Guitar tone, amp modeling

[Katoo]

Originally Posted by corey.schroeder

Hahaha I love reading everyone argue back and forth about who is real rock producer and what the PROPER way to record guitar is..

To answer the original question posted, you actually got a really nice sound. The tone doesnt sound shallow or over processed like most amp sims. I just got a copy of the new Logic 9 and messed around with the amp modelers a bit.. You can tell these companies are spending tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars researching gear and hiring engineers to duplicate these sounds to almost sound like the real thing. If used tastefully, you can get really nice recordings using these modeled amps.

I must admit, there is really no way to beat the sound of a vintage plexi through a telefunken pre.. We've all heard this sound in records for the past 50+ years. It works.
But not everyones budget allows them this luxury.

I think you got a very useable recording with that amp modeler. If it works for your taste and your clients taste, by all means use it. Im no big time producer, just a fan of good recordings..

Keep up your good work man.

Thank you for your appreciation, I think that some stuff you get from amp sims could turn out to be useful in more than a few cases. Plus, I'd like to point out that the "fake" guitar tone I posted had been through some processing via Tritone plug-ins and the Vibe-Eq from Stillwell. I think they're damn good in getting some real vibe from... well, anything you want. Aaaaand, since now I'm recording this album for my band, on September I'll be posting some mix sessions. Then, I'm really gonna tell you if I found reamping guitars through amp sims really useful or not. In the meantime I'm spending time and energies on learning from cabinets and heads on how to get the best tone I can. I'll post some mesa tone asap.

Thanks everybody for keeping your mind open. And not minding at my english.

[Ken McLaren]

Hey Guys...Since this is a thread about amp sims I had to chime in on it. I cut my teeth as a guitarist with Marshalls and Hiwatt, Even old Traynors and GARNETS. So let me first say that I am a big proponent for the tube sound. Having said that I also believe in the future of ampsims, nowadays I work at designing them. I have a small startup company called AcmeBarGig, we primarily focus on creating new amps, not necessarily modeling amps, but creating amps that just can't be made in the real world.

If amp sims have any type of future I believe it will be when we start to use them to their potential. With the stuff I see on the market and being a VST developer myself, I can only conclude that we are not even coming close to the potential of what can be done. Once we all get past the idea that a little fender amp lives inside our computer we may start seeing some real innovation in this area. Someone said it earlier, these are tools, just like any other tools, If it sounds right, then it is right. If you want a Fender sound, there is only one way to get a real Fender sound, Record with a Real Fender, If you want a Marshall Sound then record with a Real Marshall. IMO there never has been and never will be a true representation of a modeled amp. Period. I believe its close, but its not real...

So my thoughts when starting AcmeBarGig was...Why bother trying to be an imitator, why not try and create something new and different and give the user possibilities that they cannot get anywhere else. Why just give them a bass treble and mid knob, why not let them define their tonestack, why no let them define what their input crossover is set to, or how much gain gets applied to each modeled tube? Although I have a great deal of respect for my fellow VST developers and certainly admire their work, I know how much more they can be doing to elevate this technology. I only wish they would...

Here's a video of my newest creation called DIG 2.5 Although this computer amp can be used to model almost any real world amp, its real purpose was to allow people the options to truly craft their own unique guitar sound. You can go inside the head and change the way things operate, not by changing make believe tubes or the like but in a true DSP sense, it is all operated by changing filters, crossovers, etc...Well you'll see what I mean...here's the video, and BTW, This amp is freeware....

http://files.getdropbox.com/u/923791/DIG25.wmv

Thanks for reading and I invite everyone on this thread to download DIG 2.5 when it comes out, just please take your time and learn its functions, you will be rewarded. We'll have tutorials, manuals, instructional videos, etc. and our support team is one of the best in the industry, so if you have questions ask away..Someone will answer you very quickly, especially at our forums...

AcmeBarGig | FREE In-House Developed VST Plugins

KM

[Katoo]

Ok, I'm finally posting my results after messing around with heads,cabs and microphones.

TEDGUITARTONE.mp3

It's a 50w Mesa Single Rectifier on a 4x12 Orange cab. I used one sm57, one AT pro25 and one AKG 414. And some plug-in trickery, of curse. But no amp sim. It's a Musicman on left tracks and a Telecaster on right tracks. Please don't mind at the flamming drum hits, it's just a sample.

Let me know your opinions.

[ohmicide]

LOL the intro reminded me of nine inch nails for a second.. weird because i was just listening to them

but anyways, i think there's too much gain going on for my liking

[noah330]

Originally Posted by TobyToby

Possible even your website makes you look stupid (and me, I took time to visted it) because you've stated every TFK valve you have swapped. Is this a kind of unique selling proposition for a project place with generic equipment? . . . Maybe you should focus on recording in regard to the time factor of 2700 postings. . . That finally forces me to realize a haughty a$$ cramp with shades who stands for another example that shows that people from the third rank often have the largest big mouth<>content discrepancy and rude communication ethics -in contrast to many big player who are enjoyable, well-meaning and informative in such topics . . Some of the characteristics that possibly contributes a part to persistent success. Meanwhile, encroaching snappy upstarts with a behavior problem that is not justified by their talent are the swin flu of the biz. As always IMO after 20h without sleep

True

[Chris Lago]

Good stuff, which software for drums again?

[aortizjr]

I have to say I have been really impressed lately with some of the later guitar sims. Miles better than earlier stuff. I have Guitar Rig 3, haven't put it through all the paces yet but it is definitely usable. I still use a SansAmp GT-2 and a Behringer V-Amp Pro and Behringer Bass V-Amp Pro for demos and it sounds convincing enough for demos.

I have plenty of nice amps. A couple Fenders, ENGL, Sovtek, Mesa but it is more about the convenience of using modelers. And with most home studios, you are looking at non-ideal mics, cheap pres, bad rooms, non ideal placement. Also you might make the mistake of getting something that sounds good on its own, but just obliterates a mix. Basically it isn't a gurantee of stellar tone if done badly.

Guitar tone I think is one of the hardest things to nail. With modelers you have lots of options which allow you to tweak. My beef with them is the so many options. And they are designed by people who understand the options and they give them all to you, which is awesome if you are tone tweaker.

But most guitarists, and probably engineer/producers, aren't going to know what the tonstack curve looks like, or what their cabinet and their room are doing. Or the magic interaction of the mic and speaker and EQ and dynamic effects. They are just going to get frustrated with why it doesn't sound great. I don't like amps with tons of options too, my Mesa Mark III is a great example. Awesome sounding, can do anything, but holy tweaker. I am still dialing it after 3 years. Vs. my ENGL, bass, mid, treble and presence and depth in the power amp. I get a stellar tone in seconds.

So I think you CAN get great tones these days, but it is going to take some serious tweaking unless you know what you are doing. And most presets sound like crap, more about showing off what it can do and all the features than actually focusing on tone. But I even understand tone stacks and eq curves and have a pretty good idea of what the EQ curve should look like and gain staging and speaker mic interaction. But with so many options, I will spend hours dialing in a modeler.

Also folks must remember that it will never sound/feel like an amp in the room. The goal is for it to sound like an amp that has been recorded. Put a 57 on a cab and it won't sound like it does in the room (yeah it will be a representation) but less lows, no highs, and a boosted and biting midrage. Horrible if the amp actually sounded like that.

But damn that combination really helps it sit in a mix. Just enough bite and midrange cut to make it present and cut, but leave enough room for everything else.

Addmittedly you can mess that up to. But I can get 80-90% there or enough to make a client happy is much less time.

[aortizjr]

Oh I just wanted to add, the modelers I have used:

Commercial:
Guitar Rig 3, Behringer V-Amp2 V-Amp Pro and V-Amp Bass Pro, Sansamp GT-2, Waves GTR, Amplitube LE, StudioDevil, POD, POD XT, Zoom GFX-8, Digitech GSP1101, Digitech RP350.

Personally the Free stuff is where to be looking these days. I also find cabinet impulses to be a HUGE help.

Free:
Nick Crow stuff is awesome for metal (7505, 8508, Wagner Sharp, etc.), LePou's stuff (Solo C), AcmeBarGig I haven't gotten into but it looks great, FreeAmp (great effects), Dirthead .81 is great, SimulAnalog (sp?), Ardaz (great for rock, punk and clean).

And there are tons and tons more.

The only downside the to the free VST's is that I have trouble with latency on my machine while tracking. Even with 3-10ms it is usable but bothers me. And at that latency, the VST's, and Impulses are CPU eaters. Especially when you have EzDrummer and/or Kontakt, maybe a few other VSTI's, then on track 4 of guitars, all with impulses and sims. Even my Quad core gets angry.

But I just take a DI and then use one of my many hardware modelers for zero-ish latency monitoring (even those modelers will have 1-3ms delay). Then I can tweak the VST's on mixdown and use freezing and such if I need more CPU.

[Katoo]

For Chris Lago: that is not drums simulation, it's just the drums sessions I recorded for this album (a fast premix actually). The snare is a trigger I made (you can download it here: http://www.katoo.it/TRUTH-DELODRUMS_...S_by_Katoo.zip) and the kick is a trigger from the same kit I recorded on that session. It's a DW Satinoil kit with a Sonor snare and Zildjan A series cymbals. Tracking through my Portico 5012 Duo channels, Audient ASP008 and FMR RNP. Heil, Shure, Coles, KEL, AT and Sennheiser microphones. And a great pine wood room.

[Chris Lago]

It has a really good tone, I love it a lot. The link doesn't work, could you send it to me at chrislago@live.com or upload it on here?

[Katoo]

Originally Posted by chrislago

It has a really good tone, I love it a lot. The link doesn't work, could you send it to me at chrislago@live.com or upload it on here?

http://www.katoo.it/TRUTH-DELODRUMS_...S_by_Katoo.zip

If you use it, tell me!

[Chris Lago]

I probably will, I like the sounds.