Tascam 1884 vs RME FireFace800

[once a roadie]

ok - so I've got the Tascam 1884...thinking about an "upgrade" to the RME FF 800...

is it an upgrade or not?

the 4 mic pres on the FF800 are enough for me...

[awakened]

if the converters in your tascam are the same as the FW-1082 (which is possible, they look like they are from the same product line), then i think you would see a substantial upgrade in conversion.

that being said, though i think the converters in the fireface are awesome (owned and used one for a year), i cant tell much of a difference between them and the ones in the high end Echos. They may use the same conversion chip?

dang, need War to bump in here and confirm!

the pres are usable, but i'd bet the ones in the tascam are better.

[layez]

1884 user here. I havent used the FF800, but for the price point I am guessing it would be a pretty lateral move and not hear much of a difference in the converters. After reading pretty extensively on this topic, i think you'd have to step up into the next bracket of converters if you wanted to hear an audible difference (Aurora, Mytek, Lavry, etc). FWIW, i would recommend upgrading in this order: monitors, acoustics, mics, preamps, analog eq/comp, converters. Another route you could take, which is one I am considering, is getting a nice A/D or D/A two channel and routing it through the 1884 via spdif. That way you still have a nice control surface.

[RonT]

Tascam is my one peice of equipment that is going to stay! Not only are the pres very good and transparent but the D/A conversion is Awsome! The A/D conversion is very usable but not as good as my Rosetta 800. The MIDI roughting is awsome! and the Thing is built like a tank. Did I mention the Roughting? If the 1884 had LCDs on them then It would be a industry killer! FF800 is a decent too.... but the 1884 beats it in A/D conversion. They are on par with D/A

Did I mention the Roughting in the 1884?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Oh yeah AND its a control surface

[Retinal]

Didn't the 1884 have some kind of problem overtime? Randomly dying channles?

[once a roadie]

The original 1884 units did not have protection diodes on the mic input circuit. When plugging or unplugging certain phantom powered condenser mics the buffer op amp at the end of the preamp circuit would blow. This happened to mine (2 channels) and I rebuilt the preamps with all new burr-brown and Analog Devices super high slew rate opamps. I also added filter caps to the transistor bases to clean up the signal more. These mods were recommended by a guy called machinator on the internet. Anyhow, I had blown 2 channels but rebuilt all 8 (4+4) and the mic pres do sound better than ever. This is partially why I am hesitant to upgrade. I've got some good outboard now, and the A/D D/A is the question mark in my system. I am skeptical that the RME will be any better sounding.

How high do I have to go? I'd like to stick with firewire, which has only one high end piece (the orpheus)...

[Phil Harmonic]

Okay....so I've had my 1884 for almost a year, and I'm seriously thinking of switching to a Fireface 800 for one main reason.....The fact that Black Lion Audio does an apparently fantastic upgrade not only to the pres and converters, but to the actual analog stage as well! I was curious though, as to what thoughts anybody else had on this. Honestly, I really don't prefer the A/D conversion through the pres on the 1884, especially for bass! Sounds a bit too thin and lifeless. But that brings me to another question. What if I just added a quality word clock unit to tighten things up? But would this be imprinted on recorded incoming signals or only through the D/A conversion? I would asume I'd hear it through both, right? I really like the 1884's layout, routing, and interface overall, I just wish they had gone with TI instead of BridgCo for the conversion! Any thoughts?

[once a roadie]

I clock my 1884 off my API A2D and it does seem to help sometimes.

So what is the conclusion...the 1884 is just as good as the fireface?

[D K]

I went from the FW1884 to the RME Multiface...

Loved the thing and did the Machinator Mod as well - It was a significant upgrade to the Stock Pres..

Still have it ..been thinking of putting up for sale but have not yet

The reason I changed...simple ...Stability and Support..

Tascam makes great Hardware in my opinion but the driver updates/robustness sucks and the tech support is even worse..


Does the RME sound better- I don't think so but the driver stability and support are light years better

[DivineMusic]

Originally Posted by grockvt

ok - so I've got the Tascam 1884...thinking about an "upgrade" to the RME FF 800...

is it an upgrade or not?

the 4 mic pres on the FF800 are enough for me...

simply put

is it an upgrade, Yes it is
are the converters in the ff800 better than the 1884, Yes.. but the frontier converters aren't a push over.. they're actually really good (not the same as the 1082 mentioned)

the pres are usable and transparent.. the ff800's are cleaner, more headroom and a little more musical IMO

the 1884 is great with external converters. i used mine with a lucid 88192 and the 1884 was great wordclocked to the lucid.

[jikky]

Originally Posted by DivineMusic

simply put

is it an upgrade, Yes it is
are the converters in the ff800 better than the 1884, Yes.. but the frontier converters aren't a push over.. they're actually really good (not the same as the 1082 mentioned)

U sure?

My 1082 is in the repair shop. Tech guy told me the converters in the 1082, 1804 (rack), and 1884 are the same. Difference, as he said it, was 1082 doesn't have as many in and outs and no wordclock on the 1082.

Personally idk, but the 1082 sounds good to me.

[DivineMusic]

Originally Posted by jikky

U sure?

My 1082 is in the repair shop. Tech guy told me the converters in the 1082, 1804 (rack), and 1884 are the same. Difference, as he said it, was 1082 doesn't have as many in and outs and no wordclock on the 1082.

Personally idk, but the 1082 sounds good to me.

one of my partners has a 1082 and vs the 1884 side by side it doesnt sound the same
i was told by some teac/tascam ppl that the 1884 has frontier converters and the 1082 has akm converters but the control surface was designed with frontier.. i dont know honestly. i'd have to pop them both open and look for myself

[jikky]

Originally Posted by DivineMusic

one of my partners has a 1082 and vs the 1884 side by side it doesnt sound the same
i was told by some teac/tascam ppl that the 1884 has frontier converters and the 1082 has akm converters but the control surface was designed with frontier.. i dont know honestly. i'd have to pop them both open and look for myself

I feel ya. Maybe my tech person was just talking. Who knows.

Have you ever had your 1884 trip on a 6pin to 4pin firewire cable? Anytime I hook up one of the Tascam units to my laptop with the 4pin the Tascams go crazy. Faders jump erradically, the connection seems to cut on and off, and it's like the internal CPU goes haywire or something. Idk what's up with that. On my desktop its perfect. Laptop is a no go.

[DivineMusic]

ive never use it with my laptop.. so i cant even help you there man.

[once a roadie]

Works fine on my IBM ThinkPad with the 4 pin FW. The converter chips are decent ones from 2003 vintage...the pres are simple designs...overall it is a great unit in terms of function...however, now that I have some really nice outboard, I am wondering about the conversion...it is old.

How far up the upgrade chain do I have to go to hear a difference?

PS I am using an Aphex 142 for an addtional 8 channels of D/A into my folcrom summing mixer. It has higher output levels and seems to be more punchy than the Tascam D/A. However, when mixing, I think we all tend to compensate based on what we hear...so I guess the question is, is what we hear enough?

[pcrescue]

I'm new to this site (but I undoubtedly fit into the "Gearslutz" category). I need some help & opinions if you would be so kind: I've had an FW-1804 for almost four years, and it's been back to Tascam twice already. Once, replaced under warranty, second paid repair. The firewire interface gets tweaky then eventually stops altogether. Now it's getting tweaky again and it's looking like a repeat repair is eminent.
I have a small studio, Korg M3 & Triton Extreme, Sennheiser & Audio Technica mics, Crown XTi 1000 amp driving Alesis Monitor Ones & home-made floor monitors. I have two AC One line power conditioners supplying everything. Floor noise is negligible at strong volume levels. When the Tascam works, the system sounds exquisite. But I will be in the middle of a track, either recording or playback, and hear a loud "pop" & Tracktion loses the Tascam. It's hard to re-start, sometimes having to turn the Tascam on & off repeatedly to get it to reconnect and get the front panel firewire indicator back on. Seems like it gets warm & I'm thinking it should have been built with an internal cooling fan. Both the Crown & the Tascam sit side-by-side on a shelf above the keyboards with nothing on top of them.
I'm a longtime computer tech and have an AMD Phenom on an MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum motherboard - onboard firewire & a PCI card too - no difference. This is the second generation computer and no difference with the Tascam's behavior between the two.
I'm losing faith and patience with the FW-1804, all Tascam says is "send it in" because they want $ and I'm wondering if anybody else is experiencing this anomaly with the FW-1804. If it's the interface, is there a better, more solid alternative? Looking at the FireStudio (specs are impressive), but no reviews. I need both XLR & balanced 1/4" inputs, and could throw out the Audio Technica which needs phantom power cause the Sennheiser sounds so much better and doesn't need pp.
Any thoughts? (And thanks for taking the time!)

[layez]

Originally Posted by grockvt

Works fine on my IBM ThinkPad with the 4 pin FW. The converter chips are decent ones from 2003 vintage...the pres are simple designs...overall it is a great unit in terms of function...however, now that I have some really nice outboard, I am wondering about the conversion...it is old.

How far up the upgrade chain do I have to go to hear a difference?

As mentioned before, I think you need to get up into the 1k range for converters to really hear an audible difference in conversion. Mytek, Lavry, Aurora, then up to UA, Burl, HEDD, Prism, etc. Otherwise I dont think you are going to be very happy for the marginal difference in conversion. Would I like to have better converters? Sure, you bet. But not until I get my front end right first: monitors, mics, pres, room treatment, eq/comp, then AD/DA.

If its any consolation, I can tell you from personal experience that I used to seriously doubt the conversion of the tascam wondering why my recordings didnt sound better. Ive been slowly improving the pieces I just mentioned and my recordings are sounding much better with the same converters, and I honestly attribute most of it to my improving engineering skills, and then to the equipment. I remember you complained of thin bass on an early post, it's not the converters, more likely your bass or your preamp. I can plug a bass DI into my Great River and get a thick bass sound using the same convertors you use, and if i boost the lows of the bass on my passive EQ, it turns into a massive bass. If you are using expensive outboard gear, please make sure you are running into the inserts of the 1884, not the line-in. Otherwise, you are using the preamp gainstage of the 1884.

I think you should make a good evaluation of the singal chain before your ADDA, determine if you should upgrade there, and then consider the next big jump in conversion. I am going to upgrade eventually, and i will let you know what happens when im able to pay to turn my analog singal into expensive 1s and 0s. Until then, im going to keep making the best recordings I can. Feel free to PM me with specific questions

[awakened]

Originally Posted by layez

If its any consolation, I can tell you from personal experience that I used to seriously doubt the conversion of the tascam wondering why my recordings didnt sound better.

believe it or not, I have heard stellar recordings from a Firepod (experienced engineer, just hadn't upgraded yet). it was all plugins though, as doing a round through analog gear would probably be detrimental to the audio, seeing as you'd go through the conversion twice.

again, too, it was a metal band, so there was a lot of HPing and LPing. haha. I remember him using the UA precision maximizer as well to add some "exciteness"

[once a roadie]

thanks layez - I think it was someone else who complained about the thin bass. I can get a plenty fat bass sound from my UA or API pres. I may PM you at some point about the 1884.

I have done what you said and have improved all other aspects (aside from my mixing skills, but even that is getting better)...

I'm really just curious about the conversion...did you see the M-Audio converter test in the listening section? Steely dan tune...

[layez]

it's nice to see another 1884 user around here. i think we are a rare breed these days. i got mine for 600 bucks, what a stupid deal! i think when I finally get another AD, it will likely be a UA, Burl or Lavry black. i'll run it digital ins on the 1884 and use the extra inserts if i need more channels of AD.

I didn't hear the MAudio Steely Dan tune. That said, ive never been overly impressed at the sound of Mbox's. I think it is WAY over priced. For my ears, Tascam blows it out of the water.

[jikky]

Originally Posted by pcrescue

I'm new to this site (but I undoubtedly fit into the "Gearslutz" category). I need some help & opinions if you would be so kind: I've had an FW-1804 for almost four years, and it's been back to Tascam twice already. Once, replaced under warranty, second paid repair. The firewire interface gets tweaky then eventually stops altogether. Now it's getting tweaky again and it's looking like a repeat repair is eminent.
I have a small studio, Korg M3 & Triton Extreme, Sennheiser & Audio Technica mics, Crown XTi 1000 amp driving Alesis Monitor Ones & home-made floor monitors. I have two AC One line power conditioners supplying everything. Floor noise is negligible at strong volume levels. When the Tascam works, the system sounds exquisite. But I will be in the middle of a track, either recording or playback, and hear a loud "pop" & Tracktion loses the Tascam. It's hard to re-start, sometimes having to turn the Tascam on & off repeatedly to get it to reconnect and get the front panel firewire indicator back on. Seems like it gets warm & I'm thinking it should have been built with an internal cooling fan. Both the Crown & the Tascam sit side-by-side on a shelf above the keyboards with nothing on top of them.
I'm a longtime computer tech and have an AMD Phenom on an MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum motherboard - onboard firewire & a PCI card too - no difference. This is the second generation computer and no difference with the Tascam's behavior between the two.
I'm losing faith and patience with the FW-1804, all Tascam says is "send it in" because they want $ and I'm wondering if anybody else is experiencing this anomaly with the FW-1804. If it's the interface, is there a better, more solid alternative? Looking at the FireStudio (specs are impressive), but no reviews. I need both XLR & balanced 1/4" inputs, and could throw out the Audio Technica which needs phantom power cause the Sennheiser sounds so much better and doesn't need pp.
Any thoughts? (And thanks for taking the time!)

I have no idea. Maybe switch up. Mine is in the shop warranty repair on a Tascam 1082. If it messes up again then I'm switching interfaces.

[mr83j]

is it possible to connect the tascam 1884 to a presonus firepod and have 8 more xlr in's

[tonus]

Originally Posted by mr83j

is it possible to connect the tascam 1884 to a presonus firepod and have 8 more xlr in's

the firepod has no ADAT, only 2ch-S/PDIF, but maybe you can use it together at the same time via firewire, depending on your OS/ DAW