MXL Mics - Which models are good?

[Tomer1]

Will this be again, a joined project with CAD mic as with your gomez?

[Michael_Joly]

I'm traveling down two paths and will execute both co-branding relationships and stand alone signature mics. While one co-branding relationship with an (un-named) company is quite far along we are not ready to announce details yet. Nor has it been determined if this new SDC mic will be a co-branded product or an MJE exclusive. The branding will be quite similar, but there is a subtle distinction...

MJE - Michael Joly Edition (singular form of "Edition", preliminary sketch shown below) will be the co-branding mark. As in "a Michael Joly Edition (modified and improved version)" of another company's product.

MJE - Michael Joly Editions - (plural form of "Edition) will be the stand-alone branding mark for products sold with no other manufacturer's identity associated.

[twentyhertz]

Arggh..Michael, I was getting myself all psyched for the ultimate SDC mods on my 604s and then got to the end of the description on the website and see that you can't do the 604 because there's not enough room due to the switches? You can't do the electronics mod either eh?

So the only mod you do for the 604 is the hidden 84 capsule mod? This may be a tough question to answer but have you compared the sound of the 604 with just the capsule mod to the the 603 ultimate?

I guess if I were you I'd say it gets you 31% (69/219) of the way there

[Michael_Joly]

I actually had done quite a few 604 mods. But I finally did a time analysis on the job and decided it didn't make sense for me to continue doing them at the 603 price - and I also didn't want to raise the price to reflect the reality of the additional labor. In addition, I just don't have the time to spare for 604 mods because they seriously impact my weekly throughput and extend my lead time for other mods (which I don't won't to do) So for the time being - no 604 mods.

Here's a breakdown of what each aspect of the "Ultimate SDC Mod" does...

The Premium Electronics section - this extends bass response, lowerd midrange distortion and makes the top end sweeter and less gritty.

The capsule housing mod - this removes resonant and diffractive colorations due to the set-back of the diaphragm within the housing. The front of the housing is remachined to remove as much of the set back as possible (90%) and round the housing edge to eliminate sharp edge diffraction.

The body vent mod - enlarging the body vent area removes the nasty 8kHz peak and simultaneously adds some missing 16kHz air.

So it would be possible for me to do the capsule housing and body vent mods because that work is the same regardless of mic model. It is the electronics portion that becomes exceptionally difficult because of the double sided board with plated-thru holes and high component density. But at this point I'm not going to create an "ala carte" menu for these mods because the "Ultimate SDC" is really a great value and I try to get folks to recognize that.

So my apologies for halting the 604 mods for a while.

[twentyhertz]

:( in the words of my Berkley stoner friend 'you're harshing my mellow, dude'

But I understand.

[jlipoth]

I bought a set of apex185s in the hopes of getting them modded by Joly in the next couple months. I really hope that change doesn't last!

[Michael_Joly]

A lot of MXL v67 mics cross my bench, today I came across one with an interesting factory mod - two signal path electrolytic capacitors had been bypassed with additional small value polypropelene types on the bottom side of the board. First MXL mic I've ever seen this done way. This is one way to attack the problem of using electrotylics in the signal path. The other, and the approach I take, is to replace the polarized electrolytics with non-polarized types.

It was surprising to see MXL's post-design revision - one intended to reduce distortion and edge heard when non-bypassed, polarized electrolytic caps are used in the signal path. Still had the edgy ceramic disc input coupling cap and congested-sounding stock FET though.

[avebr]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

A lot of MXL v67 mics cross my bench (...)

I'm curious to know what MJ thinks about the MXL V77, and if there's anything to 'improve' it (mic/power suppl)?!

I believe it's one of the first tube mics MXL sold, it's much older than the current line and expensive. At that time it was like us$699 MSRP but could be found (and I got) for us$399.

I used it mostly for vocals but I don't use it often these days... I remember it sounded really nice, with body, not 'cheap' at all, but a bit noisy for me. And tube was not China (although I believe mic is China?!) - it's "Ruby" ?!(sic?)

What design is this mic based on?


all the best,
ave.

[Black Shadow]

Originally Posted by nightspirit

Hey
Do any of you guys know if the mxl 2006 is any good? and If it is any good, what is it good at? voice, guitar, OH?

This was never answered: I've used the 2006 (which was an improved version of the 2001) on male voice for a couple of years now and I like it a lot. It can take a wide range of genres, from breathy to screamy. Good for multitracking vocals.

It's less convincing on female vocals, which is why I'm getting a V67i.

And after that I'm done with buying budget mics and I'll start saving up for a Neumann U87.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by avebr

I'm curious to know what MJ thinks about the MXL V77, and if there's anything to 'improve' it (mic/power suppl)?!...

Oops, missed this. I've never heard this mic so I don't have any specific suggestions. However, how do you like the top end in 8kHz range? Does it sound balanced with the midrange or is it a bit bright and sibilant?

I ask because MXL uses K67-type capsules in their mics and these have a designed-in HF boost that Neumann intended to be de-emphasized through a combination of negative feedback and low pass filtering (this acoustical pre-emphasis / electronics de-emphasis provided sibilance reduction, increased headroom and HF timbre control in the U 67 and U 87 mics - but the electronic portion of the system, the deemphasis is not included in most low cost mics).

If the mic is too bright or sibilant you could consider a change to a K47-type capsule which is more midrange focused and less sibilant. There may be signal path upgrades possible as well - replacement of ceramic and electrolytic caps etc.

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

... how do you like the top end in 8kHz range? Does it sound balanced with the midrange or is it a bit bright and sibilant?...

I have two V77s. Even with the stock tubes, neither sounded bright and sibilant. 8k is smooth and balanced. After upgrading the tubes (a NOS Telefunken in one, I think a Mullard in the other), the lower midrange cleared up.

At some point, I might ask you what you could do for one or both of them. (thanks so much for the MXL 603 mods, and when the budget allows, I'll get a new MJE-K47H)

[avebr]

Originally Posted by seriousfun

I have two V77s. Even with the stock tubes, neither sounded bright and sibilant. 8k is smooth and balanced. After upgrading the tubes (a NOS Telefunken in one, I think a Mullard in the other), the lower midrange cleared up.

At some point, I might ask you what you could do for one or both of them. (thanks so much for the MXL 603 mods, and when the budget allows, I'll get a new MJE-K47H)

+1 thumbsup my experience is the same.

My V77 is original - never bright or sibilant. I've [almost] always prefered V77 to U87 for close vocals (you can call me crazy).

The lower midrange is really a bit too strong and the original valve sounds a bit noisy (althought nice) for my taste.

If you can arrange a mod for the V77, I would like to be included (so I would do everything together with my two MK-219s).

So now it would be 3 V77s to mod in 2010?

To seriousfun: how do you like using your two V77s in stereo, for not-so-close to far sources (so more indirect than direct sound)? I envy you, in a good sense!

all the best,
ave.

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by avebr

...

To seriousfun: how do you like using your two V77s in stereo, for not-so-close to far sources (so more indirect than direct sound)? I envy you, in a good sense! ...

Haven't tried it yet - I plan to evaluate them to see how close they are after the tube substitution before I do some serious stereo recording.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Oops, missed this. I've never heard this mic so I don't have any specific suggestions. However, how do you like the top end in 8kHz range? Does it sound balanced with the midrange or is it a bit bright and sibilant?

I ask because MXL uses K67-type capsules in their mics and these have a designed-in HF boost that Neumann intended to be de-emphasized through a combination of negative feedback and low pass filtering (this acoustical pre-emphasis / electronics de-emphasis provided sibilance reduction, increased headroom and HF timbre control in the U 67 and U 87 mics - but the electronic portion of the system, the deemphasis is not included in most low cost mics).

If the mic is too bright or sibilant you could consider a change to a K47-type capsule which is more midrange focused and less sibilant. There may be signal path upgrades possible as well - replacement of ceramic and electrolytic caps etc.

Hi Michael, I think that in the 77/76 mics MXL either used a non-K67 capsule, or did a good job of de-emphasis on them. They are both have transformers as well. I own a V76t as I said earlier, and it is not sibilant or even noticeably bright.

[Michael_Joly]

Yeah, its a well-loved mic. I hope to hear one before too long. It beats me why a company that has great sounding mic which people love will stop producing it. Perhaps it comes down to the difference between a love of mics and a love of marketing.

[avebr]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Yeah, its a well-loved mic. I hope to hear one before too long. It beats me why a company that has great sounding mic which people love will stop producing it. Perhaps it comes down to the difference between a love of mics and a love of marketing.

I believe the answer is cost. When the V77 appeared, a MSRP of US$699 (actually SRP of US$399) for a tube-mic was 'cheap'.

Nowadays, cheap means < US$150?!? And how it will be in the next 5 years?!?!

You can't cut costs without affecting quality, durability,... that's it for mass-products.

MJ's and others mods are a way to 'fix' (part) of these issues - very welcome.

At some level, you can see the same quality problem on 'new designs' or current versions of old classic mics - like comparing vintage U87 with current ones (so I understand that Neumann should use a different name for the current model, like they do with others).


all the best,
ave

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by avebr

I believe the answer is cost. When the V77 appeared, a MSRP of US$699 (actually SRP of US$399) for a tube-mic was 'cheap'.

Nowadays, cheap means < US$150?!? And how it will be in the next 5 years?!?! ...

yeah. same for ribbon mics. In that realm the rock bottom price seems to have been reached. I watch prices extensively and frequently - $79 has held as the lowest price for a ribbon mic for quite a while. When the Oktava ML-52 started the low priced ribbon trend it was around $500 list.

So I find it interesting that after years of pushing lowest cost condenser mics, MXL now offers mics like the Genesis tube mic which streets for $500-$600 as a strategy to reverse price erosion.

[Black Shadow]

Originally Posted by Black Shadow

This was never answered: I've used the MXL 2006 (which was an improved version of the 2001) on male voice for a couple of years now and I like it a lot. It can take a wide range of genres, from breathy to screamy. Good for multitracking vocals.

In related news: I just ABCD'd the MXL 2006 (89 €)* with a Rode NT3 (159 €), a Shure SM-7B (399 €) and a Sennheiser MD-21u (359 €) on male rock vocal.

I liked the MXL best, with the MD-21 as a close second.

*Music Store prices.

[darkinners]

I love my MXL V6 I picked up few days ago and really loved it
it sound amazing for the money really.
I've been using Rode NTK for Vocal and Acoustic guitars for years

and I already sold my NTK to my friend after I bought the V6 and have change left.

I record in my really budget home studio, no fancy preamps, audio interface whatsoever

I use M-audio Delta 66, M-audio DMP3 preamp, Epiphone DR-100 acoustic guitar to record at my home

I really satisfy with the sound this mic has, it has the presence, it has the sizzle top end sound airy while it has really warm midrange,
sound not harsh at all.
and most importantly, it sound more tubey than my REAL tube mic (Rode NTK)
I picked it up around $220 at local audio shop.


you can't beat it, it made me sell my NTK without a second thought, NTK was a fine mic but MXL V6 even better IMHO


I just recorded a simple song I recently wrote for my girlfriend.
no mix, no eq, no compression, no anything and just with my really
low budget acoustic guitar(you can pickup in any store for $100)

the guitar sound already sound better than the guitar sound I used to record with my NTK after EQ tweaks and stuffs.
how can you not love it

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/958350/123.mp3

[memphisindie]

Yes it does, I been meaning to tell you about that guitar sound you been getting using that NTK, yuk!

Ha ha, just kidding, but, you're right, that does sound better than the NTK I've heard.

[CPTenorII]

The MXL 603S is SPECTACULAR on accoustic guitar. Despite the fact that they are bit gelatinous on transients, the guitar sound can't be beat. I like the rounder, bass-heavy sound. They have a lot of push. I can only desribe the sound as "serious and substantial".

I believe Micheal Joly offers a great mod for the 603 @ OktavaMod. I have not heard it myself so cannot comment. See here:
OktavaMod - Shop

[Michael_Joly]

You can hear the mod'd 603 vs the KM 184 at that link, several sources - drum OH, Udu drum, acoustic gtr, shakers and speaking voice.

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

Originally Posted by Beyersound

Hi Michael, I think that in the 77/76 mics MXL either used a non-K67 capsule, or did a good job of de-emphasis on them. They are both have transformers as well. I own a V76t as I said earlier, and it is not sibilant or even noticeably bright.

The MXL77 has a very nice sound. It was one of the best tube mics MXL built. The mic was made by 797 in China and has a plate follower circuit that is similar to the 1/2 of the AKG C24 (stereo C12). That circuit is a fixed bias vs the C12 self bias. The Nady 1100 shares the same circuit and transformer as the MXL V77.

The capsule is a 797 Audio K67 type capsule these sound better than some of the current K67 capsules.

The transformer in the V77/1100 is larger than the typical Chinese mic. The transformers in these tube mics are an important part of the total sound. This mic transformer has a decent sound. In most other Chinese mics they can be upgraded with different transformer.

In the MXL V77/1100, the transformer coupling cap is an electrolytic cap that can be switched out to a high quality film cap. I like to use the GE 5 star 6072a in these mics.
I always replace the electrolytics in the mic and rebuild the power supply with high quality Elna, Nichicon, Rubycon or Black Gates.

The V76, basically shares the same circuit as the MXL 9000. These mics are also plate follower circuits. This mic uses a 9pf plate to grid feedback to tame the K67 capsule. The transformer coupling capacitor is a 33UF cap bypassed with a .1 uf film cap. I replace this configuration with a better film cap.
These mics can improve with a transformer change.


Best,
Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Custom Microphones and Mods

[memphisindie]

Excellent work, that could sell some JJA mics.

[music_food]

I'm afraid I must dig up your MXL knowledge for some time longer. The opinions shown here have led me to be very interested in a V67G, and perhaps interested in a pair of 603s. The 603s are standing off against Rode NT5s depending on how I do on ebay looking for them. Unfortunately and perhaps infuriatingly, US prices are much better than UK, e.g. V67G £115, pair of 603s £200, how viable is importing myself bearing in mind shipping and import tax?

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by music_food

I'm afraid I must dig up your MXL knowledge for some time longer. The opinions shown here have led me to be very interested in a V67G, and perhaps interested in a pair of 603s. The 603s are standing off against Rode NT5s depending on how I do on ebay looking for them. Unfortunately and perhaps infuriatingly, US prices are much better than UK, e.g. V67G £115, pair of 603s £200, how viable is importing myself bearing in mind shipping and import tax?

ebay. That is the best I know.

[onespecial]

im a LONG time reader but first time post-er here so i may have posted this in the wrong area.

im looking to try a few things that i have read about on a MXL 9000 tube mic.
i am new to modding but i will have a friend who is good with a soldering gun.
does anyone know where i can look for a circuit diagram for this mic?
i'd like to swap the transformer but i don't know what to order.

Kevin at K and K said he would help but he didn't know anything about this mic either.

any advice or places to look for advice would be greatly appreciated.
--jason

[Michael_Joly]

There's much more DIY support for the $189, 9-pattern Apex 460 than there is for the $199 cardioid-only MXL 9000. And the stock transformer is not a significant issue in either of these mics. The mismatch between the K67-type capsule with its intentional 8kHz peak and the flat (non-deemphasized) response circuit is the primary issue.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

...mismatch between the K67-type capsule with its intentional 8kHz peak and the flat (non-deemphasized) response circuit ...

I know I speak for everyone when I say: I hate it when that happens!

[Haz-Mat-Strat]

Originally Posted by onespecial

im a LONG time reader but first time post-er here so i may have posted this in the wrong area.

im looking to try a few things that i have read about on a MXL 9000 tube mic.
i am new to modding but i will have a friend who is good with a soldering gun.
does anyone know where i can look for a circuit diagram for this mic?
i'd like to swap the transformer but i don't know what to order.

Kevin at K and K said he would help but he didn't know anything about this mic either.

any advice or places to look for advice would be greatly appreciated.
--jason

Here is a link to a schematc and some info on the MXL9000. This mic is nice because it is a plate follower circuit that drives a 12at7 tube. Easy upgrade would be an NOS tube. A 12at7 or 6072a would be a good choice. This mic has some feedback 9pf plate to grid that helps control the 67 style capsule.

If you look at the classic circuits (C12, C24, Elam 251) and compare them to this schematic you will see the circuit is basicaly the same with increased filtering. Keep the B+ filtering and make the circuit more simple. Copy 1/2 of the C24 for a simple and elegant plate follower circuit.

Transformers:
Cinemag 2480: Bright clear better than stock.
Jensen DB transformer not as bright more expensive.
Haufe T14/1: nice transformer saturates early.
AMI T14 copy of the early C12 C60 transformer more color historically accurate.

Capsules:
Adk Vienna: bright edge terminated
Adk Hamburg: Darker
Dont waste a dual membrane capsule on this mic unless you add the multi pattern circuit and a 9 position pattern power supply.

Capacitor:
C6 and C6a should be replaced with a single film capacitor 1UF 250v.

Link to schematic:

MXL 9000 Exposed

I hope this helps