How to you get a upfront vocal with loads of depth without loads of reverb?

[A LaMere]

The answer is just the right mic, the right pre... the right compressor (if you're using one) and lastly.... all used on the right voice.

One of the most UP FRONT vocal mics I've ever used is the shure SM7... if you're looking for a really dry, up front sound anyways... Honestly, sometimes I've thought that it's just way too up front.

[Ethan Winer]

Usually up-front means very dry, with no reverb or effects other than maybe compression. But another type of up-front sound uses a fair amount of "stage" type reverb - short initial delay and fast decay time. This makes a voice or instrument sound very present, like it's right there in the room with you. I think this is the kind of effect you might have in mind. So you'll add reverb, but instead of a hall or plate type preset you'll use "room" or "stage" etc.

--Ethan

[DontLetMeDrown]

If you're looking for an "up front" sound, maybe ditch the reverb. Squashing the hell out of the vocals can make it seem more up front because its volume will remain more consistent.

[studiogear]

thanks...i'm looking at pussycat dolls" "stick with you" kind of vocal sound...

[lotus1]

Not sure of that sound but....Try a stereo "Haas" delay.Full pan Left/right. Actual delay times will depend on tempo and cadence/performance.Try reducing Hi freq's in the delays.Remember,if the one delay is within Haas of the other delay it will still not be heard.Meaning,Haas "breaks down" around 35ms.As long as the first delay is within 35 of the LV,the 2nd delay just needs to be within 35ms of the 1st delay.I would start tho,at around 22/36,for example.Tight.You can also parallel compress the LV in the middle too.Have fun.No reverb needed.mario

[studiogear]

didn't understand exactly the term "haas" but I will try the procedure Thanks mate

[lotus1]

Originally Posted by studiogear

didn't understand exactly the term "haas" but I will try the procedure Thanks mate

Sorry...Haas effect/integration.Here we go.lol.(Ducking for "expert" flaming now).Haas experimented with psychacoustics...You can also try adding reverb off the delays(not really for me tho).Or add a 3rd longer delay with verb.Mario.

[studiogear]

ok thanks

[Zep Dude]

Some of that is just the obscene mastering compression (and vocal compression) and some more of that can sometimes just be the arrangement leaving lots of space for the vocal to sound "big". It's also knowing how to eq the voice just so you bring out the texture and the high end without it seeming thin.

[jd_]

Sing very close to a mic set to omni. Omni has almost no proximity effect (no boominess).
I have had very cool result like that.

[down_town]

hello
I just heard a a bit of that pusscat dolls song.
step 1.Try eqing the lot end out of the vocal (cut around 100-80hz and
below)
step 2.compress as needed (may need to be heavy compression)
step 3. add a bit of air to the compressed signal(6-10khz)

4.add a pre fade aux send to your reverb after the cutting eq (step 1)
5.on the reverb buss - after the reverb plug in - insert a eq and roll off everything above 6-10khz and below say 250hz

By putting a reverb send on the vocal (pre compression) it allows the vocal to breath a bit more when the singer really hit those notes-it opens up the space without sound to drenched and gives back a little life to the prefromance.

hope this helps
Darren

[studiogear]

that's what I ended up doing...thanks again it works..

[Iron Man]

Also make sure you have some pre-delay on your reverb, somewhere between 30 and 80 ms, to keep the vocal up front.

[KillerV]

I haven't heard the Pussycat Dolls song you mentioned, so I can't really comment on what will work for that, but a trick that I've found to work wonders for making a vocal more upfront and fat, especially when I don't wanna use a lot of reverb, is to copy the main vocal track twice. Pitch shift one copy 8 cents (also try 4) up and the other copy 8 cents down. Pan them hard left and right and add a little bit of this to your main vocal. It just seems to make the vocal step out of the mix, giving it a 3D type of quality.

[aclarson]

Record really dry, put absorbers all around the mic.

Use a crapload of compression.

[studiogear]

i do that trick you mentioned of copying the vocal and panning it...it works wonders...but what I missed was that you don't hear reverb but still you hear that it sits nicely with the rest...not completely dry...also something that helped is a stereo widener

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Zep Dude

Some of that is just the obscene mastering compression (and vocal compression) and some more of that can sometimes just be the arrangement leaving lots of space for the vocal to sound "big". It's also knowing how to eq the voice just so you bring out the texture and the high end without it seeming thin.

You are definitely right. I was working on a rap song yesterday and the vocals sounded somewhat upfront (dry, compressed etc) but not as punchy as I would have liked. Then I mastered it and wow, they just came out of nowhere!

So yes. As everyone stated, no reverb, lots of vocal stacking (I do a technique where you record 2 lead vocals, you chorus one of them to put it in stereo (wider), and you use a 3rd track for ad libs (in stereo as well). The result sounds like a gigantic wall of sound. This is a rap example but it shows what I'm talking about.

I just can't reveal all my secrets though!

ps: Yes I'm the one rapping on the demo.

[Mike Caffrey]

I find if you're not going to use any reverb, you're sometimes better off recording with a little distance between the singer and the mic. Not a lot, just enough to prevent it from sounding unmixed.

The other techinique, which I prefer, is to use lots of short delays.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

I find if you're not going to use any reverb, you're sometimes better off recording with a little distance between the singer and the mic. Not a lot, just enough to prevent it from sounding unmixed.

The other techinique, which I prefer, is to use lots of short delays.

It depends though, because you can do it up close and remove a bit of bass after every vocals are tracked. I do this all the time. Preferences though.

[ofutch]

one tip i've heard is copying the track adding a 100ms delay, and a touch a of chorus, really minimal then blend that with a 2nd copy thats a slightly shorter delay and pan the copies out wide so your getting a wall of vocals.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by ofutch

one tip i've heard is copying the track adding a 100ms delay, and a touch a of chorus, really minimal then blend that with a 2nd copy thats a slightly shorter delay and pan the copies out wide so your getting a wall of vocals.

Or, being less lazy and sing the parts a couple of times to double the vocals :P I'm positive that The Pussycat dolls do lots and lots of takes and have 150+ tracks. It's all about stacking vocals in a dry environment.

[fallforward]

Track with a compressor at a modest amount

Then add another compressor during the mix a little less modestly

Then master with a multi band comp that is in now way modest!



Also (Like Ethan said) stay away from long reverbs. Use a very short reverb, most likely with some predelay, that you can just barely hear if the vox are solo'd. You shouldn't be able to 'hear' the reverb in the full mix. It should just be enough for the vocals to not sound too 'dry' This can also be accomplished by combing a few delays, as also stated above.

Good Luck!
Robby

[RTR]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Or, being less lazy and sing the parts a couple of times to double the vocals :P I'm positive that The Pussycat dolls do lots and lots of takes and have 150+ tracks. It's all about stacking vocals in a dry environment.

+1..dont be lazy..sing it again..

PS..I like your tune, you really sound black, nice job

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by chrislago

It depends though, because you can do it up close and remove a bit of bass after every vocals are tracked. I do this all the time. Preferences though.

I'm not talking about the tonal changes, I'm talking about the ambient changes from the distance. It's not just low end.

[ahmz]

+ add dry reverb and a small predelay
+ add some db in 3-5 khz
+ close to mic in recording

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by fallforward

Track with a compressor at a modest amount

Then add another compressor during the mix a little less modestly

Then master with a multi band comp that is in now way modest!



Also (Like Ethan said) stay away from long reverbs. Use a very short reverb, most likely with some predelay, that you can just barely hear if the vox are solo'd. You shouldn't be able to 'hear' the reverb in the full mix. It should just be enough for the vocals to not sound too 'dry' This can also be accomplished by combing a few delays, as also stated above.

Good Luck!
Robby

+1

[MichaelGabriel]

Wow. Okay. Hi everyone. I'm a newbie and I've been on this forum searching for something along these lines. My question is, would the house vocals of the '90s and early millenium sound anything like what's being referred to or described in this thread?

An example would be Sandy Riviera's 'Come Into My Room' featuring LT Brown or Romanthony's 'Get This Thing Together'?

I use SX3 with the stock plugins for the said purpose. How would I go about doing that, especially around the multiband compression?

Cheers to my first post...