Mixing Console Gain Structure

[BFSound]

Ok so i have read through this s few times and there seems to be a lot of back and forth about setting proper gain structure? So what is the prefered of optimal method.

I always wold set my master and channel faders to unity and then set my channel strip gain until the input signal is riding around 0db. I prefer to have my entire system mix run around 0 db with some things that spike through like heavy double kick or something like that or a loud vocal scream.

I saw a video on setting gain structure which stated to turn1.) the amps off or all the way down

2.) set all the faders to unity or just above, and set master fader to unity or just below.

and 3.) turn the input gain up until it peaks and then back off a bit.

Then go back and turn up the amps until the sound level is comfortable or at a desirable level?

I always have my amps gain set to 0 or all the way up is this wrong i always thought it would give me more head room. But maybe im mistaken.

OP where in MN you at i live just south of the cities, where did or are you going to school?

[Matt Syson]

Hi
I have never worked live or even dead sound but I have been building mixers for several companies over 30 years.
First observation: the frequency response is VERY unlikely to change, certainly not at LF anywhere on the travel of the fader. Any observed effect is most likely the hearing 'change with absolute level' as reported previously, due to your ears.
Second: desks are designed for unity gain 'setup' of channel and usually master faders. This allows the best audio performance (least noise and distortion).
Some desks may have issues with 'prefader headroom' especially the cheaper designs with unbalanced insert sends in which case getting the signal to the correct level with the gain pot is more critical. This is down to specific desks and circumstances.
I don't know whether typically 10dB on a channel fader plus another 10 dB on the master is sufficient range for a full concert, I imagine it must be as most desks are built this way.
The way BF Sound describes, sounds about right as a starting point but of course if you know you will be working with a particularly dynamic performer you may need to adjust your practice accordingly.
Basically it is down to LEARNING YOUR particular desk and it's foibles.
Regarding the last statement by BF, it depends on the actual gain available from your amps. You should nominally be running them at about the '0' setting if that gives you sufficient volume for the performance, assuming the desk maximum output is not being reached.
A spot of manual reading is appropriate here. The desk should be puting out around +4dB (0 VU) when the sound level is close to the maximum wished.
From a personal perspective sound engineers who permit distorted or seriously degraded audio should be forcibly removed, there is NO excuse!
Matt S

[BFSound]

Originally Posted by Matt Syson

Hi
I have never worked live or even dead sound but I have been building mixers for several companies over 30 years.
First observation: the frequency response is VERY unlikely to change, certainly not at LF anywhere on the travel of the fader. Any observed effect is most likely the hearing 'change with absolute level' as reported previously, due to your ears.
Second: desks are designed for unity gain 'setup' of channel and usually master faders. This allows the best audio performance (least noise and distortion).
Some desks may have issues with 'prefader headroom' especially the cheaper designs with unbalanced insert sends in which case getting the signal to the correct level with the gain pot is more critical. This is down to specific desks and circumstances.
I don't know whether typically 10dB on a channel fader plus another 10 dB on the master is sufficient range for a full concert, I imagine it must be as most desks are built this way.
The way BF Sound describes, sounds about right as a starting point but of course if you know you will be working with a particularly dynamic performer you may need to adjust your practice accordingly.
Basically it is down to LEARNING YOUR particular desk and it's foibles.
Regarding the last statement by BF, it depends on the actual gain available from your amps. You should nominally be running them at about the '0' setting if that gives you sufficient volume for the performance, assuming the desk maximum output is not being reached.
A spot of manual reading is appropriate here. The desk should be puting out around +4dB (0 VU) when the sound level is close to the maximum wished.
From a personal perspective sound engineers who permit distorted or seriously degraded audio should be forcibly removed, there is NO excuse!
Matt S

Cool yea i always have plenty of volume with them set to 0. I always run my master mix out at 0db with like i said the occasional spike of like +3-6db max. I never clip or hear any distortion and my amps barely get warm nor do they ever come close to clipping when set the way they are . So im assuming im doing good so far, This is a practice pa too. Out board is a Crest CPM32 too me a fairly high quality analog, there are better though but in the 2k price range i feel its very nice.

Thanks for the input. thumbsup