Best Budget Mics - My Recommendations

[Michael_Joly]

RODE mics have come up a bit in this thread - here's an interesting factoid.

As most of you know, the NT1a is a very quiet mic using surface mount components. This morning I was working on two NT1a mics, when I disassembled them I was quite surprised to see a Polypropylene (high quality) capacitor replacing a surface mount cap in the critical capsule-to-FET location in the earlier serial number mic.

The earlier NT1 mic with its Jim William's designed circuit used all thru-hole components - and high quality ones at that. Obviously someone at RODE felt keeping at least that one high quality "thru hole" component on an otherwise fully surface mount board was worth the installation effort - sort of a "factory installed mod". Similarly I've seen some MXL v67 mics with a Polypropylene cap in the same circuit position and some signal path electrolytics bypassed with metal film caps. So to a certain extent manufacturers are aware of the relationship between signal path component quality and audio quality - but it appears its too expensive to maintain a committment to the former.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

RODE mics have come up a bit in this thread - here's an interesting factoid.

As most of you know, the NT1a is a very quiet mic using surface mount components. This morning I was working on two NT1a mics, when I disassembled them I was quite surprised to see a Polypropylene (high quality) capacitor replacing a surface mount cap in the critical capsule-to-FET location in the earlier serial number mic.

The earlier NT1 mic with its Jim William's designed circuit used all thru-hole components - and high quality ones at that. Obviously someone at RODE felt keeping at least that one high quality "thru hole" component on an otherwise fully surface mount board was worth the installation effort - sort of a "factory installed mod". Similarly I've seen some MXL v67 mics with a Polypropylene cap in the same circuit position and some signal path electrolytics bypassed with metal film caps. So to a certain extent manufacturers are aware of the relationship between signal path component quality and audio quality - but it appears its too expensive to maintain a committment to the former.

boy - whoever was on the assembly line THAT day must have had their paycheques docked a few bucks! :-)

[guitarmax_99]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

RODE mics have come up a bit in this thread - here's an interesting factoid.

As most of you know, the NT1a is a very quiet mic using surface mount components. This morning I was working on two NT1a mics, when I disassembled them I was quite surprised to see a Polypropylene (high quality) capacitor replacing a surface mount cap in the critical capsule-to-FET location in the earlier serial number mic.

The earlier NT1 mic with its Jim William's designed circuit used all thru-hole components - and high quality ones at that. Obviously someone at RODE felt keeping at least that one high quality "thru hole" component on an otherwise fully surface mount board was worth the installation effort - sort of a "factory installed mod". Similarly I've seen some MXL v67 mics with a Polypropylene cap in the same circuit position and some signal path electrolytics bypassed with metal film caps. So to a certain extent manufacturers are aware of the relationship between signal path component quality and audio quality - but it appears its too expensive to maintain a committment to the former.

So I take it you prefer the earlier NT-1 to the contemporary NT-1A construction-wise? Have you compared how they sound against eachother?

BTW, do you have a mod for the NT-1? I currently own one and it isn't seeing that much action.

[Michael_Joly]

Changing from the stock surface mount capsule-to-FET to a high quality part (as I do in my NT1a mods) does make the top end sweeter and less strident as the clips here show. There was a reason Jim Williams chose the parts he did for his design of the NT1 - sonic surperiority. But both the NT1 and NT1a are nearly identical once modified because they end up with the same headbasket, same capsule and similar flat-response cirucit (though the NT1a is a few dB quieter).

[adamboon]

I'm thinking of getting a couple of super-cheap SDC's to tinker around with

On my list so far are these MXL's:
990 603 604 993 v67n 990s

They all cost me about the same, and I'm keen to "mod-the-hell" out of them. Which one is going to result in the best end product?

Adam

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by adamboon

I'm thinking of getting a couple of super-cheap SDC's to tinker around with

On my list so far are these MXL's:
990 603 604 993 v67n 990s

They all cost me about the same, and I'm keen to "mod-the-hell" out of them. Which one is going to result in the best end product?

Adam

You've listed five small diaphragm mics that all use the same basic capsule but have slightly different circuits.

The 990s is the side address, stereo version of the 990 that uses the same SDC capsule as all the other mics discussed here. The 603 and 604 are the same except the 604 has roll-off and pad switches plus an omni capsule. The 993 is very similar to the 604. The v67n is similar to the 603 except it has a transformer output and the 990 is a side-address SDC.

I'm assuming you're talking about a DIY mod. If so, I'd recommend the 990 because its the easiest to work on because the PCB is larger and it requires less extensive physical modification. The large headbasket of this mic (and thus largely open chamber behind the backplate) eliminates the small chamber / small vent issue found in the pencil style mics that causes a pronounced peak at 8kHz. This problem can be corrected in the pencil mics by body vent enlargement - the 990 on the other hand does not require this treatment.

So in the 990, it comes down to upgrading the capsule-to-FET coupling cap from a ceramic disc to your favorite high quality part, upgrading the FET (and re-biasing) to something faster like Jim William's preferred J305 (I prefer a different, but also low-capacitive load FET), increasing the size of the interstage coupling caps to extend bass response, changing the output transistor pair to lower noise devices, converting the headbasket to a single layer to reduce internal reflection coloration, removing the wire mesh screen found in front of the capsule diaphragm to eliminate another source of transient response degradation - and, if you're really adventurous, eliminating diaphragm set-back coloration and front edge diffraction coloration by re-machining the capsule housing.

[adamboon]

wow... fast!

I didn't realize the 990 was USB, (or that the 990S was side-entry)

If I were to limit it to just Pencils's, like 604 993 and v67n what are your thoughts for the most potential?

and in a separate issue I assume the AT ATM450 would outperform any amount of mods done on a 990s?

[hgen]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Just spent a few minutes doing my monthly 'budget mic search' over at Musician's Friend. Spotted some price drops on some of my favorites mics to recommned because they are better than just Ok right out of the box and because they make great low-cost mod'ing platforms for those of you with a DIY bent.

The NADY SCM-800 is now $40.95. Same '84-inspired capsule as the popular MCA SP-1. I actually like the SCM-800 more because it has a very small headbasket that can be hammered into an Oktava MK-219 shape for a little more lower midrange push. Keep the stock small diaphragm capsule in place or swap in an LDC. Now that the MCA SP-1 is up to $49.95 the SCM-800 is cheapest cardioid-only mod platform I know of.

The NADY CM-90 SDC is now $45.95. Same '84-inspired capsule as above. The least expensive pencil-type SDC with potential. Slotted capsule grille exacerbates sibilance unless mod'd though.

The MXL 990 is now $49.99. Guess what? yep, same '84-inspired capsule as above mics. Don't see the need to spend $10 more than the SCM-800 unless you need carrying case.

The MXL 990s is $69.99. Good value for a stereo mic using two of the '84-inspired capsules.

Away from MF while looking for LDC mics, I found the three-pattern CAD GXL3000 for $98 at a place called "Mary's Music Supply". Typically this is the lowest price three-pattern mic available and hovers around $119. Uses the typically bright K67-type capsule. This is my favorite FET / Transformer-coupled mic platform to upgrade because of the low initial cost.

There are a thousand low buget mics out there. But you won't find any better deals than these for mics that are 1.) more than just usable right out of the box and 2) can go the distance with you during a carreer with some TLC in the form of mods.

Best Budget Mic Recommendations Here....
OktavaMod - Shop

[1ManBand]

lol hgen is crazy!! u go hgennn bring them downnnn lollolololol

[1ManBand]

hgen what tube LDC mic would you recommend under 750$ because i have my sights set on the 460 modded by M JOLY HAHA

[hgen]

Originally Posted by 1ManBand

hgen what tube LDC mic would you recommend under 750$ because i have my sights set on the 460 modded by M JOLY HAHA

What an embarrassment he is!! Fancy starting a thread with the only intention is to ram his mic mods down your throats!!

These are the mics he recommends you buy. OktavaMod - Shop

The exact same mics he modifies for his livelihood.

He's only using this Forum as a launch pad for his products. I got every right to point that out!

[reddirt]

"He's only using this Forum as a launch pad for his products. I got every right to point that out"

Yes, you've made your point .

Cheers, Ross

[meestro]

hgen, there is a reason why the thread says 'my recommendations', and the mics he is accustomed to modifying are the ones that he has personal experience with...Rather than think ill of the situation, which you have absolutely no reason to, take it as the rest of this forum has, and gain much researched knowledge/clarity from it.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by adamboon

...I were to limit it to just Pencils's, like 604 993 and v67n what are your thoughts for the most potential?

and in a separate issue I assume the AT ATM450 would outperform any amount of mods done on a 990s?

re: 604, 993, v67n etc - they all offer the same potential, because they all have the same capsule, body vent and circuit limitations. Now if you want to talk about "best value", then the Apex 185 with both cardioid and omni capsules from Front End Audio for $49 is it.

re: ATM450 - I have not heard this mic so I can't answer your question. But I like the side-address design (like the Josephson E22) which allows the back side of the cardiod capsule to function with less restriction than what is typically seen in slotted-body pencil mic. However, the ATM450 is an electret condenser, appears to use a Transsound cartridge, and the Transsounds I've heard (haven't heard all, btw) have been papery and sibilant due to the use a front-edge HF resonator.

[adamboon]

Thanks Michael,

I value your opinion, and consider your advise to be very useful.

I think those other guys should grow up a little. I don't see where Michael has suggested I throw money his way. I probably will though, as I think one of his 012's would be an awesome value boutique mic for our studio. I have personally found the only better thing than Michael's mics is his customer service, and I love the fact that he's an open and enthusiastic part of the audio nerd community.

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by meestro

hgen, there is a reason why the thread says 'my recommendations', and the mics he is accustomed to modifying are the ones that he has personal experience with...Rather than think ill of the situation, which you have absolutely no reason to, take it as the rest of this forum has, and gain much researched knowledge/clarity from it.

yes

To reiterate from the 1st post:

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

...because they are better than just Ok right out of the box and because they make great low-cost mod'ing platforms for those of you with a DIY bent.

[hgen]

Originally Posted by Blast9

yes

To reiterate from the 1st post:

Clearly, he's using this Forum as a launching pad to advertise his microphones.

If his 1st Post said, "Here are the budget microphones that I recommend for modifications which I do", then his agenda would be transparent to everyone.

But obviously he can't do that without seeming like a parasite which may hurt business, so he recommends 4 crappy mics from which he can launch another infomercial.

Any question about any mic and his agenda is to hijack the thread to sell more product. Surely he can spruik himself at the New Gear Forum with the rest of the sellers where the agenda is transparent, rather than launch these surreptitious advertisements under the guise of helpful recommendations in the Low End??

For what its worth, the 4 mics he recommended are completely useless unless they are modified. Read through the thread, he makes that clear later on, the agenda is to sell the his new K47 capsule which he was spruiking at the time. It's deceitful and parasitic!

[Blast9]

Of course I see your point, but he has plenty of posts in the new products forum.

As for

For what its worth, the 4 mics he recommended are completely useless unless they are modified. Read through the thread, he makes that clear later on, the agenda is to sell the his new K47 capsule which he was spruiking at the time. It's deceitful and parasitic!

I have been following this thread very closely but will re-read to make sure...

In this thread he is at least giving people options, and plenty of advice - Maybe we should do a poll of subscribers to see who has actually done any mods

[Michael_Joly]

I've noticed a positive correlation between the frequency of Hgen's posts and traffic + sales at my site. So I should say thank you.

[hgen]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Of course I see your point, but he has plenty of posts in the new products forum.

As for



I have been following this thread very closely but will re-read to make sure...

In this thread he is at least giving people options, and plenty of advice - Maybe we should do a poll of subscribers to see who has actually done any mods

You agree then he is a parasite but you don't care.

[Mark Kaufman]

Originally Posted by hgen

You agree then he is a parasite but you don't care.

Parasites suck blood and offer nothing in return...Joly offers budget recommendations as well as great, inexpensive mic mods.

This thread, packed with great info, offers more to us than your posts, but thanks anyway for your vigilantism on our behalf.

[Michael_Joly]

One of the best budget mics is a free mic right?

How about a pair of free mics? Would that be cool?

How about a pair of free mics that just happen to sound like the legendary Neumann KM 84? ("in this room, with that guitar, on that piece of music, on the day the recording was made, (YMMV)" as one of the legendary and equivocating gear pimps used to say).

Well, if your ears are golden and you don't mind expressing an opinion, you could win pair of modified Oktava MK-012 mics with all six capsules (omni, hyper and cardioid). This is the last call for listener entries to the "be all, end all, KM 84 'sound alike' contest".

Dr. Bill has recorded a guitar track using both the KM 84 and mod'd '012 then produced a comp'd track that switches back and forth between the two mics 13 times. The person who correctly identifies the greatest number of edit points wins the matched stereo pair of mod'd Oktava mics. Warning - its not easy. The two mics sound so much alike (on this guitar, in this room, on that day bla bla bla) you'd really better polish up those golden ears.

Full details about the contest (email entries must be received by 12pm Pacific time May 17, 2001) and the listening track are in this thread. To recap - here's a chance to use your ears and win a free pair of mics most of you won't be able to correctly distinquish from the KM 84.

Excuse me, I have to get back to blood sucking ; )

[kingocounty]

Originally Posted by hgen

I got every right to point that out!

That's true, and I have every right to add you to my block list. Thanks for all the free advice on this forum and on your website, Mr. Joly.

[Blast9]

Just keeping this thread on topic

This is a great thread with plenty of modding enthusiasts and "guys doing it for a living" contributing... And there is a decent amount of balance provided by differing opinions... That's how the best discussion threads should be.

lets keep it that way!

-

Michael's link to an extensive list of mic mods, now included on post #1 -

MIC MOD META

-

Still "Best Value" mics -

* The Nady SCM-800 and MCA SP1 side address SDC mics (not LDC!) are still $50
* the cardioid-only, transformer-coupled MXL v67g LDC is $90
* the three-pattern FET / transformer-coupled CAD GXL3000 is $90from Front End Audio
* the 9-pattern tube / transformer-coupled Apex 460 is still $189.
* the Nady CM-90 SDC (uses the same capsule as the SCM-800 and SP1) is the lowest priced pencil SDC at $50.
* For ribbon mics, the Nady RSM-4 and RSM-5 still hold down the low end at $80 with their "short ribbon / long path" motors.
* the $99 Apex 205 "long ribbon / short path" mic is still the one to beat.


Amongst hundreds of low cost mics, these still define "best value" in my book.

Recently I've really been promoting the $229 (from Adorama Camera) Nady 1050 as a different color alternative to the Apex 460.

-

This is golden

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Yes, all the mics I've recommended are good performers right out of the box. That's why I started this thread. These mics are excellent values. But because the initial cost is so low, and they have upgradable acoustical structures, topologies and components, they are excellent platforms for mods.

There are very few low cost mics that cannot be re-engineered to improve performance. Issues that are practically ubiquitous in low cost LDC mics:

* Restrictive & reflective headbaskets that cause standing wave coloration
* Rising HF response K67-type capsules feeding flat response circuits make mics too bright
* Ceramic disc coupling caps between capsule and FET input contribute to a harsh high end
* Common 2SK170 FET present less-than-ideal capacitive load on capsule and robs transient response and detail
* Polarized electrolytic coupling capacitors introduce various non-linearities

And in low cost ribbon mics:

* Restrictive & reflective headbaskets that cause standing wave coloration
* Mechanically resonant headbaskets ring when excited by vibration
* Sagging or improperly tensioned ribbons cause booming infrasonics and loss of level
* Poor electrical contact between clamps and ribbon raise noise
* Undersized wiring not nulled and secured for minimum AC hum field pick up
* Less than ideal transformers

Even the industry standard SM-57 gets mod'd upon occasion - to make it do something different that some people prefer to the stock form.

And witness the upward price migration of new mics from MXL, Cascade, 3 Zigma Audio etc. The higher prices reflect the R&D, manufacturing and QC costs incurred to bring out higher quality, better performing mics.

-

Michael please would you "mod" your signature for absolute clarity as per forum rules thumbsup

thanks

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

RODE mics have come up a bit in this thread - here's an interesting factoid....

Just keep'n these RODE findings in one spot -

Yesterday I did two NT1a mics for the same client. While the mics looked the same on the outside they used different capsules. Both were K67-type, but one of them had an additional high frequency resonator disc floating above the diaphragm, attached by means of the center termination screw. This mic had more HF lift than the other mic without the disc.

To date, I've seen three variations of capsules in the NT1 / NT1a - the two above and an edge-terminated style. This probably accounts for the widely varying opinions of these mics - not everyone is hearing the same design.

Below -a few NT1 / NT1a headbaskets removed.

[snaimpally]

Originally Posted by hgen

Clearly, he's using this Forum as a launching pad to advertise his microphones.

If his 1st Post said, "Here are the budget microphones that I recommend for modifications which I do", then his agenda would be transparent to everyone.

But obviously he can't do that without seeming like a parasite which may hurt business, so he recommends 4 crappy mics from which he can launch another infomercial.

Any question about any mic and his agenda is to hijack the thread to sell more product. Surely he can spruik himself at the New Gear Forum with the rest of the sellers where the agenda is transparent, rather than launch these surreptitious advertisements under the guise of helpful recommendations in the Low End??

For what its worth, the 4 mics he recommended are completely useless unless they are modified. Read through the thread, he makes that clear later on, the agenda is to sell the his new K47 capsule which he was spruiking at the time. It's deceitful and parasitic!

Get a grip! I have found this thread to be very useful. If you don't like this thread, then don't read it. If you feel Joly's posts are inappropriate, then complain to the mods. But as someone said earlier, you have made your point - now go somewhere else please.

[snaimpally]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Now if you want to talk about "best value", then the Apex 185 with both cardioid and omni capsules from Front End Audio for $49 is it.

Just to clarify, I think you mean the Apex 180. The Apex 185 is a matched pair BUT they also have a 10db pad and rolloff (similar to the MXL604). I seem to recall you mentioning that the switches on the MXL604 make it unsuitable for modding so I expect the Apex 185 may be similarly difficult to mod.

[Michael_Joly]

Doh, you're right! I should have said Apex 180.

And yes, I've stopped modifying the dual-switch versions (185 and MXL 604 etc) until I can find a replacement source for the miniature parts I was using which have been discontinued.

[snaimpally]

Also, I just wanted to comment on the negative remarks by some of the others in this thread. First of all, I think of all of us realize that Mr. Joly mods mics for a living and that his reccomendations are based on mics that he offers mods for. So no need to point it out because WE ALL GET IT. I do take his advice with a grain of salt.

He reccomends these mics because he is intimately familiar with the mics he mods - he has researched their schematics, their design, their construction, and knows the good, the bad, and the ugly for these. If I went to a shop that services German cars (VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc.) and ask them what is the most reliable car they know of, they will reccomend a German car because that is what they work on and what they know. They won't reccomend a Ford. Duh!

[snaimpally]

I think someone in this thread mention that AT mics don't get the recognition they deserve and I agree. For many years I recorded my concerts with AT813 mics. Very flat, smooth condenser mic. I still own three of them and they have given me good service. The current model is the AT8031 and it can be had for around $150. It can use phantom or one AA battery. A very nice, underrated mic IMHO. The AT813 and the ATM31 (same mic, slightly different housing) can be had very cheap on ebay.

Also, check out the Mike Jasper SDC shootout: http://www.charteroakacoustics.com/p...DCshootout.pdf

Mike notes that the AT4021 SDC was the surprise of the bunch. For $250, it beat out many of the more expensive SDCs.