What's my weakest link?

[twopointseventwo]

Long time lurker here. Finally got around to making an account.

The only thing I ever record are male vocals- for everything else, I use VST instruments.

This is my setup: Rode NTK (with Mullard tube) -> Presonus MP20 preamp -> BBE 882i Sonic Maximizer -> Phonic Helix Board 18 Mixer-> Echo Indigo IOx -> Sonar

I put my Rode NTK in my own homade 'porta-booth' (http://www.amazon.com/Porta-Booth-Portable-Sound-Studio/dp/B00151YP18/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1246658855&sr=8-1) type enclosure to help with acoustics and have placed a few pieces of 24" x 24" x 2" acoustic foam on the walls of the room the I record in. I normally mic vocals close up (4"-6").

I was wondering what the weakest link in my signal chain is?

I have to first say that I can get some pretty fantastic sounds from the setup and I am very happy with it. I've spent quite a bit of time learning to get the most out of my gear and have come a long ways. I know there is an old adage that says you shouldn't fix something if it isn't broken, but I can't help but wonder if there is something I am missing out on. I remember there was a time where I was using a Rode NT1-a for vocals and thought it sounded pretty good. However, when I switched to a Rode NTK, I felt the quality of my recordings increased by a tremendous amount! I am just curious what the next step would be to upgrade my studio.

I am most concerned that the weakest link is my phonic helix board (it's some what of a low quality board), but I must mention that it is only used to convert the balanced connection from the 882i to an unbalanced connection for my sound card. I always keep the preamps on this board at unity.


If my phonic board is the weakest link, could someone suggest a better alternative to convert a balanced connection to an unbalanced connection?

I would welcome any comments that would help me get steered in the right direction as to what I should focus on.

Thanks!

dfegad

[John N]

I'm tempted to say that the MP20 is probably your weakest link in the chain, although I'm not sure why you're using a Sonic Maximizer in your vocal chain... kinda thought that was a mix/mastering tool.
I don't see a compressor in your chain either - seems like some gentle compression before going 'into the box' would help smooth vocals over. And yes, if you can find another simple way getting ITB without the mixing board you'll be better off.
Less is more.

The NTK is alright if you don't have a sibilant voice. I had one for several years and tried a few tubes (Mullard, Telefunken, Amperex) and they made a huge improvement in many ways but the mic still remained "eshy". I've recently been fortunate enough to upgrade my mic pres and mics and I'm enjoying the step up: Black Lion Audio 'Auteur' pre and DAV BG1 pre as well as Advanced Audio CM12 LDC and AT4047.

its all about the journey...

[BOWIE]

Mic is good. Preamp is good. I hope you're not using that Sonix Maximizer on everything. I love them but they definitely have a limited range of applications.
If I was in your spot, I'd be looking at getting a good comp. Outboard a/d conversion would normally be a priority but if you're only tracking male vox, it won't matter much. Maybe someone else can comment on the mixer and interface as I don't know much about yours.

[twopointseventwo]

Thank you so much for the excellent comments!

I'll keep my eyes peeled for a compressor and A/D converter.

I use the maximizer occasionally to clear the vocals up. I know there are a lot of mixed feelings on these things. I try not to over do it. I'm thinking I might sell it on craigslist to fund a compressor.

[rty5150]

so what are you recording? music or voiceover? if music, what type of music?

i would kill the BBE and phonic from the chain and get a better converter. it seems like you are trying to make up for things lost in your chain with them. simpler is better, especially for vocals. this is a typical vocal chain:

you
mic
cable
preamp
cable
converter

at times an eq or compressor is after the pre. i don't know of anyone who uses a bbe for recording. i use them live and for bass, but i find them horrible for studio use.
you have a good mic, good pre. how is your room and monitoring? you said you use a pseudo iso booth, but how is the room where you mix? how many types of sources will you record? will drums be part of the equation?
to quote johnny 5 from short circuit, "need more input."

see the constant barrage of variables?

[Weasel9992]

Great advice from Rich and BOWIE. I'd ditch the Sonic Maximizer entirely. The whole chain is entry level, though certainly capable of decent results. I'd tend to side with Rich on room/preamp/mic/converters/monitoring...if you're getting decent results with the little porta-booth thing you're using now, then you'll get fantastic results with a better preamp. I'd skip the outboard comp at this stage.

Frank

[metalfan8806]

depending on what kinda of vocals you are cutting- i would highly suggest using a outboard compressor on the way in. Not cause you cant just use a plug in later..just cause it's a lot easier to have a clean signal going in and I personally find it easier to track and work with later on when its not all over the place.

and yes- i agree with everyone else on the maximizer thing. that should be used more on instruments(and yes i remember you saying that you only use VI, lol)

[twopointseventwo]

I record very simple music.

Most of the time it is a popish/alternative/singer songwriter type song with only vocals and piano (synthogy Ivory).

I suppose the thing I like about keeping things simple is that it is much easier for me to get better sounding mixes. I've tried incorporating larger instrumentations before and it becomes much more difficult to get something that sounds nice. I would rather do something simple and have it sound spectacular than do something more complex and have it sound mediocre. I suppose someone might accuse me of being lazy and not pushing myself to learn to mix better, but these simple mixes suit me fine. All I'm really after is getting a very nice sounding yet simple demos.

As far as converters go, I have an Emu 1212m PCI card with balanced inputs and outputs sitting in my closet. It is supposed to have the same converters used on higher end protools setups- although I'm not sure how these claims translate into practical quality. The only problem is that my desktop computer is very lacking in processing power, much less than my laptop. I might look into ordering a more powerful processor and make my desktop my new DAW so I can use the 1212m card with it.

I'm thinking I might have caught in to some hype with the BBE... oh well, live and learn.

My monitoring is... well... probably not great.

I use Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 speakers, which have gotten great praise from music enthusiasts but probably fall short for studio applications.

The room I record in is also the room I mix in. It has a few 24"x24"x2" acoustic panels in it, but not much other than that.

It's probably not an ideal situation for mixing and monitoring. I think I might have let myself get away with this setup because my mixes are so simple that they don't require as much attention, but maybe I'm just fooling myself.

I do appreciate the help though! I am still kind of new to a lot of this. I've slowly grown from a radio shack dynamic mic and radio shack mixer to the setup I have now and can tell I've probably made some bad choices along the way.

[rty5150]

get that emu out of the closet. get a few corner traps for taming those rogue bass modes by softening the 90 degree angles in the room and lots of low end absorption. then get decent monitors and a lastly a super nice pre. a dual channel if you can afford it. mainly to resend your synth tracks back through for a lot more life, then use it on your vox. if you can't afford it, one great channel for your vocal. i seriously doubt you need a comp right now, especially with really good mic technique, but just to get your feet wet, an RNC will do great and on the cheap. they sound great and best of all, they work so good, you don't even realize that they are working!

[Weasel9992]

The *only* issue I have with a compressor in this particular case is that it seems like you might be kinda new at this...please correct me if I'm wrong...and if that's true, tracking with compression will probably cause more problems than it will solve.

Frank

[9th Ward Records]

the Sonic Maximizer is bar far the weakest link

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by Weasel9992

The *only* issue I have with a compressor in this particular case is that it seems like you might be kinda new at this...please correct me if I'm wrong...and if that's true, tracking with compression will probably cause more problems than it will solve.

Frank

unless your "talent" has crappy mic technique. keeps the signal from clipping if they are pretty inconsistent. i usually use a light 4:1 to keep things under control, threshold pretty high to just where they pop out of their normal range. most good singers i don't use compression on tracking. i'll just run the level a tad lower and let them work the mic.
but, yes, it can cause problems on the front end. although automation can make up for a little of this in post.

[LucianX]

Hey 2Point, you've gone on a very similar journey to me - I started off with a Rode NT1A - presonus tubepre - into A Boss BR-900, then ported over into a Daw - Cubase - based system.

I've been ugrading on way and you makes mistakes every now and then, I think you have to budget 20% on mistakes. I made a big one recently splashing out on U87 and UA Solo 610 - was actually a step down from my NT1A, tubepre Boss set up. Just horrible and muddy. Managed to return them luckily and get a refund.

My latest set up is Rode K2/ C414 B-XLII (gonna let them duke it out) into Great River ME-1NV - into an RME Fireface 400 - bypassing the internal amps - into Cubase 5. And I've just built my second, new and improved home made porta booth.

One thing I'm curious about, is you mentioning converting an balanced signal to an unbalanced singal, as I'm going to be using an XLR output on the Great River to the Jack input of the RME, and I've been wondering if this is gonna cause any problems, and I'm better off going jack to jack?

Do you post your music anywhere 2point, it's always important to get feedback on your songs and mixes I think.

Lucian