ART Digital/Gold MPA users. Need something clarified.

[Janesaid2me]

This thing definitely heats up alot....at least in my opinion...compared to other none tube preamps i own...if it were me...id leave a space on top of it to vent some of that hot air...

[wirenut]

I have an MPA gold with NOS tubes in the top of my rack. No gaps. Also a pro vla right under it. Yea it gets hot however I run it for hours. n fact when it's hot it has the warmest sound. No pun intended.I let it cook for at least 45 minutes before I use it. Even though this is one of the cheapest preamps I own I use it on almost every session for something.

Wirenut.

[zippsinc]

Thanks you both for the heat advice. Much appreciated.

I may leave a screw's worth of gap between any of the ARTs I intend getting. However, I reckon I'll firstly try them out in simulated rack conditions for an hour or so to see how they fair.

Cheers for the opinions.

Any of the Digital MPA users able to chip in regarding the digital functions I asked about?


Regards

Zipps

[staticwhitesound]

I have a Digital MPA. It DOES get hot. Unless there's some very serious reason that requires you not to leave a space above, I would recommend following the instruction in the manual. It can't hurt to leave the space, so if it *could* hurt to not leave it, it's a no-brainer to me, as inconvenient as it is (and it is inconvenient to me & my setup also).

I don't use the ADAT i/o on it. I use the S/PDIF i/o with the rca-like jacks, not using optical. Don't know if that's much help.

[Weasel9992]

Yeah, it gets hot. I have at least a 1RU vent space between all of my preamps.

Frank

[David C.]

Not sure about the ADAT output on the ART, but seems like ADAT recorders only ran at 48K sample rate. Don't know if this is true for ADAT outputs on other gear or not.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by David C.

Not sure about the ADAT output on the ART, but seems like ADAT recorders only ran at 48K sample rate. Don't know if this is true for ADAT outputs on other gear or not.

I don't think it's locked at 48Khz...I'm pretty sure it's variable up to 96Khz.

Frank

[zippsinc]

Thanks guys

I'm likely gonna go with at least a screw hole's worth of space between any ARTs I get. If I feel this isn't enough, I may get a quiet fan behind the rack to blast a bit of gentle air through periodically.

Interesting...others on another forum have suggested that the ARTs do not use the tubes with enough voltage to cause concern.

Regarding ADAT. The Digital MPA only has a dial on the front panel for choosing AES/EBU or S/PDIF. I guess going ADAT means you're not using either of these protocols.

Put it this way, I would be disabling S/PDIF by pressing in the front panel's Optical Switch, thus engaging ADAT and ADAT ain't S/PDIF or AES/EBU. Therefore, this means for certain that there is not a sample rate selector on the ART Digital MPA for ADAT.

I know that ARTs only transmit their signal on channels 1&2 via ADAT, leaving 3-8 for anything that arrives at the optical input, which I won't be using in my case. However, I have a feeling that because the two ART channels are limited to ADAT channels 1&2, I'll be using 44.1kHz/48kHz by default. But which of the two? HHmmmmmm

I'm just wondering if this has implications for my selected sample rate in Sonar?

I'm currently awaiting a response from ART by the way. They quickly and informatively responded to my last question regarding BNC termination, which was incidentally, that you must terminate the THRU on the last daisy chained (or single) unit with a 75 Ohm BNC Terminator Cap (i.e. no need for a T-junction adapter on the Input). This termination has to be so whether you use 1, 2 or 3 units.


Regards

Zipps

[staticwhitesound]

Originally Posted by zippsinc

Thanks guys
Interesting...others on another forum have suggested that the ARTs do not use the tubes with enough voltage to cause concern.

ART has a lot of cheaper units that don't use the tubes with much voltage. The MPA Gold and Digital MPA line actually do use the tubes with quite a bit of voltage which is why people around here like them (myself included).

Originally Posted by zippsinc

Thanks guys
I know that ARTs only transmit their signal on channels 1&2 via ADAT, leaving 3-8 for anything that arrives at the optical input, which I won't be using in my case. However, I have a feeling that because the two ART channels are limited to ADAT channels 1&2, I'll be using 44.1kHz/48kHz by default. But which of the two? HHmmmmmm
I'm just wondering if this has implications for my selected sample rate in Sonar?

Have you thought about going with a different unit for the ADAT i/o? I mean you could get considerably more channels by going with a MOTU 8Pre or one of those Presonus Digimax units or something, for around the same price as the ART Digital MPA (well, give or take another $100 I guess). Currently I'm using the 8 Pre for my ADAT and the Digital MPA for my S/PDIF i/o, for my EMU interface, so (together with my two analog channels) I've got 12 channels. Just a thought.

[zippsinc]

Originally Posted by staticwhitesound

ART has a lot of cheaper units that don't use the tubes with much voltage. The MPA Gold and Digital MPA line actually do use the tubes with quite a bit of voltage which is why people around here like them (myself included).

Ah...so the MPAs are on the money regarding tube usage then. Nice to know this. Does this mean they aren't starved plate design then?

Originally Posted by staticwhitesound

Have you thought about going with a different unit for the ADAT i/o? <snip>

Interesting...How do the pres in the Motu compare to the ARTs? My other consideration was Mackie Onyx 800r but someone put me off the Mackie by telling me horror stories about the pres being bland and dying off one by one on theirs. Hopefully an isolated incident.


Regards

Zipps

[staticwhitesound]

Originally Posted by zippsinc

Ah...so the MPAs are on the money regarding tube usage then. Nice to know this. Does this mean they aren't starved plate design then?

That is correct - these aren't starved plate.

Originally Posted by zippsinc

Interesting...How do the pres in the Motu compare to the ARTs? My other consideration was Mackie Onyx 800r but someone put me off the Mackie by telling me horror stories about the pres being bland and dying off one by one on theirs. Hopefully an isolated incident.

I like the MOTU. It's pres are totally uncolored and the ART ones definitely add a little something I like to the signal so they are definitely different. I use my MOTU mostly just for tracking drums and haven't had problems with how it sounds, although again, it doesn't ADD anything nice to the signal - what you put in is pretty much what you get out.

I thought people around here loved Mackie's Onyx series, but maybe I missed something. The pres being bland sounds like a familiar complaint about the old line of Mackie units and boards, not the Onyx series, b/c the new ones have upgraded pres that I believe people have a pretty high opinion of typically, but I might be mistaken. I don't have any first hand experience with their stuff.

If you don't need those additional 6 tracks via ADAT (2 vs. 8) and won't anytime in the foreseeable future (if you're not planning on recording full bands for instance), then that's cool, no reason to get an 8 channel ADAT unit. If you're willing to spend another $400-600 on an ADAT unit there are many options you should thoroughly check into. I'd say, just check out that ART unit and see what you think of it before you make any decison about buying or not buying a 2nd one.

[zippsinc]

Cheers staticwhitesound

You've given me some food for thought. The motu 8pre is way cheaper then an RME Octamic which was one consideration way back.

You're possobly correct about the mackies. It was a previous generation mixer I was told about. However, these were also presented as "boutique pre" just as the current Onyx range is. I still quite fancy an Onyx 800r.

I'll see how I get on with the ART Digital MPA.


Thanks for the input everyone.

Zipps

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by zippsinc

Cheers staticwhitesound

You've given me some food for thought. The motu 8pre is way cheaper then an RME Octamic which was one consideration way back.

You're possobly correct about the mackies. It was a previous generation mixer I was told about. However, these were also presented as "boutique pre" just as the current Onyx range is. I still quite fancy an Onyx 800r.

I'll see how I get on with the ART Digital MPA.


Thanks for the input everyone.

Zipps

Make sure you put NOS tubes in it too!

[hello people]

My ART MPA Gold runs no hotter than my Presonus Firebox. Definately does not run outrageously hot for me.

[analog modeling]

it runs very hot for me....i leave 2 screws of space on top of the dmpa and 1 screw on top of the pro vla.

[zippsinc]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Make sure you put NOS tubes in it too!

What types of tubes are recommended and how easy are they to swap?

Thanks to everyone for their input.


Zipps

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by zippsinc

What types of tubes are recommended and how easy are they to swap?

Thanks to everyone for their input.


Zipps

I'd say Nos Telefunkens and Mullards, It's very easy, unscrew the top of the unit, twist the tube caps and remove the tube, insert the new one and voila!

[zippsinc]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I'd say Nos Telefunkens and Mullards, It's very easy, unscrew the top of the unit, twist the tube caps and remove the tube, insert the new one and voila!

Thanks Chris

Which type of tube is best between a 12AT7 and 12AX7A?

Anywhere in particular I should be looking to buy them from?


Regards

Zipps

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by zippsinc

Which type of tube is best between a 12AT7 and 12AX7A?

The unit was designed for 12AX7s. If you need more headroom and can live with less gain, 12AT7s work well. Most 12AX7s tend to be a little more "pushed" and fuller-sounding than 12AT7s. Keep in mind that a lot of it varies by brand. As Chris mentioned, Telefunkens and vintage Mullards are great choices. There are many other good ones as well, depending what you're looking for. Teles and Mules are the most well-known so they are priced a bit higher.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by zippsinc

Thanks Chris

Which type of tube is best between a 12AT7 and 12AX7A?

Anywhere in particular I should be looking to buy them from?


Regards

Zipps

Bowie is definitely the right person to talk to, as he is way more knowledgeable on tubes than any of us on GS!

[staticwhitesound]

Originally Posted by zippsinc

Thanks Chris

Which type of tube is best between a 12AT7 and 12AX7A?

Anywhere in particular I should be looking to buy them from?


Regards

Zipps

Swapping out the tubes will certainly help you get a nice and different sound, but don't think that you HAVE to swap the tubes in order to get a good sound. I'd recommend at least trying it for a little while with the stock tubes. That way, when you do swap the tubes you know why you did it and can really evaluate what you like and what you don't, notice the differences, etc. Just my thoughts.

[zippsinc]

Hi folks

Thanks for that. I'll bear all that in mind and use the stock tubes first.

I have a couple important questions for the Digital MPA users.

When using SPDIF and ADAT I have to crank the Input Gain to the max, engage the +20db switch and have the Digital Level cranked to the max in order to get the same oomph as the Analogue settings with Input Gain to the max, the +20db switch enagaged with the Analogue Level sitting at around 1 o'clock. Is this required difference in Output settings between Analogue and Digital normal?

Another question. How are you folks terminating your BNC Word Clocks? I was told I had to put a 75 Ohm Terminator Cap on the THRU. I can't get hold of one just now due to unavailability (hard to find in UK) so I have to wait until 10th July. Therefore, for the time being I'm merely using a 75 Ohm BNC cable from my audio interface's WC Output to the WC Input on the ART, using my interface as Master. Problem is, I'm getting a dreadful ground loop on the left hand channel of the ART when this BNC cable is connected. It only affects the left channel and also affects this channel when using the Analogue ouputs too. The ground hum disappears completely on diconnecting the BNC cable from the ART's WC Input. Do you think there's a problem with my ART DMPA? Or could the ground loop be due to lack of proper termination on the BNC cable?

Could someone syncing via BNC also using proper termination perhaps please try and see if lack of a terminator on the THRU causes these same issues on the left channel?

Or, if you're successfully using the left channel of the digital section on your ART DMPA, syncing via BNC without a terminator on your THRU, then please let me know.


Edited due to having solved some issues via trouble shooting.


Zipps

[Meat&Beer]

I love my MPA Gold. I have a NOS RCA, and Mesa tube in it, (I like my 421 u-5 on the RCA and a 57 on Mesa) and love the outcome for distorted guitar. I have a guy I go to for modding and upgrading some gear and this one hasnt been touched other than the tubes. WELL worth just buying it new, I think I paid $250 brand new to my door. With the plate voltage on high for vocals, greatness. DI for bass or whathaveyou, also very sweet. Budget pre of the gods imo.

[RTR]

Originally Posted by staticwhitesound

Swapping out the tubes will certainly help you get a nice and different sound, but don't think that you HAVE to swap the tubes in order to get a good sound. I'd recommend at least trying it for a little while with the stock tubes. That way, when you do swap the tubes you know why you did it and can really evaluate what you like and what you don't, notice the differences, etc. Just my thoughts.

+1..I swapped the tubes but put one stock tube back in..It sounds great, better than the nos for some thing's...don't underestimate the stock tubes..most people don't even try to work with them, they just spend $80.00 on a nos tube when it is really unnecessary
PS. Yes I have samples of this..cuz Im sure that question was comming..right chris?

[offthewallstudio]

Originally Posted by Janesaid2me

This thing definitely heats up alot....at least in my opinion...compared to other none tube preamps i own...if it were me...id leave a space on top of it to vent some of that hot air...

this is a tube amp... it has one for each side