MXL Mics - Which models are good?

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by rodreb

Of all the MXL mics, which are good and which ones suck?

It just occurred to me the MXL 4000 is really great for one purpose - studio bling. I think this is the biggest "holy shit look at that mic" LDC available in the low end world. Have a little badge with your studio name made to cover up the MXL logo, put it up on a stand in the corner and let it do its job - without plugging it in.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

It just occurred to me the MXL 4000 is really great for one purpose - studio bling. I think this is the biggest "holy shit look at that mic" LDC available in the low end world. Have a little badge with your studio name made to cover up the MXL logo, put it up on a stand in the corner and let it do its job - without plugging it in.

Thanks, I needed some humor this morning.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

It just occurred to me the MXL 4000 is really great for one purpose - studio bling. I think this is the biggest "holy shit look at that mic" LDC available in the low end world. Have a little badge with your studio name made to cover up the MXL logo, put it up on a stand in the corner and let it do its job - without plugging it in.

That'll make those dumbass rappers believe that they are part of a pro project

[illacov]

Originally Posted by chrislago

That'll make those dumbass rappers believe that they are part of a pro project

I still think its a decent looking mic stock.

As far as the whole changing the capsule out business, I'll pass. I think it would be more worthwhile to add a hff change to the circuit and keep the stock capsule.

Nothing wrong with a stock k67 capsule if you know what to do with it.

Last I checked, the K67/87 capsule sounds fine with a fet and hff , its called a U87.

Peace
Illumination

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by illacov

I still think its a decent looking mic stock.

As far as the whole changing the capsule out business, I'll pass. I think it would be more worthwhile to add a hff change to the circuit and keep the stock capsule.

Nothing wrong with a stock k67 capsule if you know what to do with it.

Last I checked, the K67/87 capsule sounds fine with a fet and hff , its called a U87.

Peace
Illumination

I would like to know how to do that too.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

I would like to know how to do that too.

pm'd you

Peace
Illumination

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by illacov

pm'd you

Peace
Illumination

PM'd you back, thanks too!

[Michael_Joly]

Yes, the frequency response of a K67-type capsule can be tailored with a low-pass filter as was done in the U 67 and U 87. But this capsule has more phase shift than a K47-type. So correcting frequency response with yet another filter introduces more phase shift. Klaus Heyne spoke about K67 phase shift in an old interview:

"I never liked some of the phase shift you get with these capsules. For example, you speak into the front of the microphone, the sound hits the front diaphragm, but because it is a cardioid and it goes by addition and subtraction, you get it by rear entry as well, but the rear entry is time delayed.

But there are ways to minimize this. Neumann made a beautiful capsule, with almost zero time delay, the M49 capsule and the U47 capsule. It was incredible. But they didn’t have high frequencies, it topped out at about 14kHz. Even so, it had this wonderful relaxed, open, intimate thing that draws you in emotionally because it didn’t have phase shift.

However, the 87 and 67 capsules have more sizzle, are more rock and roll, but they have more phase shift and are tiring over time." (source: "Klaus Heyne, Master of Modification" article by Bruce Borgerson).

An important aspect of my work has been to reduce phase shift in audio systems and I prefer the midrange accuracy of a K47-type capsule with a flat response circuit because of its low phase shift.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Yes, the frequency response of a K67-type capsule can be tailored with a low-pass filter as was done in the U 67 and U 87. But this capsule has more phase shift than a K47-type. So correcting frequency response with yet another filter introduces more phase shift. Klaus Heyne spoke about K67 phase shift in an old interview:

"I never liked some of the phase shift you get with these capsules. For example, you speak into the front of the microphone, the sound hits the front diaphragm, but because it is a cardioid and it goes by addition and subtraction, you get it by rear entry as well, but the rear entry is time delayed.

But there are ways to minimize this. Neumann made a beautiful capsule, with almost zero time delay, the M49 capsule and the U47 capsule. It was incredible. But they didn’t have high frequencies, it topped out at about 14kHz. Even so, it had this wonderful relaxed, open, intimate thing that draws you in emotionally because it didn’t have phase shift.

However, the 87 and 67 capsules have more sizzle, are more rock and roll, but they have more phase shift and are tiring over time." (source: "Klaus Heyne, Master of Modification" article by Bruce Borgerson).

An important aspect of my work has been to reduce phase shift in audio systems and I prefer the midrange accuracy of a K47-type capsule with a flat response circuit because of its low phase shift.

So because Klaus said XYZ about K67 capsules you think K47s are the answer?? Come on Mike.

U87s and U67s are not evil. And despite Klaus saying that in a quote, history has shown us just how tired people get with the sound of U87s and U67s in recordings.

For example, just how tiring is Nora Jones' voice on "Don't know why you didn't come."???? The people that recorded her voice had a choice of any mic to capture that performance and they went U67. She would have sounded good on any mic and yet they went completely contrary to what Klaus is quoted as saying and what you're standing behind regarding K67s.



Peace
Illumination

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Yes, the frequency response of a K67-type capsule can be tailored with a low-pass filter as was done in the U 67 and U 87. But this capsule has more phase shift than a K47-type. So correcting frequency response with yet another filter introduces more phase shift. Klaus Heyne spoke about K67 phase shift in an old interview:

"I never liked some of the phase shift you get with these capsules. For example, you speak into the front of the microphone, the sound hits the front diaphragm, but because it is a cardioid and it goes by addition and subtraction, you get it by rear entry as well, but the rear entry is time delayed.

But there are ways to minimize this. Neumann made a beautiful capsule, with almost zero time delay, the M49 capsule and the U47 capsule. It was incredible. But they didn’t have high frequencies, it topped out at about 14kHz. Even so, it had this wonderful relaxed, open, intimate thing that draws you in emotionally because it didn’t have phase shift.

However, the 87 and 67 capsules have more sizzle, are more rock and roll, but they have more phase shift and are tiring over time." (source: "Klaus Heyne, Master of Modification" article by Bruce Borgerson).

An important aspect of my work has been to reduce phase shift in audio systems and I prefer the midrange accuracy of a K47-type capsule with a flat response circuit because of its low phase shift.

How much phase shift are we talking about?
That versus the proven usefulness of those mics would make me want to keep the "flavaz" in the list.
I just looked at the guts of the 87, 89, 47fet, and to me, I like the modded Oktava, with a high pass, lo pass, -10 pad option. The xformer makes a noise I like. I like the sound of the 47 capsule, I don't like the 87 by itself, but, it sits in a mix and that's why I reach for them. I'd like to tinker with some of my 67 capsules circuits to find a "flava" I like.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by illacov

So because Klaus said XYZ about K67 capsules you think K47s are the answer?? Come on Mike.

U87s and U67s are not evil. And despite Klaus saying that in a quote, history has shown us just how tired people get with the sound of U87s and U67s in recordings.

For example, just how tiring is Nora Jones' voice on "Don't know why you didn't come."???? The people that recorded her voice had a choice of any mic to capture that performance and they went U67. She would have sounded good on any mic and yet they went completely contrary to what Klaus is quoted as saying and what you're standing behind regarding K67s.



Peace
Illumination

Gotta say, when record a female voice like hers in a decent place, I grab a 67 first.
In fact, that's the only real use I've ever used a 67 on. It just works on girls voices.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Gotta say, when record a female voice like hers in a decent place, I grab a 67 first.
In fact, that's the only real use I've ever used a 67 on. It just works on girls voices.

So far my absolute fave on male vocals is my JJ Audio Mutt, which is very close to his Taho 67 mic, however I have a really special place in my heart for my MK319 Royer Country Boy tube mic, that I've dubbed the Kosmonaut. I mean it really sounds sweet on male vocals and it has just the right touch of top end.

But both mics have their uses. I'm currently sourcing parts for my U47 attempt, so far I'm really digging ADK's K47 that they use in their Berliner mics. I'll probably go for a AMI transformer with a nice tube, perhaps sub miniature that can give me the thump I want. I'm probably going to make my U47 a bottle mic. I've seen some cheap Chinese ones on ebay that have lots of room inside them for building circuits.

So far MXL's 992 has been the ULTIMATE mic for mods and builders. This thing is a tank shell, nearly 9 inches long and almost 3 inches wide, you could club someone to death with this thing. Man it is HUGE!!! The mic that it ships with, MXL 993 is actually a nice mic to throw a tube circuit into, mine has a 5703 tube with a Cinemag transformer. I'm going to get a bayonette adapter for it and see what I can snag on ebay. stike


Peace
Illumination

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by illacov

...So because Klaus said XYZ about K67 capsules you think K47s are the answer?? Come on Mike...

My feelings about the K67 capsule derive from my ears. Not a written statement from Klaus Heyne. I offered that quote as an old-fashioned way of substatiating my opinion - a citation (a practice sorely lacking on Gearslutz).

My 15-year training with David Blackmer (dbx Inc. and Earthworks founder) taught me to be exceptionally sensitive to midrange phase shift and the effect this has on resolution and detail.

A low phase shift system allow great detail and resolution to be achieved with resorting to EQ boost.

Yes, recording engineers and artists love all sorts of audio systems with coloration provided by phase shift. But the "sound" of OktavaMod and Michael Joly Editions is defined, in part, by low phase shift audio.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

My feelings about the K67 capsule derive from my ears. Not a written statement from Klaus Heyne. I offered that quote as an old-fashioned way of substatiating my opinion - a citation (a practice sorely lacking on Gearslutz).

My 15-year training with David Blackmer (dbx Inc. and Earthworks founder) taught me to be exceptionally sensitive to midrange phase shift and the effect this has on resolution and detail.

A low phase shift system allow great detail and resolution to be achieved with resorting to EQ boost.

Yes, recording engineers and artists love all sorts of audio systems with coloration provided by phase shift. But the "sound" of OktavaMod and Michael Joly Editions is defined, in part, by low phase shift audio.

Michael, I have a question. Will you eventually build a boutique brand instead of mods only? I'm really curious.

[JStuart]

Originally Posted by illacov

For example, just how tiring is Nora Jones' voice on "Don't know why you didn't come."???? The people that recorded her voice had a choice of any mic to capture that performance and they went U67. She would have sounded good on any mic and yet they went completely contrary to what Klaus is quoted as saying and what you're standing behind regarding K67s.

That was an M49 actually---from the guy who recorded it:

How They Got That Sound

[illacov]

Whoops!!

I went back a few years here and found my article. They used a U67 on her piano on certain songs but all vocals were M49.

I stand corrected.

However,

Karen Carpenter + U87. Nuff said.

Peace
Illumination

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by chrislago

Michael, I have a question. Will you eventually build a boutique brand instead of mods only? I'm really curious.

Hey Chris, good question. The answer is yes. The MJE-K47 capsule is the LDC heart, the MJE-K47H capsule head packages are the first products and a line of stand alone mics will follow early in 2010. The brand will be MJE - Michael Joly Editions. This will allow me to bring out signature branded products and expand my co-branding activities with other companies. The mics will be voiced for the "digital generation". In the case of vocal mics this means a rich lower midrange presence and a sibilance-free top end. A spectral balance that is, in my opinion, more correct for hitting digital media than many mics currently available. Similarly, the SDC mics will offer detail and resolutions without resorting to HF peaks.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by JStuart

That was an M49 actually---from the guy who recorded it:

How They Got That Sound

Right, a K47 equipped mic with a relatively (for Neumann) open headbasket. Low phase shift, low coloration and high resolution without the need for excessive top end.

[Vintageblue02]

Ok, so what mic from MXL does/would anybody recommend for multi-pattern use?

MXL 2010
or,
MXL 4000

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by JStuart

That was an M49 actually---from the guy who recorded it:

How They Got That Sound

Originally Posted by illacov

Whoops!!

I went back a few years here and found my article. They used a U67 on her piano on certain songs but all vocals were M49.

I stand corrected.
However,
Karen Carpenter + U87. Nuff said.

Peace
Illumination

Doesn't the U87 use a kk87 capsule?
Either way, only thing I ever found a use for a 67 was female vocals.

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

My feelings about the K67 capsule derive from my ears.
My 15-year training with David Blackmer (dbx Inc. and Earthworks founder) taught me to be exceptionally sensitive to midrange phase shift and the effect this has on resolution and detail.

The "sound" of OktavaMod and Michael Joly Editions is defined, in part, by low phase shift audio.

And they sound great.

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Hey Chris, good question. The answer is yes.
A spectral balance that is, in my opinion, more correct for hitting digital media than many mics currently available. Similarly, the SDC mics will offer detail and resolutions without resorting to HF peaks.

Doing it right.

[illacov]

U87 and U67 capsules are numbered differently but aside from physical differences in the capsule, they aren't all that different sonically.

Doesn't the U87ai use a K67 capsule??

Peace
Illumination

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by illacov

U87 and U67 capsules are numbered differently but aside from physical differences in the capsule, they aren't all that different sonically.

Doesn't the U87ai use a K67 capsule??

Peace
Illumination

Well, I'd like to see a plot of that, because, if that's true it's good news to me. I'd like to keep from having to change them out for about three or four mics, it would be superb.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Well, I'd like to see a plot of that, because, if that's true it's good news to me. I'd like to keep from having to change them out for about three or four mics, it would be superb.

You're changing your capsules in your u87 every 3 to 4 years???

a chinese k67 is def different than a real neumann k67 but i'm pretty sure you can get some interesting results from a good 797 k67 or k47 for that matter

Peace
Illumination

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by illacov

You're changing your capsules in your u87 every 3 to 4 years???

a chinese k67 is def different than a real neumann k67 but i'm pretty sure you can get some interesting results from a good 797 k67 or k47 for that matter

Peace
Illumination

Can you imagine having to change them out every 3-4 years? Ha!
Ha ha, no, I just have too many 67 capsules mics I'd like to change out, but, If I can de-emphasize and dim the highs without screwing it up, or at least keep or make it sound good, I'd be a happy man. I don't have to change them, I'd rather not. After looking at a few mics guts and schematic, I see a few things I can do.

[Draw the Moral]

I just picked up a V69 for really cheap. I'm loving the sound of it so far.

I really enjoy the tube's character on my voice.

I imagine with a tube replacement and/or mod it will be even better.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Draw the Moral

I just picked up a V69 for really cheap. I'm loving the sound of it so far.

I really enjoy the tube's character on my voice.

I imagine with a tube replacement and/or mod it will be even better.

I am mixing a song that I did with the V69me, and I regret selling it. Fortunately, they are cheap used (200).

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I am mixing a song that I did with the V69me, and I regret selling it.

I'm surprised you're not in therapy.....or maybe you are.....you must drive yourself crazy with mics.

BTW, I thought you were getting the MJE K47 capsule in your V69ME(?)

IMO Chris, you should buy yourself a Phoenix Audio DRS-1 and a nice outboard EQ.
Get a U87, like you want to, and get a modded MK319 + an MXL M3 and V6 and call it a day.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

I'm surprised you're not in therapy.....or maybe you are.....you must drive yourself crazy with mics.

BTW, I thought you were getting the MJE K47 capsule in your V69ME(?)

IMO Chris, you should buy yourself a Phoenix Audio DRS-1 and a nice outboard EQ.
Get a U87, like you want to, and get a modded MK319 + an MXL M3 and V6 and call it a day.

I think a JJ Audio Taho, a modded MK319 from JJ Audio and then a JJ Akida with that M3 capsule would cover most everything Chris wants to do. The Phoenix is indeed a nice preamp.

Peace
Illumination

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

I'm surprised you're not in therapy.....or maybe you are.....you must drive yourself crazy with mics.

BTW, I thought you were getting the MJE K47 capsule in your V69ME(?)

IMO Chris, you should buy yourself a Phoenix Audio DRS-1 and a nice outboard EQ.
Get a U87, like you want to, and get a modded MK319 + an MXL M3 and V6 and call it a day.

or maybe he should just get a zigma chi rig with different heads. get a lunchbox with a bunch of different pres and call it a day. i think that would be the best way that chris should go.

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by illacov

I think a JJ Audio Taho, a modded MK319 from JJ Audio and then a JJ Akida with that M3 capsule would cover most everything Chris wants to do. The Phoenix is indeed a nice preamp.

Peace
Illumination

The clips I've heard of his mics sound really nice, even though the recordings are definitely not optimal. In general, his mics sound very rich and present.

At this point, he should contact the Chinese manufacturers/re-sellers and buy some bodies, etc. It's not too difficult; he could get bodies with locations for his switches because his cutout work, such as the switch on the Taho listed on his site will turn some people right off.....and that would be a shame. Also, they will make head-baskets with single layer mesh (ex: outer only), etc., saving him some time, if he wants that.

He could also offer different versions of his mics, like AA, with stock capsules (797, etc) or higher end capsules, like the Campbell Transmitter's CT12 capsule in his 12/251 style mics or BeesNeez 47 style capsules for a 47 type of mic.

Anyway, sounds nice. Now, IMHO, he needs to define his lineup and make a push.......I think he might be onto something (but he has to act fast and maybe get a big push here).