I need a U87 style of mic at a decent price range, help!

[Heartfelt]

hmmmm

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by modooo

"all began with handcrafted electronic like neumann mics. wake up! the cheap mics are just a marketing idea. it has a reason that the price of an old u47 is still so high." its not a hype. its quality. (perhaps a hype for people who have no bless but i dont count them)

...imagine that...8 pages of chatter and he sums it all up in one small paragraph...

[getarzan]

Yoda?


I checked this thread out ; as I'm using an Sm7b a lot , and enjoying it. It's a little on the quiet side , but it's miles ahead of the cheap Chinese sound. I was actually looking to see if anyone had advice in regard to upgrading from this particular mike without spending a fortune. Maybe I'll give it a try through my Germaniums.


If anyone has a - post Sm7b mic consideration , I'd be curious. I'd like to ask this question in the high end forum to avoid hearing too many replies from people who just list what they have , instead of what's best , but I'm afraid I'll get too many answers there , where people will just list the most expensive mics sold.


I will be surprised to see who has the intestinal fortitude to make it this far into this thread as well.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by getarzan

Yoda?


I checked this thread out ; as I'm using an Sm7b a lot , and enjoying it. It's a little on the quiet side , but it's miles ahead of the cheap Chinese sound. I was actually looking to see if anyone had advice in regard to upgrading from this particular mike without spending a fortune. Maybe I'll give it a try through my Germaniums.


If anyone has a - post Sm7b mic consideration , I'd be curious. I'd like to ask this question in the high end forum to avoid hearing too many replies from people who just list what they have , instead of what's best , but I'm afraid I'll get too many answers there , where people will just list the most expensive mics sold.


I will be surprised to see who has the intestinal fortitude to make it this far into this thread as well.

I think if you get a good enough preamp with enough clean gain, you should be fine with the sm7b.

[modooo]

Originally Posted by chrislago

gain, you should be fine with the sm7b.

absolutely right.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by getarzan

...I'm using an Sm7b a lot , and enjoying it. It's a little on the quiet side , but it's miles ahead of the cheap Chinese sound. I was actually looking to see if anyone had advice in regard to upgrading from this particular mike without spending a fortune.

Many people know I'm a proponent of leveraging an investement in gear, rather than replacing it. With that strategy in mind I'd like to suggest the TritonAudio FetHead in-line preamp. The FetHead offers 20dB of clean, quiet gain in an XLR-F / XLR-M form factor. Its made in The Netherlands by some fine circuit wonks who are also into dub Reggae - so I'm very happy to be associated with them as their US sales agent.

Simply place the Fethead in-line between the SM7b and your current preamp - it will provide an ideal impedance load to your mic, raise its output level significantly, drive the mic cable better and do it all very quietly.

Here's an excerpt from an email I got yesterday about the Fethead...

Hi Michael,

Best $100 I’ve ever spent.

I wanted to give you some feedback on the FetHead and ask you if you have any left in stock. I need to get another one, and would love to be able to get it within the next week or two.

It’s really going to solve a longstanding problem for me and open up a bunch of new options. I have some pretty cool sounding ribbon mics: M160, M500 (Sank modified), M260 (Sank modified), and American DR332 (Sank modified with the dynamic capsule disabled) that all have interesting and useful characters depending on the source, but I haven’t been able to use for quieter sources because they have too much noise when gained up. Well, so far I’ve used the fathead with all 4, and it completely solves that problem. It also seems to isolate the ribbons from hum much better than before regardless of the source level, even in transformer front end mic pre.

It seems absolutely transparent and has plenty of headroom for the usages that I’m going to want it for. I also tried it with an RE-20 for bridge mic on upright bass, which is something that I’ve tried a lot in the past, but have had some difficulty, and with the fethead it made it sound fantastic (of course this upright bass sounded great, which always helps).

The Fethead is a new and you won't find many other reviews on the Web yet. But I can tell you it is the best product on the market of its type.

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by getarzan

If anyone has a - post Sm7b mic consideration , I'd be curious. I'd like to ask this question in the high end forum to avoid hearing too many replies from people who just list what they have , instead of what's best , but I'm afraid I'll get too many answers there , where people will just list the most expensive mics sold.

...for those of us who really enjoy using an SM7 but want a bit of a "variation on a theme" option, I can offer up two recommendations...the first is the Heil PR-40, another dynamic mic (from the genius of Bob Heil) that is "voiced" to sound more like a condenser...somewhat similar to the SM7 but with more "air" and "sheen" while maintaining a tight bass response...definately very condenser-like while still offering good ambient noise rejection like the SM7...
...the other option is the KEL HM-2d...this time it's a condenser mic "voiced" like a dynamic...again, it's a bit of a variation on the SM7 sound but with much higher output and more bass boost as well as a bit more condenser "sheen"...thick and meaty, but still well defined...
...both mics offer a nice option to the SM7 which is often referred to as a bit too "flat" or one-dimensional...each of the two recommended mics have an "airier" characteristic that adds depth to the tone...
...understand, that these are very affordable "flava" options to the SM7, not replacements nor upgrades...by all means, keep that SM7B and put it to work...one of the great "keeper" bargains in the pro audio marketplace... ...just my two-cents...

[Corran]

The FetHead is a good product. Really helps ribbon mics get enough gain, so obviously it should work with the SM7.

[getarzan]

The Fethead sounds pretty interesting. The Sm7b was a mic I stumbled across on my own before I came to this site. The guys who come here are fortunate to learn about it. It's price / value are unmatched. I was just wondering what other mics could sonically compare , and still be at least near competitive in price. The old rule , you get what you pay for generally stands true.


I've got an LA-610 which doesn't quite have enough gain to satisfy me with the Sm7b. I've been too lazy to try it with my Germaniums , as I record live a lot and use those with bass and drums with huge success. I should expend all of my resources before spending more money. Sometimes just trying to explain your problems can help you find your own solutions.


Who manufactures the Fethead and where is it sold?

[getarzan]

2009 Electronic Musician magazine "Editors Choice" Award Winner:
Cascade "Gomez" Michael Joly Edition ribbon mic
Have you heard the "Ultimate MXL 603 Modification"?



Oops. Didn't pay much attention to the Link under the photo.

[Michael_Joly]

Good. My attempt at subtlety is succeeding.

[chickencoop]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Good. My attempt at subtly is succeeding.

[Unagi]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Please mention anything other than SM7, and if you do mention SM7, I want to hear a vocal sample!

SM7.

Samples:







YMMV

[Chris Lago]

Didn't he use the Sony c800g for further albums? I think he may have used a special U47 mic for background vocals on thriller.

[Hibernatus]

Can someone recommend a couple reasonably priced preamps for sm57 and sm7b? I get the feeling that my Mackie Satellite won't be enough. Are tube preamps better for death metal vocals?

[Blast9]

The Onyx Satellite has more than enough clean gain to handle those thumbsup

Nice clear, quality sound, though can be a little sibilant with brighter mics

[Hibernatus]

Originally Posted by Blast9

The Onyx Satellite has more than enough clean gain to handle those thumbsup

Nice clear, quality sound, though can be a little sibilant with brighter mics

Oh well then, even better. Still, what about the tube preamps? Are there any advantages for death vocals?

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Hibernatus

Oh well then, even better. Still, what about the tube preamps? Are there any advantages for death vocals?

Yes definitely, it can soften harsh vocals.

[Hibernatus]

So what would be some of the cheapest decent tube preamps for both death vocals and a good DI bass?

[getarzan]

death vocals -> sounds like you're dying. I would look at the Brick. Economical solution.

[modooo]

chris, If you say you are searching for an u87 sound and cant afford the expensive thing i would suggest buying a shure sm7 and you will be very happy with your mid pop voice. You can play around with the sm7 modes but i recommend low cut on and midhigh boost on which will boost a litle bit around 2000khz. The highs sound pretty good in the mix for pop and rock. if you have no good tube gear you should not buy an u87 yet. For my taste the sm7 is the best dynamic mictrophone i have had in my hands... the modes sound so different that you can use it for many issues. You are producing ambitious music, so you need an abitious mic. go for it you will never rue it! no fear buying it in used condition. its very robust.

[modooo]

Originally Posted by Hibernatus

So what would be some of the cheapest decent tube preamps for both death vocals and a good DI bass?

The only "cheap" and nothing wrong saying GOOD tube preamp is The Brick from Groovetubes. It is a real solid tube pre/di handstuffed. The electronic parts are looking serious especially the handmade power tranny they use. All other Tube things i saw in this price league are cheap fabric made things often with hum and terrible rotary pots.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by modooo

chris, If you say you are searching for an u87 sound and cant afford the expensive thing i would suggest buying a shure sm7 and you will be very happy with your mid pop voice. You can play around with the sm7 modes but i recommend low cut on and midhigh boost on which will boost a litle bit around 2000khz. The highs sound pretty good in the mix for pop and rock. if you have no good tube gear you should not buy an u87 yet. For my taste the sm7 is the best dynamic mictrophone i have had in my hands... the modes sound so different that you can use it for many issues. You are producing ambitious music, so you need an abitious mic. go for it you will never rue it! no fear buying it in used condition. its very robust.

Great, I wanted to rent it this weekend but I have a bunch of assignments due for school, and I probably won't be able to try it out until I finish my papers, which means, 2 more weeks. But! I will be getting my brand new CPU with i7 processor, 12 gigs ram DDR3 at the same time so I'll probably rent it to try it out.

As much as I want an SM7, I still need to buy these:

Auralex designer kit to remove most of the echos in my room (buying tomorrow)
Midi Controller (possibly the Novation Remote SL, I just love the Automap feature)

and finally, I'll get the SM7b.

So the midi controller will probably eat up a lot of my money right now, and having worked with the Remote Zero SL, It feels weird making music. I just feel incomplete, so I've mostly been doing vocal session work and nothing else. Oh and beat making too. As you can tell, I'm a little strapped for cash right now! By the way, I do have a decent Tube Preamp (Art Digital MPA). I had to sell My Kel Audio HM-7U because I didn't like how warm it sounded. I ordered an HM-1 instead and hopefully I'll get it on monday.

By The Way, If any of you are interested in my mastering services, let me know. I only charge $50 per song and I offer pro quality masters.

[getarzan]

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by getarzan

Yeah, life can be scary

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by getarzan

death vocals -> sounds like you're dying. I would look at the Brick. Economical solution.

Originally Posted by modooo

The only "cheap" and nothing wrong saying GOOD tube preamp is The Brick from Groovetubes. It is a real solid tube pre/di handstuffed. The electronic parts are looking serious especially the handmade power tranny they use. All other Tube things i saw in this price league are cheap fabric made things often with hum and terrible rotary pots.

...if you're thinking of pairing the Brick with an SM7B, save yourself the disappointment...as I have pointed out before, the Brick is too anemic to drive an SM7 into it's comfort zone (only 55dB output)...not to mention, once you get to the upper gain limits of the Brick, noise also becomes an issue...trying to boost output in your DAW will only serve to enhance noise issues...cheaper tube type preamps tend to exhibit high noise floors, and IMHO aren't the best match for an SM7...pair the SM7 with a clean mic pre with at least 62-65dB of output (or more) and the SM7 will show it's stuff...good results have been reported using an M-Audio DMP-3 or Rane MSB-1, both relatively inexpensive mic pres...add compression (in or out of the box) and your good-to-go...check out PSP's Vintage Warmer plugin for added warmth and color (old-school tape saturation) and surpress your "toob" fixation...

PS...sold my Brick and bought a Golden Age Pre73...much better!

[getarzan]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Yeah, life can be scary

$50 a song for masters , considering your questions..... I known studios with YEARS of experience who charge the same.


Sorry , not trying to start an argument , just clarifying the scared look.

[getarzan]

Originally Posted by kidvybes

...if you're thinking of pairing the Brick with an SM7B, save yourself the disappointment...as I have pointed out before, the Brick is too anemic to drive an SM7 into it's comfort zone (only 55dB output)...not to mention, once you get to the upper gain limits of the Brick, noise also becomes an issue...trying to boost output in your DAW will only serve to enhance noise issues...cheaper tube type preamps tend to exhibit high noise floors, and IMHO aren't the best match for an SM7...pair the SM7 with a clean mic pre with at least 62-65dB of output (or more) and the SM7 will show it's stuff...good results have been reported using an M-Audio DMP-3 or Rane MSB-1, both relatively inexpensive mic pres...add compression (in or out of the box) and your good-to-go...check out PSP's Vintage Warmer plugin for added warmth and color (old-school tape saturation) and surpress your "toob" fixation...

PS...sold my Brick and bought a Golden Age Pre73...much better!

The man asked for "CHEAP" , "TUBE" , and "GOOD" - Pretty tall order. I gave him a logical solution. As far as using it with the Sm7b , couldn't say. Maybe with the help of that new Fethead device to give 20db of gain before it. He can head over to the highend forum for much better ( $$$ ) solutions I'm sure.

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by getarzan

The man asked for "CHEAP" , "TUBE" , and "GOOD" - Pretty tall order. I gave him a logical solution. As far as using it with the Sm7b , couldn't say. Maybe with the help of that new Fethead device to give 20db of gain before it. He can head over to the highend forum for much better ( $$$ ) solutions I'm sure.

...the Brick makes a much better (actually great) bass DI than it does a mic pre...at $400 for a single channel there's many better options if it's a mic preamp you're looking for...can't comment on the Fethead, but noise is an issue with the Brick, and although the Fethead may not add to the equation, it won't "clean up" the signal...IMHO, the Brick is overrated as a mic pre...

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by getarzan

$50 a song for masters , considering your questions..... I known studios with YEARS of experience who charge the same.


Sorry , not trying to start an argument , just clarifying the scared look.

My questions have nothing to do with how good I am at mastering.