recording a singer?

[Petelebu]

hi all, i want to know whats your way to record singers, what tools you use for soft singers and what tools you use for loud singers. as well as the size of the space you think is apropriate for soft or loud singers, preamps etc, thanks.

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

hi all, i want to know whats your way to record singers, what tools you use for soft singers and what tools you use for loud singers. as well as the size of the space you think is apropriate for soft or loud singers, preamps etc, thanks.

mic and pre selection come down to the type of singer. voice and style are the main variables.

for mics, room comes into play. good sounding room, LDC. crappy sounding room, dynamic.

loud inconsistent singers get a compressor in the chain. maybe not for a singer with good mic technique.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

hi all, i want to know whats your way to record singers, what tools you use for soft singers and what tools you use for loud singers. as well as the size of the space you think is apropriate for soft or loud singers, preamps etc, thanks.

As mentioned above, there are so many varables. It's good to come to places like this to learn what generally works, then you have to put in endless hours discovering how to develop the sound as you imagine it in your head. There are few rules and the equipment itself makes little difference until you really get famililar with the process. I know that's not what you wanted to hear but after recording for 14 years (which is really nothing compared to many here), I find that most of my knowledge was not gained in school or on a forum, but from just doing it.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

As mentioned above, there are so many varables. It's good to come to places like this to learn what generally works, then you have to put in endless hours discovering how to develop the sound as you imagine it in your head. There are few rules and the equipment itself makes little difference until you really get famililar with the process. I know that's not what you wanted to hear but after recording for 14 years (which is really nothing compared to many here), I find that most of my knowledge was not gained in school or on a forum, but from just doing it.

Same here, there are so many variables that can come into play, I think it's a trial and error process where you eventually learn to use certain tools for certain situations.

What is your budget? About the size of the room, it really depends on the mic you're using, and how treated the room is. Just as long as it's not a small closet, any treated room will do.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Same here, there are so many variables that can come into play, I think it's a trial and error process where you eventually learn to use certain tools for certain situations.

Absolutely. Experimentation is key. After getting too "set in my ways", my new kick is to go against everything I know by using the "wrong" mic, in the wrong position, etc and I am amazed by all the new sounds that I was previously blind to.

[Petelebu]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

As mentioned above, there are so many varables. It's good to come to places like this to learn what generally works, then you have to put in endless hours discovering how to develop the sound as you imagine it in your head. There are few rules and the equipment itself makes little difference until you really get famililar with the process. I know that's not what you wanted to hear but after recording for 14 years (which is really nothing compared to many here), I find that most of my knowledge was not gained in school or on a forum, but from just doing it.

well actually thats some of the things i wanted to hear lol.

[Petelebu]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Same here, there are so many variables that can come into play, I think it's a trial and error process where you eventually learn to use certain tools for certain situations.

What is your budget? About the size of the room, it really depends on the mic you're using, and how treated the room is. Just as long as it's not a small closet, any treated room will do.

yeah man i heard the small closet thingy for dry vocals, what a non sense.

[rty5150]

i hate closets for vocals. not enough absorption in a small space. i would rather track vocals in a decent room with more absorbers. plus comfort level...

[Petelebu]

well to all, the equipment im using, ma-200, grace 101 or solo 610, 705 equivalent now im worried about the room size is a 10 by 10 by 8 high, thats my main worry, oh i have a guitar cab here aswell and i dont like the sound coming out of it trhough the solo 620 and a 57, any tips for that?

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

well to all, the equipment im using, ma-200, grace 101 or solo 610, 705 equivalent now im worried about the room size is a 10 by 10 by 8 high, thats my main worry, oh i have a guitar cab here aswell and i dont like the sound coming out of it trhough the solo 620 and a 57, any tips for that?

deaden the crap out of the closet and put the guitar cab in there if your recording high gain stuff. for guitars, no room is better than a bad room.
half of the model numbers you stated don't make sense.
the 705 being a ribbon?
620....solo 610?


i wouldn't use the solo 610 for guitars, but that's just me, especially with a ribbon. have you tried micing both the guitar cab with the 57 and a ribbon adn blending the 2?

props on the ma-200.
that is my main vocal mic and it continues to surprise me with how great it sounds.

[vonrichter]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

hi all, i want to know whats your way to record singers, what tools you use for soft singers and what tools you use for loud singers. as well as the size of the space you think is apropriate for soft or loud singers, preamps etc, thanks.

It depends on the song and the singer.

If by 'size of the space' you mean the physical room in real life, chances are you're talking small home studio living rooms and bedrooms. Your best bet in that case is to kill the vocal recording space as much as possible. Boxy early reflections will really make for a "amateur home recording!" sound. There are a lot of things you can try on a budget, the classic being to just hang some blankets across mic stands.

At the low end, don't worry too much about preamps, just find something clean... avoid the el-cheapo "tube" preamps because they are not true tube circuits, and are generally quite muddy and unuseable. Work on getting some kind of usable vocal recording space, then start researching microphone types and what they typically do for different kinds of sources.

[Petelebu]

Originally Posted by rty5150

deaden the crap out of the closet and put the guitar cab in there if your recording high gain stuff. for guitars, no room is better than a bad room.
half of the model numbers you stated don't make sense.
the 705 being a ribbon?
620....solo 610?


i wouldn't use the solo 610 for guitars, but that's just me, especially with a ribbon. have you tried micing both the guitar cab with the 57 and a ribbon adn blending the 2?

props on the ma-200.
that is my main vocal mic and it continues to surprise me with how great it sounds.

705 mineral fiber on the walls, sm57 and the grace maybe? i tried that combination to and didnt like it either
by the way wile recording the cab on with a 57, should i use a room mic or not?

[Petelebu]

Originally Posted by vonrichter

It depends on the song and the singer.

If by 'size of the space' you mean the physical room in real life, chances are you're talking small home studio living rooms and bedrooms. Your best bet in that case is to kill the vocal recording space as much as possible. Boxy early reflections will really make for a "amateur home recording!" sound. There are a lot of things you can try on a budget, the classic being to just hang some blankets across mic stands.

At the low end, don't worry too much about preamps, just find something clean... avoid the el-cheapo "tube" preamps because they are not true tube circuits, and are generally quite muddy and unuseable. Work on getting some kind of usable vocal recording space, then start researching microphone types and what they typically do for different kinds of sources.

well the walls are are almost totally covered with 705 mineral fiber panels the floor is carpeted and the roof is drywall. the preamps i have solo 610 and i dont consider it a cheapo preamp, remember jim morrison and frank sinatra used them.

[vonrichter]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

wile recording the cab on with a 57, should i use a room mic or not?

The only way to find out is to try it. Does your room sound good to your ears in general when just playing or talking in it?

[rty5150]

would getting a ribbon be out of the question?

what don't you like about your guitar sound? the 57 may be the problem. maybe and i5 or fathead may be your answer.

[vonrichter]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

the preamps i have solo 610 and i dont consider it a cheapo preamp, remember jim morrison and frank sinatra used them.

It should be perfectly capable of doing the job.

[Petelebu]

Originally Posted by vonrichter

The only way to find out is to try it. Does your room sound good to your ears in general when just playing or talking in it?

you know what? now that you mention it, it sounds a little muddy compared with the non treated ones in my house , funny uh?
maybe too many high frequency absorbers?

[Petelebu]

Originally Posted by rty5150

would getting a ribbon be out of the question?

what don't you like about your guitar sound? the 57 may be the problem. maybe and i5 or fathead may be your answer.

well what i dont like about my electric guitar sounds basically is the distortion, clean it sounds as it was supposed to but i add the plexitube pedal for distortion and it just doesnt sound right on the recordings, but when im just playing sounds great, i heavent tried with a beta 87a i got because it is designed for vocals and i think it will sound extremely bright, even if it is the only small condenser i have, and what i dont like about the sound, it sounds just too harsh.

[vonrichter]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

you know what? now that you mention it, it sounds a little muddy compared with the non treated ones in my house , funny uh?.

You might want to dampen the reflective ceiling (a cloud assembly of some kind would be nice), and either pull up some carpet and replace with wood floors, or put down a piece of plywood or something under drums/guitars/etc to make the floor more reflective. Hard floor and deadish ceiling always sounds better in my opinion than hard ceiling and dead floor.

Do you have any bass trapping in the corners? How big is the room?

You mentioned you had the walls covered... maybe you should try some more reflective material to cover some of your traps to bring back some of the high end.

[Petelebu]

Originally Posted by vonrichter

You might want to dampen the reflective ceiling (a cloud assembly of some kind would be nice), and either pull up some carpet and replace with wood floors, or put down a piece of plywood or something under drums/guitars/etc to make the floor more reflective. Hard floor and deadish ceiling always sounds better in my opinion than hard ceiling and dead floor.

Do you have any bass trapping in the corners? How big is the room?


You mentioned you had the walls covered... maybe you should try some more reflective material to cover some of your traps to bring back some of the high end.

the room is a 10ft by 10 ft by 8ft high, and no i dont have any bass traps, that may be the culprit uh?.
how imprtant are bass traps on a small room anyway?

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

the room is a 10ft by 10 ft by 8ft high, and no i dont have any bass traps, that may be the culprit uh?.
how imprtant are bass traps on a small room anyway?

way more important than broadband absorbers.

[vonrichter]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

how imprtant are bass traps on a small room anyway?

My room isn't much different than yours, and when I built a bunch of traps it made a huge improvement.

[Chris Lago]

If you don't want to invest in crazy acoustic deadening for vocals, then I suggest you get the sm7b, just match it with the grace and you're good to go.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by rty5150

i wouldn't use the solo 610 for guitars

I sure would. I have a 610 that's pretty much dedicated to electric guitars. I greatly prefer it to any other preamp I've used on high-gain amps. Tames the fizz and harshness and puts a big, rich, harmonic glow on the guitars if you set the gain right.
Everyone's got their own style though.

Regarding room treatment, my favorite method in a small room is getting plastic diffusors and stuffing them with bass trapping material. This way, you get your bass under control while keeping the room alive and making it sound larger than it really is. I'm big on getting nice early reflections as it's one of the biggest problems in a home-studio.

[Petelebu]

well thanks to all that tried to help me out with the issue, seems lile i have to try buying some bass traps to see if they make a difference.

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

I sure would. I have a 610 that's pretty much dedicated to electric guitars. I greatly prefer it to any other preamp I've used on high-gain amps. Tames the fizz and harshness and puts a big, rich, harmonic glow on the guitars if you set the gain right.
Everyone's got their own style though.

Regarding room treatment, my favorite method in a small room is getting plastic diffusors and stuffing them with bass trapping material. This way, you get your bass under control while keeping the room alive and making it sound larger than it really is. I'm big on getting nice early reflections as it's one of the biggest problems in a home-studio.

your right, bowie, in his case with a 57, i would too. the nasally tone from a 57 would be toned a bit with the 610. with a ribbon, not at all.

[vonrichter]

Originally Posted by Petelebu

well thanks to all that tried to help me out with the issue, seems lile i have to try buying some bass traps to see if they make a difference.

Personally, I think it's not a big issue with close miced vocals. Just hang some blankets and create a temporary deadspace.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by vonrichter

Personally, I think it's not a big issue with close miced vocals. Just hang some blankets and create a temporary deadspace.

I think the biggest issue can be flutter echoes really.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by rty5150

your right, bowie, in his case with a 57, i would too. the nasally tone from a 57 would be toned a bit with the 610. with a ribbon, not at all.

Yea, I could definitely see that being a possibility.

[aclarson]

Originally Posted by chrislago

If you don't want to invest in crazy acoustic deadening for vocals, then I suggest you get the sm7b, just match it with the grace and you're good to go.

You could make a lot of treatment for the price of an SM7b.

I think it's important to have either way, it's just MORE noticeable with a condenser. But I would at least put something around the mic to kill flutter echo.

Originally Posted by rty5150

way more important than broadband absorbers.

That depends how broadband, right? Often the term 'bass trap' is used interchangeably with 'broadband absorber' if you're referring to the Ethan/GIK type of OC703/mineral wool wrapped in burlap with no facing. I assume this is because they do treat bass frequencies, as well as others. This type of broadband absorber would work. But if you're talking about like thick foam that has no absoptive properties below say 300 Hz, then that's no good.