Pre-Amp Shootout--M-Audio "Octane" VS "ART Tube MP" ~samples for yall to hear~

[craven]

so here it is, the shootout between the "m-audio" Octane pre-amps, and the "ART Tube MP"!

You guys decide what sounds nicer, and if i should keep the tube pre-amp....or ditch it...

so lets get it on guys!!

[craven]

**Update April 06**


here is the updated samples with the following...

the MXL V63M and the Trion 6000

they both go throught the octane pre-amp, and then the tube mp directed to the "insert" on the fast track ultra 8R to bypass the octane pre-amp...

so that we can get a better feel for the ART pre-amp....

here are the samples.......lets keep voting and awaiting comments....thanks

[RTR]

I think they both sound ok...

The only reason I think the art sounds better is because it is louder....BUt the art sound pretty good though....

Prepare for the assholes to show up!!

[craven]

*heres more samples, closer to the mic*

[craven]

also whats the best way to plug the ART pre-amp into my fast track ultra 8R with octane pre amps?

when i did these shootouts, i ran the output from the ART to the octane preamp, and turned it all the way down as low as it would go and it didnt clip...is this ok?

[wirenut]

Are you using stock tubes in the ART?

[KeithMoonwannabe]

if that's how you ran the test then we can't tell what the ART actually sounds like.

You have to use the line in's on the Fasttrack ultra 8r to bypass the preamps. Otherwise you are plugging a preamp into a preamp.

And another thing the Fast Track Ultra preamps are not the actual Octane preamps they are based on the Octane technology.

I've used both preamps and it's apples to oranges I can't say which is better because they both sound different. Both are solid pres for the money and both can yield good results.

You're comparing a solid state design to a starved plate tube design.

Another thing turn the volume up on all the preamps. You can likely monitor the level on your DAW just get it to about the yellow range so it's audible. You can't test anything effectively if it's not at a proper level.

I'm just not really sure why you thought the $50 Tube MP would be a significant upgrade over what you already have.

I will vote for the Octane based Ultra pres based on my personal experience not on the samples provided.

[craven]

the art has 2 outputs, 1 xlr and 1 TRS....the ultra 8R only has 8 XLR inputs, which have preamps...there is 2 inputs in the front for instrument...

then there is 2 "inserts" in the back, is this what you meant?

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by craven

the art has 2 outputs, 1 xlr and 1 TRS....the ultra 8R only has 8 XLR inputs, which have preamps...there is 2 inputs in the front for instrument...

then there is 2 "inserts" in the back, is this what you meant?

Yes that is what he meant. You need to connect the XLR output from your ART MPA Preamp into the "Insert" Input jack on the back of your Fast track Ultra. That should bypass the Octane Preamp entirely. Your mic should be plugged into the ART MPA input. The Fast Track Ultra then acts as a straight pass-thru to the computer *(bypassing the Octane Preamp entirely). We will only hear the MPA Preamp independent of the Octane preamp if connected in this manner. Make sense? I am not sure if the insert jack on your Ultra is balanced? (TRS) I believe it is. If so, you need an XLR cable that terminates to a 1/4" balanced (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) connector. Hope that helps.


By the way, the gain is excellent in this test! Nice and clear.

[craven]

so everything sounds good to you? good for my studio until i build a better budget?

[Chris Lago]

Hey, I've been seeing you go around this forum a lot and asking about gear. I think you need to realize that it's not the tools you have, it's what you do with those tools. I could get the best toolbox full of stuff to use on my car (sorry, dunno anything about car tools) and I wouldn't be able to use them for the life of it. Focus on your recordings, not your gear!

[craven]

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Hey, I've been seeing you go around this forum a lot and asking about gear. I think you need to realize that it's not the tools you have, it's what you do with those tools. I could get the best toolbox full of stuff to use on my car (sorry, dunno anything about car tools) and I wouldn't be able to use them for the life of it. Focus on your recordings, not your gear!

I have a ton to learn about recording. True dat. Without question! Your point is well taken Chris and I do agree. I've been asking a bunch of questions about various pieces of gear on this forum recently to help me build a modest home recording studio with good quality gear that I won't soon want to replace. It's awesome to learn from those who have walked the path before me, who can save me some unnecessary buying and selling. (so I can focus on getting better "recordings!")

Because of all the searching and reading I've done on this forum, paired with questions I've asked, I have learned a lot and I've gotten some sweet budget pieces that I believe will be keepers for a long time.

For instance, I just got a matched pair of Peluso CEMC6 SDC mics today. (that I learned about here on GS) I made a quick recording. Damn if they don't sound a LOT MORE musical and sweet than the inexpensive chinese built Joe Meek JM27 SDC's I have. And the Peluso CEMC6 mics sound even better than the Audio Technica AT4050 I've been using. (and I really like that mic too. I learned about it here on GS) Getting some pieces of gear that suit my tonal pallette makes me happy and makes me want to record more. (And that helps motivate me to want to make better recordings!) The sonic quality of these Peluso Mic's is going to make me happy for a long time!

I learned a long time ago that buying and selling the wrong gear as a newbie (in any field) leads to resale losses that are ultimately more costly than taking a little more time at the beginning to learn about, and get the right pieces of gear in the first place.

This is not to say my Fast track Ultra is bad or unusable. I am already getting sonic results that exceed my expectations. I've heard a bunch of shootouts and comparisons and I have to say that while the Fast track Ultra (Octane derived) preamps are clean, decent and very usable, I've heard a couple other preamps in a similar price range that I like as much or more. (Not to mention, it amuses me to research, compare and find the gear that suits me. That's part of the fun right?)

And now ultimately, if I don't learn how to record and mix better, I'll have an easier time selling the 'good' gear that I bought in the first place. LOL

GAS. It's a disease. I've done this same thing with high end bass guitars and acoustic guitars. (But I now own some instruments that I freaking LOVE!) The list goes on. Research the best Cell phones? Sure. Home stereo? Yep. I'm a sicko. I admit it. But there are worse things right?

I have a Gearslut personality. It's part of my pathology. Hi, my name is Gary and I'm a Gearslut.

PS: No offense was taken whatsoever. I just know that I'll be happier knowing I am using some gear that was carefully chosen. I have no doubt it is capable of making way better recordings than my novice abilities would allow. But those "how-do-I" questions will be forthcoming too. Be forewarned. LOL

[moon_unit]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Hey, I've been seeing you go around this forum a lot and asking about gear. I think you need to realize that it's not the tools you have, it's what you do with those tools. I could get the best toolbox full of stuff to use on my car (sorry, dunno anything about car tools) and I wouldn't be able to use them for the life of it. Focus on your recordings, not your gear!

Says the guy who's constantly obsessing over microphones.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

only cuz he hasn't justified buying the C800G yet. lol

[KeithMoonwannabe]

seriously I'd return the Tube MP if possible ASAP. Put that money on a good mic.

If your Fast track isn't cutting it than you are doing something seriously wrong.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

Says the guy who's constantly obsessing over microphones.

But I just want that... Sound Urghhh. I still can't believe that after trying out all these goddamn mics, I'm stuck with the M-Audio Luna being a great fit for my voice... I'm thinking, come on now, there must be something else out there! I think great contenders would be the Hamburg and Vienna. I need a good mid rangy sound with silky highs to cut right through a mix, but without sounding thin.

By the way, I wasn't aiming at you Groberts, I was aiming at craven. Nice long reply though.

If someday I get a couple of 2k gigs, I'll save up and buy a nice c800g used on gearslutz. Again, made the mistake to buy a new Roland TD-12 when I should have gotten a great mic instead (was 4 years ago, I was young and foolish).

[craven]

Originally Posted by chrislago

But I just want that... Sound Urghhh. I still can't believe that after trying out all these goddamn mics, I'm stuck with the M-Audio Luna being a great fit for my voice... I'm thinking, come on now, there must be something else out there! I think great contenders would be the Hamburg and Vienna. I need a good mid rangy sound with silky highs to cut right through a mix, but without sounding thin.

By the way, I wasn't aiming at you Groberts, I was aiming at craven. Nice long reply though.

If someday I get a couple of 2k gigs, I'll save up and buy a nice c800g used on gearslutz. Again, made the mistake to buy a new Roland TD-12 when I should have gotten a great mic instead (was 4 years ago, I was young and foolish).

you could just get a manley gold or neuman u-87...

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by craven

you could just get a manley gold or neuman u-87...

I've been tempted by both, but I need to get more projects going for that. The U87 is a wonderful mic, but I do love the Manley a lot better, because it sounds more radio ready. Depends on the preamp too.

But yeah, try that MPA Gold, it'll make you want to bring the MP back to the store asap. I'm actually surprized, my Art MPA squares very well against the 737 and UA 610.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I
But yeah, try that MPA Gold, it'll make you want to bring the MP back to the store asap. I'm actually surprized, my Art MPA squares very well against the 737 and UA 610.

Dayam! See? you say things like that I want to forget about recording and go get an MPA Gold (and upgrade the tubes) ..and I just might since the price is really sweet. It can never hurt to have a few preamp options (like you can never try enough mics) right?

I was thinking I can sell my Blue Bluebird, especially hearing how awful it sounded on my drummer (who is a GREAT singer). But man, it's fat and warm on the low end and has a nice 10K bump. So it works great for my high/thin voice.

I am trying to decide whether to pull the trigger on an MPA Gold or not. That could be a nice fun flavor of tubey goodness. Does it work well for Bass DI? I can barely get my five string bass loud enough without clipping through my Fast track Ultra. But its working. Just not optimal.

[RTR]

I got my son a tube mp, and it works fine...I changed the tube but it made no difference since it's starved...also..IS it really worth returning for $30.00?

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by RTR

I got my son a tube mp, and it works fine...I changed the tube but it made no difference since it's starved...also..IS it really worth returning for $30.00?

he said it was $50 and he wants variety. That piece of junk isn't going to sound any different or better than the preamps built into his Fast track Ultra 8R. Now if we were talking about the ART MPA that would be another story but we aren't. I've used Tube MP's for years. Yeah for $30-$50 they make a decent DI for live use but really that's about it. They don't sound awful but they definitely are NOT an upgrade to most preamps in good audio interfaces.

I'd say get the $50 back and dedicate that to another microphone. In low end that could be a quarter of a new mic one that will actually make a variety in tonal options.

craven what is it you like about the MXL that you find drastically different than the CAD. If I were you I'd probably think about a KEL HM2.

[craven]

Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe

he said it was $50 and he wants variety. That piece of junk isn't going to sound any different or better than the preamps built into his Fast track Ultra 8R. Now if we were talking about the ART MPA that would be another story but we aren't. I've used Tube MP's for years. Yeah for $30-$50 they make a decent DI for live use but really that's about it. They don't sound awful but they definitely are NOT an upgrade to most preamps in good audio interfaces.

I'd say get the $50 back and dedicate that to another microphone. In low end that could be a quarter of a new mic one that will actually make a variety in tonal options.

craven what is it you like about the MXL that you find drastically different than the CAD. If I were you I'd probably think about a KEL HM2.

the mxl v63 is too bright and thin.....the V67G is flat and crisp...i love it.....but i LOVE the cad trion, its sooooo warm and just sooooooo NICE!

lol

[jaz49]

You're giving me some gear lust for that Trion...however I read that the Trion 6000 has the identical components as the GXL3000...just different packaging/body. Can anyone confirm this? I think the gxl3000 is the selectable pattern version of the gxl2400, which you can get for like $75 new on ebay. What do they cost to manufacture...like 10 or 20 bucks? Made in China I assume.

[craven]

Originally Posted by jaz49

You're giving me some gear lust for that Trion...however I read that the Trion 6000 has the identical components as the GXL3000...just different packaging/body. Can anyone confirm this? I think the gxl3000 is the selectable pattern version of the gxl2400, which you can get for like $75 new on ebay. What do they cost to manufacture...like 10 or 20 bucks? Made in China I assume.

i lusted over it, thats why i had to have it, the rode NT1A was actually impressive, if i ever have extra money to spend i will most likely get it, or the NTK, i did like it, but....

the cad is the best mic i have auditioned hands down....i am willing to bet a cad trion 6000 plugged up to an ART mpa gold mentioned above would be a killer combo...

save the trouble and get the trion 6000, its worth every penny!!

[manning1]

i once heard a example of a big studio AE bloke useing a mp to counter the
anti mp crowd. it was so good..i got an mp for fun.
there are various triks to useing the mp which ive posted before.
the song called summer in my sig used an mp (plus a mic pre in a cassette dek ...) for my vocs.
now its not a 2k pre...but definitely useable if one uses some triks with it.
haveing said that i'm still thinkin bout a vtb1 possibly.
after hearing john kenns nice vocs useing the vtb. and hearing how the vtb stacked
up against some higher priced competition.

i really do believe , and i'm not one, a uber AE could get really good results outta a mp.
its not as bad as some people paint it imho. particularly given the daft low price.
the key is TRICKS USEING IT.

[jaz49]

Originally Posted by craven

the cad is the best mic i have auditioned hands down....i am willing to bet a cad trion 6000 plugged up to an ART mpa gold mentioned above would be a killer combo...

save the trouble and get the trion 6000, its worth every penny!!

Did you ever google the trion? That reviewer I mentioned went so nuts over the mic you'd think he was getting sexually aroused or something. He's a pretty highly respected AE from what I can gather. Unfortunately they won't let me post a link to the review...don't know why though?? I think he found it more bright than warm, however.

[jaz49]

Not crazy about the vtb-1. It's useable, but I bought a used Aphex 107 for the same price as I paid for a second hand vtb1($85). I prefer the Aphex. For a little more money you can get a DMP3 or Rane. You can always check ebay for a used one.

[craven]

Originally Posted by jaz49

Did you ever google the trion? That reviewer I mentioned went so nuts over the mic you'd think he was getting sexually aroused or something. He's a pretty highly respected AE from what I can gather. Unfortunately they won't let me post a link to the review...don't know why though?? I think he found it more bright than warm, however.

hmmmm....pm me with it....i love the mic!

[jaz49]

got to run...I'll PM you later. Try google...just type in cad trion 6000 review. It should be on the first page.