applying low end theory to preamps...

[nemo2000]

i have a project studio and i want to upgrade the preamp, as i think this is the weakest element of the whole setup.
I am now working with a Behringer 1953, a dual valve preamp, which - to be honest - has done its dirty job quite respectably. But now i need more pre channels and a bit more quality, so i am thinking about adding one more preamp. i DON'T want pres in the audio card (i am using 2 multichannel ECHO cards, without pres).
After looking around, i think that the Focusrite ISA 428 would be ideal, it's worth about 1200 Eur for 4 pre channels, but it's above my budget.
Anything to suggest in the 500-800 Eur range for a used gear? maybe the TLAudio ivory series? please help. Thanks

[rty5150]

yikes! the behringer t1953 is a horrible unit. it was my first rack pre! back when i had an art tube mp. total noob action back then. for 4 channels that are good and cheap: sytek mpx-4aii. i have the isa428. great swiss army knife preamp. has a ton of bells and whistles per channel. the sound is good. not great, but it tames brittle chinese mics very well. the low mids are really smooth and chunky, not as fat as my chameleon labs pres, but moreso than my ssl pres. the isa is smack in the middle, but is not my first choice on anything.
i would actually recommend that you find a nice used console that has great specs. i am a huge fan of older ramsa boards(i have 2 wr-s4424 and one wr-s208) and the tascam m2600 would be a great find as well. the newer allen and heath stuff gets great reviews, but i haven't heard them yet. try to find and older soundtracs topaz or one of the new soundcrafts. don't limit yourself to outboard pres in this search. some consoles just have killer sounding pres and can be had super cheap!


rich

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by nemo2000

Anything to suggest in the 500-800 Eur range for a used gear? maybe the TLAudio ivory series? please help. Thanks

The Ivory Mk II are perfectly usable, having more headroom and less grit than the earlier version, but personally I'd go for Mackie Onyx in your budget. Clear, detailed sound, loads of headroom.

Dunno if they do a 4 channel one which isn't an interface or a desk though (you could feasibly get 2 x Onyx Satellites as you can pull the preamp modules and use them line in >>> your interface.

Save up for the ISA!

[rty5150]

Secondhand Soundcraft Spirit Studio 24/8/2 Mixing Desk - UK - Topic Powered by Eve For Enterprise

looks like it's in your budget and on your side of the pond!

rich

[dickiefunk]

Another option would be to get 2 Audient Micos or FMR RNP's or one of each:-

MiCO - Audient

FMR Audio - Home of the Really Nice Compressor and Preamp (512) 280-6557

I've been really pleased with my cheaper ART MPA Gold but I need to upgrade the tubes to get the best out of it!

[Heartfelt]

If you really want to jump up in quality, one possiblity is to find a 500 series rack and watch ebay and the GS classifieds for 500 seies pres.

Another option would be to grab a Stienberg MR816X interface. It would upgrade your conversion AND pres. Those pres wouldbe useable on anything. They are Yamaha's top shelf preamps. The conversion would put you in the Apogee Rosetta range. This would be 8 channels of fun.

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

If you really want to jump up in quality, one possiblity is to find a 500 series rack and watch ebay and the GS classifieds for 500 seies pres.

Another option would be to grab a Stienberg MR816X interface. It would upgrade your conversion AND pres. Those pres wouldbe useable on anything. They are Yamaha's top shelf preamps. The conversion would put you in the Apogee Rosetta range. This would be 8 channels of fun.

but the lunchbox would almost kill his budget. great idea, though. i have actually been thinking of getting a lunchbox myself, but can't justify at this point.

rich

[nemo2000]

many interesting suggestions. Thanks to all.
For the time being, i would exclude mixing desks, as i would like to carry the pre-amp with me, if necessary for recordings out of my studio. Furthermore, i already own a Mackie 32-8 analog desk: i like its EQ, not the same about its pres. So i would not translate the search for pres into a changing the mixing desk.

For sure I'll have a look at the Sytek and the Audient. I already knew about the FMR RNP (4 channels from 2 NEW units for less than 1000 Eur).
Let me add the Golden Age pre73, 1 channel for 250 Eur = 2 channels for 500 Eur NEW (there's no used unit out there).

Any more suggestions for a USED pre in the range 500-800 Eur?

[Blast9]

Golden Age pre73 - if it is anything like the Chameleon Labs pre - you'll definitely like it, but it would be a shame not to have the EQ too... amyway thats over your budget as you want 4 channels, right?

[nemo2000]

it may be of some help to give you the list of gears of my studio:

pc W XP - P4 3 Ghz
ECHO Gina 24 + Echo Layla 20
mixing desk Mackie 32-8
pre: Behringer T1953
compressors: Focusrite Compounder, TL Audio 5021 mk1, Dbx 160a, FMR RNC1773
effects: 2 x Lexicon MPX500, SPL Vitalizer Jack
microphones: Shure sm57 (x 2), Shure beta58, AKG C3000B, MXL 2001
nearfield monitors Dynaudio BM6

now you can agree that the preamp is the weakest element of the chain.

[nemo2000]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Golden Age pre73 - if it is anything like the Chameleon Labs pre - you'll definitely like it, but it would be a shame not to have the EQ too... amyway thats over your budget as you want 4 channels, right?

correct, 4 channel, possibly

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Golden Age pre73 - if it is anything like the Chameleon Labs pre - you'll definitely like it, but it would be a shame not to have the EQ too... amyway thats over your budget as you want 4 channels, right?

i actually have 4 channels of CL's. 2 7622's and they ARE my favorite pres. i run everything important through them except di electric guitars. that job is for my ssl alpha vhd(the vhd is godly for the di guitar signal), but almost all overdubs are tracked through the CL's. what outstanding pres!

rich

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by nemo2000

it may be of some help to give you the list of gears of my studio:

pc W XP - P4 3 Ghz
ECHO Gina 24 + Echo Layla 20
mixing desk Mackie 32-8
pre: Behringer T1953
compressors: Focusrite Compounder, TL Audio 5021 mk1, Dbx 160a, FMR RNC1773
effects: 2 x Lexicon MPX500, SPL Vitalizer Jack
microphones: Shure sm57 (x 2), Shure beta58, AKG C3000B, MXL 2001
nearfield monitors Dynaudio BM6

now you can agree that the preamp is the weakest element of the chain.

well, i would get a new pre and then a new LDC. the mics you have are ok. an adk vienna, mxl v67/69, KEL hm-7u or apex 460 would do wonders for your rig.

rich

[Weasel9992]

The DAV BG-2...absolutely great, clean preamp. They're located in the UK, so shipping is much less as well.

Frank

[Blast9]

^ good call!

[dickiefunk]

The DAV would be an excellent option but it costs approx 1100 euro + shipping which is more than the OP's budget.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by rty5150

but the lunchbox would almost kill his budget. great idea, though. i have actually been thinking of getting a lunchbox myself, but can't justify at this point.

rich

I was thinking used. With todays market, it seems like a gold mine out there if you have the cash. However, I missed the 4 channel aspect. With that in mind, I saw someone mention the Sytek.

I just saw a thread in the high end where people were talking about Neotek pres and recording drums. There were plenty of accolades for the pres and some even remarked about being comfortable tracking an entire album through them. Statements like that get my attention.

So, I am simply reporting what I saw. I think it is running 889.00 for 4 channels but you may score a box on Ebay. Hope it helps.
Rob

[KEYBEEETSSS]

Originally Posted by rty5150

yikes! the behringer t1953 is a horrible unit.

(sorry I couldn't help it)

[Groberts]

[quote=Heartfelt;4071567
Another option would be to grab a Stienberg MR816X interface. It would upgrade your conversion AND pres. Those pres wouldbe useable on anything. They are Yamaha's top shelf preamps. The conversion would put you in the Apogee Rosetta range. This would be 8 channels of fun.[/quote]

The Converters in the Steinberg MR816X are that good? (apogee Rosetta range?) If so, that's a killer unit with excellent preamps, and converters all in one. I wonder are the Yamaha N series Digital mixers (N8/N12) the same quality converters as the Steinberg? I believe the preamps are the same, but I don't know about the converters.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by Groberts

The Converters in the Steinberg MR816X are that good? (apogee Rosetta range?) If so, that's a killer unit with excellent preamps, and converters all in one. I wonder are the Yamaha N series Digital mixers (N8/N12) the same quality converters as the Steinberg? I believe the preamps are the same, but I don't know about the converters.

That is their target range for quality. With their comparisons, they don't mention names but give a price range and it is fairly easy to think of who/what is in that range.

MP3s, Videos & PDFs :: Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH :: www.steinberg.net

My understanding is that the N series is the same thing but in a mixer.
Rob

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by KEYBEEETSSS

(sorry I couldn't help it)

what? you dig it?


i'll pass. i might buy another one if it were broken for like $10 for the chassis. it would be a great platform for a project. can we say SCA with meters?

rich

[nemo2000]

Sytek, Chameleon Labs, Audient, DAV are all interesting suggestions. I have the suspect they're somehow not easy to try...i mean to put hands on them before i buy one or even to understand the different sound attitudes.

(As regards the T1953...well, it's a 100 Eur unit...though I cannot claim it's a dream gear, it's extremely clean and neutral. No noise at all, but also almost no character).

[nemo2000]

and what about the SPL GoldMike? a used one trades at about 400€...

[Iggy Poop]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

If you really want to jump up in quality, one possiblity is to find a 500 series rack and watch ebay and the GS classifieds for 500 seies pres.

Another option would be to grab a Stienberg MR816X interface. It would upgrade your conversion AND pres. Those pres wouldbe useable on anything. They are Yamaha's top shelf preamps. The conversion would put you in the Apogee Rosetta range. This would be 8 channels of fun.

Is it REALLY in that range? Because that might influence my decision. I've pretty much decided to get an Ensemble to use in standalone with digi 002. But the MR816 would be a little cheaper and give me 8 more good pres. But the conversion is the most important thing to me at this point. And can you trust the demo on the site not to be biased?

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by Iggy Poop

Is it REALLY in that range? Because that might influence my decision. I've pretty much decided to get an Ensemble to use in standalone with digi 002. But the MR816 would be a little cheaper and give me 8 more good pres. But the conversion is the most important thing to me at this point. And can you trust the demo on the site not to be biased?

Not entirely, of course. However, it will be a representation of what it "can" sound like. For it to even be compared to those in the range, they had to be fairly confident with the unit. What brings credibility to it, in my opinion, is the users here on GS who have a 70page thread singing the praises of the N12.

Just my humble .02
Rob

[SRFProductions]

I'm using an echo layla 24, my pres are a mackie vlz1402 as well as a mackie cfx20. Outisde of those to I use an ART MPA Gold and a presouns digimax FS and presonus blue tubes.
I would say that the Digimax is the best addition I have made to my layla as I have the choice of either using the eight pre in analog, or using the adat lightpipe for 16 ins (in a combination with my mackies, blue tubes, or mpa gold on the analog ins). The pres sound good and are affordable. Of course my modded mpa gold is nice as well, so that is something to consider.
Hope that helps somehow.......