best investments for a low budget home studio

[mikethedrummer]

First post, whats up
So heres the current set up:
Protools LE
003 Rack + interface
alesis dm5
ddrum red shot triggers
4 sm57s
1 ksm 27
3 audix f10s
1 audix f12
2 audix f15s

i am going to be coming into about $3k soon and im trying to figure out what the best investments would be.

The room is pretty decent. It doubles as a practice space for my band so i made walls out of plywood and auralex foam to isolate drums, vocals, and amps for individual tracking. the room lacks bass traps though, so im going to throw those on the tab.


im stuck between a matched pair of sm81s ($700) vs an AKG 414 ($1000)
my biggest concern is better overheads for tracking drums because the audix mics are absolutely miserable
the sm81s would be great for the stereo feel from xy micing
but the 414 is much clearer and could double as a vocal mic
ive heard nothing but stellar reviews about the blue blueberry ($1000)
but i havent heard of anyone using it for anything but vocals..
ive also had my eye on the TAB modded SM57s... but i cant find any comparisons between the stock and modded mics


a preamp is definitely on the list
im assuming its best to drop mad cash on the high end preamps but a $2k+ price tag makes me nervous

what would you pros do? i would prefer a well rounded set up that would allow me to face many different sounds, styles, and genres. thanks in advance!

EDIT: I should also mention that i would like to invest in equipment that i will not grow out of and that will last me many many years. one time investments!
also, the majority of my recordings are close mic'd and overproduced. i love the ambiance and reverb of a good room, but my studio sounds best dry and as isolated as possible. im not sure if that would call for a SDC vs a LDC or visa versa

EDIT 2: would an akg c414 cut it for commercial use? i.e is there a chance that the vocals for that pop song i heard on the radio this morning were recorded with a 414? or the voice over in that commercial i saw last night? etc..
if so, is there a chance that the 414 was ran through a neve 5012h portico duo mic pre?
if not, what mic and pre would be up to par?

[Corran]

If I were you, I'd get a pair of Oktava 012s off ebay and have them modded (about $500) and an Oktava 219 with the same deal (about $350).

I think those three mics will outperform having both an SM-81 pair and a 414, which would cost $1700 new.

But that's me. I'm sure you'll get a dozen other suggestions, each different from the last.

Edit: forgot to mention, 012s for OH obviously and ac. guitar, 219 for vocals and FOK, and generaly all-around duty.

[piano]

Well us pros would spend a LOT more money.

Personally, get one nice mic (in the 1K - 2K range --- lots of choices and lots of used deals out there!). Personally, I love my Lawson L47/ 251 tube mic. I don't feel a need to get any better - just different.

After that get a nice $2K compressor --- now I've blown your budget. tutt

Which comes to my best advice. Practice hard and meticulously THEN rent out a nice studio ---- lots of them out there and for relatively cheap.

That way you will get a great sound, great mixing/ recording service and be able to concentrate on the music.

Seriously..... unless you really want a pro studio then you will be spending the equivalent of a nice house ---- which by the way took me YEARS to accumulate and I'm over 40.

I hope that helps. Personally, I think Shure mics are mediocre - I'd stick with the 414's - fairly good all around mic.

So nice mic first.

[tINY]

Spend some time and a bit of money on the acoustics of the room.



-tINY

[piano]

Originally Posted by tINY

Spend some time and a bit of money on the acoustics of the room.



-tINY

Why? When the same amount of money can get a great sound in a studio.

The most I would ever advise to spend on acoustic treatment with that level of gear is a SE reflection filter Buy sE Electronics SERF Reflexion Filter 3.5 | Acoustic Treatments | Musician's Friend

[phonzadellika]

This is what I would do with your money...

Pres

Daking Mic Pre One (675)
OR
Mackie Onyx 800r (1000) (depending on how many things I may record at once)

Mics

A used pair of TLM 103's (1200) for overheads
Heil PR30 (250)
Shure SM7b (350)
Audix D6 (or whatever decent kick mic you want) (200)

If you're room is nice, TLM 103's make nice overheads. I think they sound great on most things percussive in nature. The other mics are mics that I own and like, and are versatile (I find uses for the D6 on a lot of things)

I'd also maybe consider getting the BLA mod.

[BOWIE]

I'll cast a vote for good mic preamps and a good comp. Personally, I can work with almost anything but if the preamps and compressors suck, it becomes a problem.

[Terry McInturff]

Originally Posted by tINY

Spend some time and a bit of money on the acoustics of the room.



-tINY

tINY is correct again. Couldnt agree more. Every dollar spent on correcting your control room acoustics is a far better use for the money.

After all...if you cannot accurately judge what is going to tape...many of your efforts...and your gear..are for naught.

[aclarson]

Originally Posted by piano

Why? When the same amount of money can get a great sound in a studio.

Ok, I think we've all heard this argument about 8 million times. I don't discount using a high-end studio when the time comes, I've done it several times myself, but having your own low-end studio is invaluable as a songwriting tool at the least, and a potential way to make your own albums if you get good at it. Just be realistic in you expectations, and work to improve incrementally. Seems like there's a lot of high-enders losing business and spamming the low-end forum lately.

Originally Posted by piano

The most I would ever advise to spend on acoustic treatment with that level of gear is a SE reflection filter Buy sE Electronics SERF Reflexion Filter 3.5 | Acoustic Treatments | Musician's Friend

No.

Don't waste your money on that thing, you can build one better for $20. DIY is easy for room treatment and costs pennies on the dollar. Get some rockwool or rigid fiberglass and cover it in burlap. I built 18 bass traps for less than $400, and it was more effective than any piece of gear I've ever bought. Tons of plans and ideas on the Gearslutz acoustics board. Easy to make look professional with a little effort.

Also in DIY land, if you have a little really basic electronics ability, you can build Seventh Circle pres, which have received TONS of high-end acclaim on Gearslutz. Modding mics is another popular DIY project as well. Check our the Geekslutz board for more stuff. DIY is definitely the best way to make your money go far in low-end land, I think.

[staticwhitesound]

asking pros what to do with $3k for a "low budget studio" will get all sorts of replies. all will be different and lot of these here are very helpful. so here's a NON-pro opinion...

it sounds like you want/need good overheads. i'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't need to drop $700-1000 on overheads to get a good overhead sound. also, i'm gonna say you should get a pair of overheads, not just one really, really good one. check out some of the audio technica 40xx mics. i got an (unmatched) pair of 4040s used on ebay and i really like them as overheads, and they can double as a vocal mic, or as a second mic on a gtr cab, or ... anything else although i only use them on overheads generally. you can go with the step(s) up as well (i have heard very good things about the 4047). i wouldn't buy the 30xx or 20xx models, as i've heard the difference in the step down from the 40s is pretty noticable, but that part is hearsay.

i'd also say you should think about getting an honest sounding, nice sounding room mic. again, you don't have to go with a $1000 mic, even though an akg 414 will sound awesome as a room mic. i use a LOT of room mic in my drum mix (and a lot of my guitar tracks), but it all depends on what kind of sound you want. fwiw, i use an akg c2000 which generally doesn't get much respect on boards but gives me a great usable mono room sound. i've also used my oktava 319 on the room which sounds good too, and different (a bit darker).

these are my thoughts, just based on my personal experiences.

good luck with whatever you choose,
pat

ps: you already have 4 sm57s, so i think if you're thinking about getting a TAB modded one, just bite the bullet and buy an sm7. the sm7 is one of my favorite mics.

[manning1]

mike.
one of the best drum sounds i ever heard was in a big studio.
with just 3 or 4 mics on drums.
the oh'ds were modded cheap shak pzm's.

before spending lots of money my advice would be to rent some hi end pre's n mics, then
throw some low end ringers into the testing process. like rane ms1b mic pre n a couple of pzm's for oh'ds. try a throwaway free speaker as a mic on the kik,...you can always sample replace it.
with a decent kik sample.

haveing said the above tho'//n mebe some will disagree...
i gotta say a coupla weeks back i heard a very good drummer playing pads live
triggering the bfd new release installed on a puter.
i was impressed. sounded great n i'm not sure one could equal the drum sound
with even a goodly investment in mics n pre's.
just wish i could afford bfd.

[mikethedrummer]

Thank you guys so much for the quick replies!

I have heard good things about the Oktava mics especially when they are modded. This website is pretty reasonable Oktava MK-012 Modification Kits and Service

my main concern at the moment is to purchase equipment that i wont grow out of. i go to school for recording at Flashpoint Academy in Chicago. the studio set up there is by far better than any studios id be renting, plus once you spend money in a studio, you cant go back in time and record a new song. working under the pressure of the clock and wallet only adds stress and, imo, produces rushed recordings (at least on my budget) plus that also leaves me with negative income. id like to keep the overhead down instead of making an artist pay me extra to rent a studio.

i will take pictures of the room and my treatment. diy sounds pretty good to me though =]

i was looking into neve and great river preamps. 2 inputs should be sufficient, the rack+ has some pretty decent pres in the first place. the BLA mod looks really incredible, unfortunately i dont think they have a set up for the rack+ yet. theyre down the street from me so ill give them a call regardless.

the shure sm7b gets incredible reviews all over the board, but is it really comparable to a mic such as the akg 414 or blue mics? id love to hear some shoot offs.

[Corran]

For the SM7 vs. 414 et al, I think it all depends on what your recording. I do think the 012s on OH and acoustic guitar will be hard to beat until you've got some serious money.

[staticwhitesound]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer

the shure sm7b gets incredible reviews all over the board, but is it really comparable to a mic such as the akg 414 or blue mics? id love to hear some shoot offs.

i don't have an akg 414 so i can't speak specifics on that, but these are, by design, two very different mics. because the 414 is a condenser it's going to pick up a lot more room, and the sm7 is going to be a lot more forgiving in a bad room, because its a dynamic. also, with the 414 you get your choice of omnidirectional, wide cardioid, cardioid, hypercardioid, or figure eight patterns. i wouldn't compare them, but if i had the money and didn't have either, i'd buy both.

[mikethedrummer]

Originally Posted by Corran

For the SM7 vs. 414 et al, I think it all depends on what your recording. I do think the 012s on OH and acoustic guitar will be hard to beat until you've got some serious money.

i would love to see a comparison or at least some of your own recordings with the modded 012s. if they really are crystal clear and rather inexpensive they definitely seem to be the way to go


EDIT: corran, i noticed you have a really nice studio set up of your own
is there any way i could convince you to do a shoot out w the 012s, sm 81s? =]

[Corran]

I actually just got rid of my 81 since it wasn't being used. I guess I should take it off my page.

I will tell you though, the 81 requires a lot of clean gain, which may or may not make a difference to you.

But, here's an example of a drumset recording with just the 012s on OHs:

http://www.oceanstarproductions.com/...%20Rollins.mp3

Oh yeah these are unmodded so get them modded and they'll be even better.

[shaneoconnor]

a clean, decent console with a well designed patchbay will go so much further than some semi-slutty mic.

[soul&folk]

do yourself a big favor. Before you buy a pair of SM81s, go on ebay and buy a pair of superlux s241/u3 mics. They will sound awesome. If you don't like them sell them on ebay for $30 less per mic. I'm pretty sure you won't need to do that. You'll probably end up thanking me for saving you hundreds of dollars. With the money saved, go for some good preamps!

I am not the seller but I did buy a pair of these over a year ago and I am really happy with them!

[Corran]

That Superlux looks like just another rebranded Chinese mic, same as the MXL 603 and all those others. The shockmount is cool though.

If it's not, well then the price is good so I wouldn't mind trying a pair. What's the story behind them?

[mikethedrummer]

the drums sound really really nice in that mp3. though that is also a jazz drummer playing jazz. most of my recordings will involve me or the artist beating the drums to death. would the mics respond with such detail in a much louder more aggressive environment?

can anyone else second the superlux s241s? at $116 a mic... =0

[Corran]

Yeah they do well with that too. The only file I have around right now in that situation was done at a jam session with some friends so it's not the best recording. If you reallllly want to hear it PM me but it's not something for "public consumption", you know?

[aussie_techie]

do you have monitors?

[soul&folk]

Originally Posted by Corran

That Superlux looks like just another rebranded Chinese mic, same as the MXL 603 and all those others. The shockmount is cool though.

If it's not, well then the price is good so I wouldn't mind trying a pair. What's the story behind them?

I don't know anything about them other than they are great mics. They're made by Avlex, but that doesn't say much to me. They feel very solid, and built with quality. I use them on acoustic guitar and overheads. I've recorded a few live performances with a pair and was amazed how well they picked up all the range of sounds. Try 'em and you'll see.

Here's a review of them. Took the words right out of my mouth!

[Corran]

Nah, a little research and I'm almost positive they are the same old mic.

Here, if you want more of them, get them for half price with a different name:

300C

[soul&folk]

I have no way to do that research but I can only say that everything I've used this mic for has come out very well. Not harsh or anything that would indicate it's a low class mic. Hey, if you don't care to try, that's no skin off my back! I was trying to share something that's worked out well for me, that's all.

A close up picture and specs are here. I know a company's info about its own products can be suspect, but at least take note that they're saying different things than the mic you linked to - Is "gold sputtered" supposed to be something special? no mention of it in your link. The casing while appearing similar, is not the same. Not the body and not the capsule. So you decide.

[mikethedrummer]

i personally do not have monitors, but i have beyerdynamic dt770s and full access to my school's mixing rooms with really nice monitors. theres even a 5:1 surround sound mixing room =]
but i have had my eye on a pair of KRKs. they seem well worth the money

the 300Cs are quite the deal @ $130 a pair =0
but are they really comparable to sm81s or the modded 012s?
i really want to make a one time investment

soul&folk, id love to hear some of your recordings with them.

[Lenny]

I don't know how helpful i will be, or how relevent it is now because i haven't priced or kept up with things for awhile. I think a large condenser mic for vocals would be the priority, that could also be used for other instruments, such as a 414. I would rather have just one channel or two channels of the best gear i could buy, new or used that, in your words would be useful for years to come, than a handful of cheap stuff that becomes outdated or thrown in the garbage. Back when, i bought mostly api lunchbox and 200 series racks where you can buy the modules and expand later on. You initially have to buy the rack, but the modules afterwords are very reasonable.

[Mixbuster]

Here is the best way to spend your money on. I have never seen such a good explanation why acoutsics is important. Creds to Ethan and realtraps..

RealTraps - Ultimate Home Studio

[Strange Leaf]

Originally Posted by Mixbuster

Here is the best way to spend your money on. I have never seen such a good explanation why acoutsics is important. Creds to Ethan and realtraps..

RealTraps - Ultimate Home Studio

That guy needs some botox to stop his eyebrowns from going crazy.

[soul&folk]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer

soul&folk, id love to hear some of your recordings with them.

I hope to get to that soon enough. There are some personal matters slowing things down for me right now. work. family stuff...

In the meantime, CHECK THIS CAD e70 OUT!!! It looks identical to the superlux s241/3u. The specs are close enough and the charts too so that they might have been altered just a tiny bit so it doesn't seem too obvious that they are the same mic.

Assuming it's the same mic, they come with 2 capsules in the CAD incarnation. They're also only $99 dollars at musiciansfriend, but they're only available in 3 weeks I don't know about if CAD is offering the shockmounts or windscreens that I've got in the superlux version.

If this is the same mic as I've got with an extra capsule, it's really an amazing deal.