Guitar tone, amp modeling - Page 2

Katoo · 22nd July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrislago

Ok ok, but there's no technique involved, just get a mic on the speaker and play away! Mic the amps, get a di, try both, keep what you like, end of story.

Right what I'm doing. Easy. Just I think mic placement (and mic choosing) should be not understimated.

I agree with Turbojets: impressed doesn't mean "I go for it". Just watch out, it's getting cool.

I'll post some samples from the tones I'm recording today. Real mesa ones.

manning1 · 22nd July 2009

i dont know if folks will like the sounds but ive found some interesting stuff in some
of the freebies like freeamp and acmebargig.

Katoo · 22nd July 2009

Here is a sample from the mesa head/cab I recorded today. It sounds pretty dark, but probably it's better eqing later on than recording with a lot of fuzz...maybe.

Any suggestion on how should I record that? More fuzz and brighter, or less fuzz and darker?

www.katoo.it/mesa.mp3

Chris Lago · 23rd July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katoo

Here is a sample from the mesa head/cab I recorded today. It sounds pretty dark, but probably it's better eqing later on than recording with a lot of fuzz...maybe.

Any suggestion on how should I record that? More fuzz and brighter, or less fuzz and darker?

www.katoo.it/mesa.mp3

I'd say, don't fix in the mix, get it sounding right at the source.

joeydego · 23rd July 2009

The best Ive gotten an amp sim to sound is "decent", and thats a stretch. HOWEVER, layering a real amp recording with a direct in, and amp simming THAT, can yield very interesting results.

mdme_sadie · 23rd July 2009

There's one real advantage to an amp sim : it's clean. In fact it's so clean that it nears the sound of a synth or supercompressed/chopped sample to my ears, but on the plus side you don't have to deal with ambient noises while recording, and in general it's gated to hell too. It can sound fine in a mix if you love that "pop" loudness sound as they tend to come pre-mixed to a specific tone that perhaps one studio might have got out of a real amp one day. Good luck trying to get more variety/less fizz ouf of it though.

I don't like sims to play, the feel is never really there. But just think of them as any other effect or instrument you're putting on the chain, it's fun to shape the sound with them and mostly they have better distortions than the standard painful bitcrusher style effects that most daws come with, so theyr'e useful for that if nothing else.

lobsty · 23rd July 2009

In general I think simulators work ok for for little additional parts and stuff like that, but if you're wanting one big fat guitar track that is the main part then forget it.
If you have to go with simulation, go a Sansamp instead.

disconnected · 23rd July 2009

I'm a little torn on this - I like real amp tone if I can get it.
I have a bunch of Line 6 stuff Pod x3 and XT live that I like alot too.

Our last CD I used my Ampeg SVT 3 Pro head - no cab just DI'd out the back of the head with my Fender P Bass Deluxe and got an awesome tone

Our guitar player was DI'd - they wouldn't let him use his Marshall
They used Amp Farm on him and it sounds modeled
It doesn't sound bad it's just not his sound - kind of fuzzy

I've used my Line 6 gear at home - no amp
and gotten great tones
I've also used my Line 6 gear through my amps and gotten great tones

to each their own I say - I used to be a purist - has to be an amp
now I'm open to whatever sounds the best

TobyToby · 23rd July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrislago

Your reply really made us realize that you need to focus on the recordings at hand, not the gear!

Well, whaddya know! for an individual who has nothing to do with real rock sound . . . or have I missed something, haha. Potentially your little wee wee productions are going to your head and let yourself transform into a self-proclaimed wise a$$ who just claims all other readers sharing your 'opinions'.

I have NOT REALIZED that the OP 'need to focus on the recordings, not the gear' (He his is probably more experienced than you because he owns a few real nice amps, but you not). . . nor that one of his postings make him look 'even more stupid' as you said.
Possible even your website makes you look stupid (and me, I took time to visted it) because you've stated every TFK valve you have swapped. Is this a kind of unique selling proposition for a project place with generic equipment? . . . Maybe you should focus on recording in regard to the time factor of 2700 postings. . . That finally forces me to realize a haughty a$$ cramp with shades who stands for another example that shows that people from the third rank often have the largest big mouth<>content discrepancy and rude communication ethics -in contrast to many big player who are enjoyable, well-meaning and informative in such topics . . Some of the characteristics that possibly contributes a part to persistent success. Meanwhile, encroaching snappy upstarts with a behavior problem that is not justified by their talent are the swin flu of the biz. As always IMO after 20h without sleep

To Katoo:
About every 3 years I've a closer look to the virtual amp market. Just to know if something new was developed that has a kind of real amp response and tone. Probably it's me but I am only able to dial in a real amp. Sometimes I am using a Pod XT for clean'ish picking or single notes when I am to lazy to switch on a real amp (and have to wait for the right amount of electrons). But for a round distorting I have not found any modeller that is able to deliver it without a metallish top end, graininess or an always the same sounding basic sound (like the sansamp, which is analog) Starting this thread asking for opinions and sharing experiences is fair enough. Now I know not much more . . even as a hardcore amp user I am pretty open so I'll give ampfarm a try on some future occasion. So thanks to you and to the posters who risc their reputation here

and give a constructive input.

Happy Musicfan · 23rd July 2009

Metallish, brittle and grainy must be overcome..... AND DEEEESTROOYYYYED !!! I'm looking for crisp, sweet and sparkling in the high end ----- fat and round in the low end. Yep.... *WARM*.

Katoo · 24th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobyToby

To Katoo:
About every 3 years I've a closer look to the virtual amp market. Just to know if something new was developed that has a kind of real amp response and tone. Probably it's me but I am only able to dial in a real amp. Sometimes I am using a Pod XT for clean'ish picking or single notes when I am to lazy to switch on a real amp (and have to wait for the right amount of electrons). But for a round distorting I have not found any modeller that is able to deliver it without a metallish top end, graininess or an always the same sounding basic sound (like the sansamp, which is analog) Starting this thread asking for opinions and sharing experiences is fair enough. Now I know not much more . . even as a hardcore amp user I am pretty open so I'll give ampfarm a try on some future occasion. So thanks to you and to the posters who risc their reputation here

and give a constructive input.

Well, thank you for making my point of view clearer than what I could ever did

I think my approach on digital facilities is pretty much the same as yours. I'm a massive Tritone products user, I like the way they simulates an Amek freq response, but I don't think that they're just like the same. Sure not. Just, since they're tools, I like to choose among my tools palette. Thinking just straight is not my way, nor yours I see

Chris Lago · 25th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobyToby

Well, whaddya know! for an individual who has nothing to do with real rock sound . . . or have I missed something, haha. Potentially your little wee wee productions are going to your head and let yourself transform into a self-proclaimed wise a$$ who just claims all other readers sharing your 'opinions'.

I have NOT REALIZED that the OP 'need to focus on the recordings, not the gear' (He his is probably more experienced than you because he owns a few real nice amps, but you not). . . nor that one of his postings make him look 'even more stupid' as you said.
Possible even your website makes you look stupid (and me, I took time to visted it) because you've stated every TFK valve you have swapped. Is this a kind of unique selling proposition for a project place with generic equipment? . . . Maybe you should focus on recording in regard to the time factor of 2700 postings. . . That finally forces me to realize a haughty a$$ cramp with shades who stands for another example that shows that people from the third rank often have the largest big mouth<>content discrepancy and rude communication ethics -in contrast to many big player who are enjoyable, well-meaning and informative in such topics . . Some of the characteristics that possibly contributes a part to persistent success. Meanwhile, encroaching snappy upstarts with a behavior problem that is not justified by their talent are the swin flu of the biz. As always IMO after 20h without sleep

To Katoo:
About every 3 years I've a closer look to the virtual amp market. Just to know if something new was developed that has a kind of real amp response and tone. Probably it's me but I am only able to dial in a real amp. Sometimes I am using a Pod XT for clean'ish picking or single notes when I am to lazy to switch on a real amp (and have to wait for the right amount of electrons). But for a round distorting I have not found any modeller that is able to deliver it without a metallish top end, graininess or an always the same sounding basic sound (like the sansamp, which is analog) Starting this thread asking for opinions and sharing experiences is fair enough. Now I know not much more . . even as a hardcore amp user I am pretty open so I'll give ampfarm a try on some future occasion. So thanks to you and to the posters who risc their reputation here

and give a constructive input.

What the hell are you talking about man? I started out as a Rock Producer, miking Mesa and Marshall Cabs and miking real drums. I still produce rock artists, not as much as I used to, because I found my niche and clients, get with the times man.

I even had a rock band 2 years ago and was ready to sign on Roadrunner Records, I wouldn't say the same about you. Last but not least, all the songs we did were recorded by me, with a Diezel VH4, Tama Drums, Peavey bass into Ampeg bass cab... Yeah ok, amp simulation my ass. Don't diss when you don't know.

I sold my own Rock gear (Roland TD12 Drums, Tama drums, Marshall DSL half stack) because I don't make that music anymore, and I enjoy producing RNB/Pop/Electro a lot more. Kept my 2 guitars though.

allencollins · 25th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by alehoe

AC/DC used amplitube two for a couple of the songs on their last album

so go figure

really? what version?

weird

58lespaul · 25th July 2009

Amp modeling has its place but we have some great options now as far as live goes such as those awesome low wattage tube amps that are becoming so popular. I use amp modeling for sketching ideas but when it comes time to record I have my Vox AC4TV. 4 watts of all tube fury, sounds great and is a hell of a lot easier to record than bigger amps such as my 100 watt amp. I have absolutely loved the low wattage tube amp arms race.

Katoo · 25th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58lespaul

Amp modeling has its place but we have some great options now as far as live goes such as those awesome low wattage tube amps that are becoming so popular. I use amp modeling for sketching ideas but when it comes time to record I have my Vox AC4TV. 4 watts of all tube fury, sounds great and is a hell of a lot easier to record than bigger amps such as my 100 watt amp. I have absolutely loved the low wattage tube amp arms race.

I got the same thought about low wattage. I'm also thinking about buying a wattage adaptor (step-down adaptor? I don't know how to say this in english), it makes loud heads really easy to record.

Chris Lago · 25th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58lespaul

Amp modeling has its place but we have some great options now as far as live goes such as those awesome low wattage tube amps that are becoming so popular. I use amp modeling for sketching ideas but when it comes time to record I have my Vox AC4TV. 4 watts of all tube fury, sounds great and is a hell of a lot easier to record than bigger amps such as my 100 watt amp. I have absolutely loved the low wattage tube amp arms race.

How does it sound? Any Examples?

oceantracks · 25th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboJets

Nothing personal so please don't take it personally, but Motley Crue is hardly "relevant" to the rock scene any more. Seriously, at the risk of getting flamed and loving Crue just as much as anyone else they just aren't relevant.

Who cares if they are relevant? Not the point of the post....

I think what everyone misses is that there are going to be times when there is no advantage, or little advantage, in using a real amp if the guitar PART within a given song sounds good with the sim. If it works it works. There are many times when I've gotten a perfect sound for the part I'm doing right out of Guitar Rig. Other times, the sim sounds so pathetic that I just shake my head. So in short I find it hit or miss, but I don't think it has to be either or. You use both. Unless you are a millionaire you are not going to have all the amp and cab simulations that the plug offers, even if they aren't perfect, they offer more sounds at hand than the average guy has access to. But no they don't have "air" and in a perfect world with all the time in the world and great rooms and great gear to record them with, the real amp is going to be the way to go. But that's a lot of "ifs" for most people.

TH

mjacob · 25th July 2009

i don't think i've seen any talk of Digidesign "Eleven" on here. Anyone have experience with it? going to search around ...

oceantracks · 25th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjacob

i don't think i've seen any talk of Digidesign "Eleven" on here. Anyone have experience with it? going to search around ...

Eleven is a strange beast. I have heard many demos that sound great with it.

I am not an idiot, and have been playing a long time, but I have not been able to coax anything out of it that is extraordinary. It gets so little use that I removed it from my plug in folder.

I use Guitar Rig most of the time, and have tweak it a lot. Sometimes it sounds great, other times it blows, as I said. It is really hit or miss. I have managed to get good tracks out of most of the amp simulators out there at one time or another, depending on the part...

Also, many times a part will sound crappy alone but in the mix it works...something that doesn't happen with a real amp

TH

58lespaul · 26th July 2009

Ok guys, here are a couple of clips. Pod Farm has one of the best AC30 models I've heard so this should benefit it. The chain is as follows Epi Les Paul with Gibson 57 Classic Pick ups > Vox AC4TV > SM57 1" away on axis > Presonus Firestudio Project > Cubase 4. Sadly, my room is untreated (thats my next big purchase) but that shouldn't affect it too much since its a dynamic mic .

I tried to match the Pod Farm as closely as I could in its modeling settings to the AC4.

IMHO, they both sound pretty good. Don't mind the sloppyness in the guitar playing... slightly hungover...

Josh Rose · 26th July 2009

I've been using waves GTR a lot lately. I have had the opportunity to try many other amp sims. Prior to GTR, the only one that was convincing to me was Amplitube 2, and the Fender models on Digidesign Eleven.

GTR blows them out of the water though. I just finished tracking something with it the other day. With a nice fender american deluxe, it sounded fantastic.

ohmicide · 26th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by allencollins

really? what version?

weird

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by alehoe

AC/DC used amplitube two for a couple of the songs on their last album

so go figure

Quote:

Originally Posted by alehoe

well here's a good little article about malcolm young and amplitube

http://www.dawsons.co.uk/news/2008/1...ack-ice-album/

58lespaul · 26th July 2009

I may have done this one wrong in the POD Farm but I tried to match its settings as closely as I could to the real thing. I also tried to get the levels as close as possible, and according the Cubase the POD farm is about 1 DB louder at its peak. The chain is the same as before except the AC4 now has a Boss DS1 distortion pedal with the tone at about 11 o'clock and the distortion at 10 o'clock. Had to make it an MP3 so that I could attach it.

You can hear the guitar strings a bit on the AC4 one... sorry for that. I want to get you guys a natural overdrive sample of the AC4 but my GF decided to take a nap

I'll get you that one when I can. Oh yeah, the AC4TV was at the 1 watt setting for both of these. It sounds bigger and fuller at the full four watts but it also gets very loud and not very apartment friendly.

Even though the POD Farm is louder at its peak, it sounds much thinner than the real thing IMHO.

jbr101 · 26th July 2009

Jumping a little late into this thread, but here's the thing. There's no way a piece of software is going to totally replace the interaction of human playing, string vibration, wood types, differing cable types, pedals, input jack issues, temperature and humidity variables, and all the crazy stuff that happens between the player, amp and guitar (and the amp's surroundings). It just can't happen.

There are just too many variables going on for an amp sim to totally replace a real live amp and an engineer who really understands guitar tones and how to make them happen. Yes, there is a technique (defined as: a set of actions repeated over and over for a given situation) involved, contrary to what's been posted, and there's quite a few of them actually, both in tracking and mixdown. Each technique is different depending on gear, circumstances, etc.

All that being said, there are instances where amp sims do come into play and work well. The last posting by 58LesPaul really shows the major difference in amp sim vs. amp. I've even seen situations where layering real amps with amp sims worked out really well.

The bottom line is that you have to know what you're after tone-wise. If amp sims fit the bill then use them, if they don't, they don't. The same philosophy applies to re-amping as well. There are no rules - only results.

Insomniaclown · 26th July 2009

Just to steer this thread in a different direction for a moment. I think the OP was also looking for a little amp sim comparison discussion as well as amp vs amp sim discussion. I have had experience with a few, and from a guitarists point of view, some are better then others. I have used Guitar Rig 3, Amplitube metal and fender, peavey revalver MK III, and waves GTR solo.

Guitar Rig 3- First one I tried, and I bought it. Had it for over a year. Out of all of them it has the best interface, and the crazy FX sounds you can get are very cool. As a straight up amp sim, I don't like it at all. Clean sounds are meh, overdrive sounds have a very machinelike feel to them, and clear distinct high gain sounds are difficult to get. Some of the amp models are unusable for me, and the stock presets are not great. Some of the features didn't work like I thought they would (stacking cabinets), and the "expert mode" on the amps is not very useful.

Waves GTR solo is not for me. The sound is good, but it feels and sounds produced to me which limits its tonal variations. Everything sounds compressed. Preset management is clunky, but the interface is simple enough. Maybe Waves GTR 3 sounds better? Still, I think it sounds better that GR 3.

Revalver is pretty nice as well. All components on one screen, lots to choose from, and the tweak features are crazy. My main issure is that the Peavey models were the only usable ones (for me anyway). The sound was actually pretty decent, however, it sounds as if the "air" has been completley removed causing a little bit of a 2D feel to the sound. With all of the options available, I experienced a sense of "option anxiety", and I really couldn't nail down a sound that I really liked. I am the type who wants to see what everything sounds like before I get down to creating my own sounds. Helps me to build sounds faster. Good luck in revalver.

Amplitube Metal/Fender- Worst GUI by far for me. Everything on a different screen makes tweaking tedious, and seperates you a little bit from an actual setup. However, out of all of them, these two are my favourite. Limited options = less option anxiety= more creativity. It forces you to work with what you got a little more instead of flipping through a zillion presets looking for a sound. I also really enjoy the sound a lot more, especially overdriving those fender amps. Best overdrive sounds in amp sim land. Amplitube metals sounds damn good as well. I am actually working on a project right now where I will have my recorded mesa on one side, and amplitube metal on the other. I'll post a little clip when I get it worked out.

Just thought I'd share my opinion on some of the sims. Take it or leave it. As to Amp vs Amp sim for performance, you will never see me cracking out the amp sim on stage. Ever. When I am tracking though, anything goes as long as it does the job.

doncaparker · 27th July 2009

I think Insomniaclown has some good insights, but I would add that, if you can sort through all of the options on Revalver MK III, it can give you some good sounds. Some of the missing "air" he experienced might be due to the different cabinet and mic choices that are available. The default varies with the amp chosen, but you can pair any head with any speaker cab, and each speaker cab has a variety of mics that are modeled. I've tinkered with the cabs and mics and gotten dramatically different results without changing the amp or its settings. Also, anybody missing the "air" on Revalver should try adding the R1 digital reverb at the end of the chain. The default is a very subtle room setting, just barely there. Quite nice for adding some "fake reality" with little effort.

While the Peavey amps are certainly showcased, I have to say that the Fender and Mesa Boogie amps are also pretty good. Those two amps are very familiar to me, and I think Revalver does a good job of emulating them.

Mark Kaufman · 27th July 2009

The original question wasn't stupid in the least. Amp sims continue to improve, so it's just a matter of time before they equal the real thing. They're getting mighty close.

Currently, a good engineer miking a good live amp will win over an amp simulator, hands down. But three years from now? Could well be a whole different ballgame. Never say never.

Heartfelt · 27th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrislago

What the hell are you talking about man? I started out as a Rock Producer, miking Mesa and Marshall Cabs and miking real drums. I still produce rock artists, not as much as I used to, because I found my niche and clients, get with the times man.

I even had a rock band 2 years ago and was ready to sign on Roadrunner Records, I wouldn't say the same about you. Last but not least, all the songs we did were recorded by me, with a Diezel VH4, Tama Drums, Peavey bass into Ampeg bass cab... Yeah ok, amp simulation my ass. Don't diss when you don't know.

I sold my own Rock gear (Roland TD12 Drums, Tama drums, Marshall DSL half stack) because I don't make that music anymore, and I enjoy producing RNB/Pop/Electro a lot more. Kept my 2 guitars though.

post some of your non electronic stuff

Insomniaclown · 27th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by doncaparker

I think Insomniaclown has some good insights, but I would add that, if you can sort through all of the options on Revalver MK III, it can give you some good sounds. Some of the missing "air" he experienced might be due to the different cabinet and mic choices that are available. The default varies with the amp chosen, but you can pair any head with any speaker cab, and each speaker cab has a variety of mics that are modeled. I've tinkered with the cabs and mics and gotten dramatically different results without changing the amp or its settings. Also, anybody missing the "air" on Revalver should try adding the R1 digital reverb at the end of the chain. The default is a very subtle room setting, just barely there. Quite nice for adding some "fake reality" with little effort.

While the Peavey amps are certainly showcased, I have to say that the Fender and Mesa Boogie amps are also pretty good. Those two amps are very familiar to me, and I think Revalver does a good job of emulating them.

I guess I need to spend a little more time with revalver. There is just soooooo much going on. I tend to get a little impatient, but I must learn a little patience sometime. May as well be playing my guitar!

Good suggestions on the getting back some of that air. Maybe I haven't given revalver a fair shake.

corey.schroeder · 27th July 2009

Hahaha I love reading everyone argue back and forth about who is real rock producer and what the PROPER way to record guitar is..

To answer the original question posted, you actually got a really nice sound. The tone doesnt sound shallow or over processed like most amp sims. I just got a copy of the new Logic 9 and messed around with the amp modelers a bit.. You can tell these companies are spending tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars researching gear and hiring engineers to duplicate these sounds to almost sound like the real thing. If used tastefully, you can get really nice recordings using these modeled amps.

I must admit, there is really no way to beat the sound of a vintage plexi through a telefunken pre.. We've all heard this sound in records for the past 50+ years. It works.
But not everyones budget allows them this luxury.

I think you got a very useable recording with that amp modeler. If it works for your taste and your clients taste, by all means use it. Im no big time producer, just a fan of good recordings..

Keep up your good work man.

22nd July 2009	#32
manning1 Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: canada Posts: 3,998	i dont know if folks will like the sounds but ive found some interesting stuff in some of the freebies like freeamp and acmebargig. __________________ i'm just a dumb computer engr (ret'd)...."quantum computing is the future" running a native software studio daw...Powertracks and Reaper on amd. new cockney album released http://therockingbloodbrothers.blogspot.com/ my other little songs www.motagator.com/bmanning

23rd July 2009	#35
joeydego Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 2,677	The best Ive gotten an amp sim to sound is "decent", and thats a stretch. HOWEVER, layering a real amp recording with a direct in, and amp simming THAT, can yield very interesting results. __________________ My website

26th July 2009	#55
Insomniaclown Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Now in Wellington Posts: 823	Just to steer this thread in a different direction for a moment. I think the OP was also looking for a little amp sim comparison discussion as well as amp vs amp sim discussion. I have had experience with a few, and from a guitarists point of view, some are better then others. I have used Guitar Rig 3, Amplitube metal and fender, peavey revalver MK III, and waves GTR solo. Guitar Rig 3- First one I tried, and I bought it. Had it for over a year. Out of all of them it has the best interface, and the crazy FX sounds you can get are very cool. As a straight up amp sim, I don't like it at all. Clean sounds are meh, overdrive sounds have a very machinelike feel to them, and clear distinct high gain sounds are difficult to get. Some of the amp models are unusable for me, and the stock presets are not great. Some of the features didn't work like I thought they would (stacking cabinets), and the "expert mode" on the amps is not very useful. Waves GTR solo is not for me. The sound is good, but it feels and sounds produced to me which limits its tonal variations. Everything sounds compressed. Preset management is clunky, but the interface is simple enough. Maybe Waves GTR 3 sounds better? Still, I think it sounds better that GR 3. Revalver is pretty nice as well. All components on one screen, lots to choose from, and the tweak features are crazy. My main issure is that the Peavey models were the only usable ones (for me anyway). The sound was actually pretty decent, however, it sounds as if the "air" has been completley removed causing a little bit of a 2D feel to the sound. With all of the options available, I experienced a sense of "option anxiety", and I really couldn't nail down a sound that I really liked. I am the type who wants to see what everything sounds like before I get down to creating my own sounds. Helps me to build sounds faster. Good luck in revalver. Amplitube Metal/Fender- Worst GUI by far for me. Everything on a different screen makes tweaking tedious, and seperates you a little bit from an actual setup. However, out of all of them, these two are my favourite. Limited options = less option anxiety= more creativity. It forces you to work with what you got a little more instead of flipping through a zillion presets looking for a sound. I also really enjoy the sound a lot more, especially overdriving those fender amps. Best overdrive sounds in amp sim land. Amplitube metals sounds damn good as well. I am actually working on a project right now where I will have my recorded mesa on one side, and amplitube metal on the other. I'll post a little clip when I get it worked out. Just thought I'd share my opinion on some of the sims. Take it or leave it. As to Amp vs Amp sim for performance, you will never see me cracking out the amp sim on stage. Ever. When I am tracking though, anything goes as long as it does the job. __________________ The Big Rybowski

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22nd July 2009	#33
Katoo Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 47 Thread Starter	Here is a sample from the mesa head/cab I recorded today. It sounds pretty dark, but probably it's better eqing later on than recording with a lot of fuzz...maybe. Any suggestion on how should I record that? More fuzz and brighter, or less fuzz and darker? www.katoo.it/mesa.mp3

23rd July 2009	#36
mdme_sadie Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 958 1 Review written	There's one real advantage to an amp sim : it's clean. In fact it's so clean that it nears the sound of a synth or supercompressed/chopped sample to my ears, but on the plus side you don't have to deal with ambient noises while recording, and in general it's gated to hell too. It can sound fine in a mix if you love that "pop" loudness sound as they tend to come pre-mixed to a specific tone that perhaps one studio might have got out of a real amp one day. Good luck trying to get more variety/less fizz ouf of it though. I don't like sims to play, the feel is never really there. But just think of them as any other effect or instrument you're putting on the chain, it's fun to shape the sound with them and mostly they have better distortions than the standard painful bitcrusher style effects that most daws come with, so theyr'e useful for that if nothing else.

23rd July 2009	#37
lobsty Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Berlin Posts: 379	In general I think simulators work ok for for little additional parts and stuff like that, but if you're wanting one big fat guitar track that is the main part then forget it. If you have to go with simulation, go a Sansamp instead.

23rd July 2009	#38
disconnected Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13	I'm a little torn on this - I like real amp tone if I can get it. I have a bunch of Line 6 stuff Pod x3 and XT live that I like alot too. Our last CD I used my Ampeg SVT 3 Pro head - no cab just DI'd out the back of the head with my Fender P Bass Deluxe and got an awesome tone Our guitar player was DI'd - they wouldn't let him use his Marshall They used Amp Farm on him and it sounds modeled It doesn't sound bad it's just not his sound - kind of fuzzy I've used my Line 6 gear at home - no amp and gotten great tones I've also used my Line 6 gear through my amps and gotten great tones to each their own I say - I used to be a purist - has to be an amp now I'm open to whatever sounds the best

23rd July 2009	#40
Happy Musicfan Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,084	Metallish, brittle and grainy must be overcome..... AND DEEEESTROOYYYYED !!! I'm looking for crisp, sweet and sparkling in the high end ----- fat and round in the low end. Yep.... WARM.

25th July 2009	#44
58lespaul Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 268	Amp modeling has its place but we have some great options now as far as live goes such as those awesome low wattage tube amps that are becoming so popular. I use amp modeling for sketching ideas but when it comes time to record I have my Vox AC4TV. 4 watts of all tube fury, sounds great and is a hell of a lot easier to record than bigger amps such as my 100 watt amp. I have absolutely loved the low wattage tube amp arms race.

25th July 2009	#48
mjacob Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 18	i don't think i've seen any talk of Digidesign "Eleven" on here. Anyone have experience with it? going to search around ...

26th July 2009	#51
Josh Rose Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 169	I've been using waves GTR a lot lately. I have had the opportunity to try many other amp sims. Prior to GTR, the only one that was convincing to me was Amplitube 2, and the Fender models on Digidesign Eleven. GTR blows them out of the water though. I just finished tracking something with it the other day. With a nice fender american deluxe, it sounded fantastic.

26th July 2009	#54
jbr101 Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Manasquan, NJ Posts: 76 1 Review written	Jumping a little late into this thread, but here's the thing. There's no way a piece of software is going to totally replace the interaction of human playing, string vibration, wood types, differing cable types, pedals, input jack issues, temperature and humidity variables, and all the crazy stuff that happens between the player, amp and guitar (and the amp's surroundings). It just can't happen. There are just too many variables going on for an amp sim to totally replace a real live amp and an engineer who really understands guitar tones and how to make them happen. Yes, there is a technique (defined as: a set of actions repeated over and over for a given situation) involved, contrary to what's been posted, and there's quite a few of them actually, both in tracking and mixdown. Each technique is different depending on gear, circumstances, etc. All that being said, there are instances where amp sims do come into play and work well. The last posting by 58LesPaul really shows the major difference in amp sim vs. amp. I've even seen situations where layering real amps with amp sims worked out really well. The bottom line is that you have to know what you're after tone-wise. If amp sims fit the bill then use them, if they don't, they don't. The same philosophy applies to re-amping as well. There are no rules - only results.

27th July 2009	#56
doncaparker Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,155	I think Insomniaclown has some good insights, but I would add that, if you can sort through all of the options on Revalver MK III, it can give you some good sounds. Some of the missing "air" he experienced might be due to the different cabinet and mic choices that are available. The default varies with the amp chosen, but you can pair any head with any speaker cab, and each speaker cab has a variety of mics that are modeled. I've tinkered with the cabs and mics and gotten dramatically different results without changing the amp or its settings. Also, anybody missing the "air" on Revalver should try adding the R1 digital reverb at the end of the chain. The default is a very subtle room setting, just barely there. Quite nice for adding some "fake reality" with little effort. While the Peavey amps are certainly showcased, I have to say that the Fender and Mesa Boogie amps are also pretty good. Those two amps are very familiar to me, and I think Revalver does a good job of emulating them.

27th July 2009	#57
Mark Kaufman Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,202	The original question wasn't stupid in the least. Amp sims continue to improve, so it's just a matter of time before they equal the real thing. They're getting mighty close. Currently, a good engineer miking a good live amp will win over an amp simulator, hands down. But three years from now? Could well be a whole different ballgame. Never say never.

27th July 2009	#60
corey.schroeder Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 74	Hahaha I love reading everyone argue back and forth about who is real rock producer and what the PROPER way to record guitar is.. To answer the original question posted, you actually got a really nice sound. The tone doesnt sound shallow or over processed like most amp sims. I just got a copy of the new Logic 9 and messed around with the amp modelers a bit.. You can tell these companies are spending tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars researching gear and hiring engineers to duplicate these sounds to almost sound like the real thing. If used tastefully, you can get really nice recordings using these modeled amps. I must admit, there is really no way to beat the sound of a vintage plexi through a telefunken pre.. We've all heard this sound in records for the past 50+ years. It works. But not everyones budget allows them this luxury. I think you got a very useable recording with that amp modeler. If it works for your taste and your clients taste, by all means use it. Im no big time producer, just a fan of good recordings.. Keep up your good work man.