the Paradigms. Boomy muddy bass. How'd I think they were okay?

Then I read this thread and thought, hmm... Found some 1.5cm-thick dark grey/black dense foamy packing material I had hanging out in a box. Cut it up and put it underneath the Yorkvilles, two 6cm wide strips supporting each side, space under the center.

Night and Day difference for the better! Tightened the bass to the point I had to rethink how to listen to them. All this time I thought they were ok, now I think these things are really good. Definitely very usable with the Paradigms. NOW I have two USABLE monitor systems on which to compare mixes that I switch between regularly.

So thanks for the thread.

Perry

(I also realize it's not ideal at all to have my Paradigms tilted, but space constraints dictate. Nothing can be done; Believe me, I've thought and thought and tried.)
#25
2nd August 2009
Old 2nd August 2009
  #25
Gear Head
 
DarrinStephens's Avatar
 

I use cement "caps" that are something like 2" x 8" x 16" under my NS-10M's, and I put a piece of paper towel under the speakers to prevent scratches.

They're what they use to cap cement cinder block walls.
#26
2nd August 2009
Old 2nd August 2009
  #26
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rockerbruce's Avatar
 

Mopads resolved a annoying rattle for me
#27
7th August 2009
Old 7th August 2009
  #27
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G4Jet's Avatar
 

foam?

Dude get some speaker stands...you will love them!
MjS
#28
7th August 2009
Old 7th August 2009
  #28
MjS
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zohogan View Post
Dude get some speaker stands...you will love them!
Well, perhaps GOOD solid speakers stands, yeah, but my cheap stands don't stand really steady and that affects the sound in a bad way. Heavy, solid stands are generally recommended I think, unfortunately I don't have the room for it. MoPads are doing fine. The cheap stands had some sort of metal platform to put the monitors on (probably the size of a magazine and pretty solid), I put those between the MoPads and the monitors and it seems like the bass is a little bit tighter now. I recently changed listening position though, so I have no idea what the actual influence of the metal is...
#29
7th August 2009
Old 7th August 2009
  #29
Lives for gear
 
kafka's Avatar
 

If you don't want to invest in something expensive, you can diy yourself to about 90% of the way there, depending on your monitors and desk. If you look at the problem, there are plenty of improvised solutions that should work just about as well as anything you can buy.

I use a pile of books, and on the top, a layer of insulation styrofoam sandwiched between two carpet grippers. It was a night and day difference. Another layer of foam should help, and it would give me the other inch of height I need, given that I've run out of books I wanted to use. I could go further with it, but as I said, this is a 90% solution.
ofutch
Thread Starter
#30
7th August 2009
Old 7th August 2009
  #30
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
im not much of a DIY veteran! so i'm gonna go with speaker stands i think! thanks for the input guys
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