Low-end interfaces/converters

[the kevinator]

Check out my awesome first post...

So I spent several weeks researching which 8-channel A/D converter/FW interface. I decided on the Mackie 400f because I liked the 8 outs for monitoring and the Onyx preamps are fairly good in the price range. SO I get to the music store, and there's one problem; the 400f isn't finished yet and won't ship for quite a while. Guess I didn't research as much as I thought.

So I need this thing this weekend, and the music store is like 45 minutes from my house, so I wanted to pick up something so I could spend the week familiarizing myself with it. All my research out the window, I hasitly chose the MOTU 828mkII. It was closest to the 400f; the Fireface is too expensive, and most other units like the 1082 or the 800r or the Firepod lack the monitoring outs. However, I'm beginning to wonder if I made a bad choice.

Soon after trying the 828 out, I wondered if 2 preamps is going to be enough for me. In the long run, it definitely won't, but in the short term, I have access to a Midas Venice console and a Peavey mixer that I could use for additional preamps. Eventually, I plan to buy outboard preamps, but that's a long way off as I just spent a lot of money on the A/D and software (Vegas), plus mics are a higher priority right now.

Still, I'm thinking of stepping up to the 896HD, simply because it has 8 preamps as opposed to 2.. Can I expect the converters in the 828mkII to be the same as the 896HD? I realize that the 896 can do higher sample rates, but I doubt I'll ever even use 96k and do most of work at 44.1. At the lower smaple rates, will the converters be the same?


Thanks!


Kevin

[I <3 The Beatle]

Kevin,

Not sure about the mic pres, but the converters on the Tascam unit seem to be pretty good.

I know right now sweet water has a $100 rebate (not sure if it's at other stores too) on the FW-1820, which comes stocked with a nice control surface. Check it out here.

I am tempted to buy one even though I know nothing about the mic pres...

If worse comes to worse, return it if you don't like it in a month.

Good luck

[DrDeltaM]

The 896HD is a clear step up from 828mkII, better convertors for sure.
Also, i heard 1st september as planned shipping date for the 400F. Maybe you can trade your 828mkII back in then?

Since you have a Midas, i'd use those pre's over build in pre-amps of any audio interface in that range probably. So having lotsa pre-amps on your audiocard isn't really neededin your case imo.

[the kevinator]

I <3 The Beatle (if that is indeed your real name), one of the features I liked about the Mackie, the MOTU units, and the Fireface is the 8 line outs. With the on-board mixer, I can do 4-5 separate headphone mixes. The Tascam units only have main L-R outs and no on-board mixer.

DrDelta, just to clarify, I don't have a Midas, I do live sound at a small club in town where they use a Midas for FOH. I have access to the place during the day and on off nights, so I can use their preamps for the time being. Obviously, this is not a long-term solution, and I'd feel better knowing I had 8 pres at my disposal.

If the converters were close, I might just stick with the 828. But if its an obvious step up, I might make the upgrade; its $225 difference where I live; that seems like a good investment.

[Enzo Polotso]

the firepod has a line out for every channel (8) plus two main stereo outs.

[Rodney Gene]

I have...

The ONYX FW, MOTU 896HD, RME Fireface 800, and Tascam 1804 here at the studio.

I am going to test (In a non scientific way) the converters and post my findings with a couple of pics as well....Probably in a couple of hours!

I have heard all of these but the RME...(Which is why it is here!!) I am hoping the RME D/A is great!!


Peace and Respect

[theblue1]

Overall, I like my MOTU 828mkII pretty okay (and there wasn't much else in its class when I bought it in early 2004).

BUT, since you mentioned the mic pres -- I have to say that I was greatly disappointed in them. (They were a bit of an afterthought, for me, since I have a handful of low end tube and other pres, and a Mackie VLZ 2404 and like the pres on it pretty okay for general purposes. I like them better than most of my [semi-cheapo] standalones, in fact. An RNP is at the top of my acquisition list, but that's another story.)

The MOTU 828mkII pres are, to me, quite dark, even dull sounding. (Perhaps that was somebody's idea of "warm." Who knows?)

Anyhow... my two bits...

[Jtt]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Overall, I like my MOTU 828mkII pretty okay (and there wasn't much else in its class when I bought it in early 2004).

BUT, since you mentioned the mic pres -- I have to say that I was greatly disappointed in them. (They were a bit of an afterthought, for me, since I have a handful of low end tube and other pres, and a Mackie VLZ 2404 and like the pres on it pretty okay for general purposes. I like them better than most of my [semi-cheapo] standalones, in fact. An RNP is at the top of my acquisition list, but that's another story.)

The MOTU 828mkII pres are, to me, quite dark, even dull sounding. (Perhaps that was somebody's idea of "warm." Who knows?)

Anyhow... my two bits...

I agree.

On dynamic mics the motu pres are barely usable even for talkback. I was surprised that they were that much worse than my old mackie vlz.

On condensors the difference isn't as huge--maybe its an impedence thing. very dull, very lifeless and very small.

Also I've had my 828 mkII for 2 years now, and the led screen burned just out. I don't want to give up my hobby long enough for motu to fix this--and I can (clumsily) deal with everything from the software interface.

J

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Rodney Gene

I am going to test (In a non scientific way) the converters and post my findings with a couple of pics as well....Probably in a couple of hours!

Hey Rodney, try this out if you have the time:

Start with a good sounding track of something with a fast transient and full frequency range (like an acoustic guitar, piano or drum track) and call that track 1.

Now, take track 1 and run it OUT of one of those converters, connect a good short cable between the output and the input of the same converter box. Record that input. Now you have track 2.

Take track 2 and run it out and back into the same converter. Now you have track 3.

Repeat until you get to track 21 (1 plus 20 "new" tracks) and listen to the differences in the tracks from the start and the finish. When you do this, track 21 will have 210 instances of AD and DA conversion.

210 is way more than anyone would ever use, in fact more than 2 or 3 is probably ridiculous. But, over the course of the test (which is a quick test once you set it up, after setup it's just route it and record, route it and record...) you can hear where the transients will start to suffer and by track 21 you might hear more muddiness in the midrange of one converter and less high end in another.

It can tell you a lot about the overall traits of each converter by adding and accenting it over and over again. It's an over the top type of test but hey, it's a true comparison if your levels are matched.

You will need to calibrate the converters so that you don't end up with varying loudness from each. If there are differences (hopefully slight) then you should normalize each file so that volume doesn't become the winner.

This is what I do to test converters that come in. I am often surprised at how good file #21 can sound.

War

[drummin4christ]

I personally would choose the Firepod over any Motu gear. I've never heard anything good about there preamps. I love the clarity of the Firepods pres, and if you don't need ADAT Lightpipe, then the Firepod has everything that these other guys have.

Firepod all the way!!

[George Necola]

I would go in the RME multiface / ADI-8 interface with HDSP-card and buy a mackie or some channel one or goldmike *just for the poor users out there*

[rabidears]

keep the 828 and buy and get something like the onyx. then you have 8 good pres and you will have 16 outs for mixdown should you ever need to mix outside the box