Ribbon Mic suggestions for Glyn Johns Method
Doran Palmer
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#1
26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Ribbon Mic suggestions for Glyn Johns Method

I didn't really find the info I was looking for, so I will ask.

Looking for suggestions, good ribbon mics for the Glyn Johns method. I've got around a grand or a little more for both mics. Mainly Rock, Alternative, hardrock, progressive. Not familiar with the differances if any, also would it need a preamp for the best results.

I've seen alot of different ribbon mics, but need to narrow them down. I will only be using them as overheads for drums. Nothing else.


If there is a thread or sticky already here, please send me the link.
Thanks,

Happy Holidays,

Doran Fi2
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26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Doran Palmer
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26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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This was first on my list, the Beyerdynamic, but haven't been so lucky to find them that cheap, you made out.

Are you using a preamp with them?
Doran Palmer
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26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Wow, I did just find them the M260s at GC main distributor site. On sale, for quit a bit less then I was willing to pay.

Would a good preamp be a good idea with these. Anyone had any experience with this.
#5
26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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260's rule

The 260 is more neutral and full range than the 160 and cheaper. I have both and have not found anything the 160 does better. Get the 260's
DD
#6
26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Quote:
The 260 is more neutral and full range than the 160 and cheaper.
I own both as well, and I like both. (BTW, I own the old 260's, before they put in the low end roll-off) To my ears the 160 is more neutral and full range, with the 260 having the presence peak in it, more like an sm57. Lots of people like presence peaks on lots of things, so the 260 could float your boat in lots of areas. I prefer the 160 most of the time, myself, as I find it easier to eq and a little more broad-band.

On the OP, I would personally go with the 160 if I were getting a Beyer, since I believe they are the most flexible. Just OMP. I don't own any of the Chinese ribbons, but there are a bunch that would almost certainly be appropriate for use as overheads and definitely wouldn't break the bank. Maybe someone else will chime in on that.
Doran Palmer
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26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Thanks guys, the Beyer M260 was certainly my first choice, probably this lower price M260 I found is the Chinese make.

Would a preamp being of any use with these as overheads for drums. Specifically could I get an even warmer full sound with a tube pre?

Or, would it just be a waist of money, they won't need it, in other words.
#8
26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doran Palmer View Post
Thanks guys, the Beyer M260 was certainly my first choice, probably this lower price M260 I found is the Chinese make.

Would a preamp being of any use with these as overheads for drums. Specifically could I get an even warmer full sound with a tube pre?

Or, would it just be a waist of money, they won't need it, in other words.
First, I doubt the Beyer M260 you're referring to is made in China (I think they make all of their mics in Germany but I could be wrong).

A mic preamp will be required (for most any pro audio mic). The microphone itself puts out a very low signal and needs to be amplified in order to brought up what is known as 'line level'.

Ribbon mics require more gain than your typical dynamic or condenser, so you're not going to want to skimp on the preamp by buying something cheap. A good starting place would be a Rane MS-1b - this is a simple no frills one channel preamp that will provide clear amplification and enough gain for the Beyers. These preamps run about $100.

You can get a warmer sound using a tube pre, sure, but cheap tube pres often suck. The cheapest one I would consider is the Groove Tubes Brick, which is about $300 or $400. In my opinion, the mics are more important than the mic preamp.
Doran Palmer
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26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Thanks, I didn't check on those mics yet, so my bad I just assumed they might be Chinese, price was at three fifty each, seemed to low to be the German import.


Your info is truly appreciated, I was going to get a couple really good pres no matter what, I had the extra cash, but wanted to make sure it wasn't going to be a waist. So you answered that as well. Thank you.

I'm going to look at getting a couple of the Rane pres, this keeps me within my budget.

Thanks

Doran Palmer
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26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Glad you found the info helpful.

When shopping for the Rane MS-1b, make sure to get the Rane MS-1b and not the Rane MS-1. The MS-1b has better components and is more highly regarded.

thumbsup
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26th December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doran Palmer View Post
This was first on my list, the Beyerdynamic, but haven't been so lucky to find them that cheap, you made out.

Are you using a preamp with them?
You have to use a preamp. That's how this works.

A good, low noise preamp would probably be advisable for use with ribbons.
#12
27th December 2008
Old 27th December 2008
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Just to be clear, when I brought up chinese mics, I wasn't suggesting that any of Beyer's mics are made in China, but that there are other brands such as Cascade and Shiny Box that folks on this board have also had good luck with (and some are even listed with audio files you can listen to) and that these are also worth investigating in your price range.

I also agree that a quiet preamp with plenty of gain is important for ribbon mic applications, although this is less important with drums, since they are so loud.

Best of luck in your quest for great sound.
#13
3rd December 2009
Old 3rd December 2009
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andychamp's Avatar
Please bear in mind that, while Bonham's "Levee" drumsound comes from a pair of 160s (set up by ANDY Johns), the original Glyn Johns stereo method used LDCs -U67s,IIRC - and happened more by accident than intentionally.
#14
3rd December 2009
Old 3rd December 2009
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You would be doing yourself a great disservice by not trying the 4038.
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3rd December 2009
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When using ribbons as overheads, I assume it is absolutely crucial to have a well treated/sounding room due to the figure-8 pattern?

Also, does size of room factor in? I assume that Glyn Johns with ribbons works better in larger rooms whereas cardioid LDC would work better in a smaller. Am I off base on this?
#16
3rd December 2009
Old 3rd December 2009
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I recommend you don't buy new. Check out the vintage market on ebay, you should have no problem finding these mics. I'll always buy vintage when I can, and it's not necessarily more expensive; in many cases quite the opposite

As far as a preamp goes, depending on which ribbon you get, keep in mind that most ribbons do have a very weak output in comparison to dynamics and condensers. There are purpose built ribbon preamps which usually have 20-30dB more gain than a standard preamp. This is especially important when you are using distant overheads or room mic'ing (or stairwell mic'ing!)

AEA TRP will do the job nicely
You could probably get one of those and a pair of Beyer 260s for around 1500 if you work it, maybe less
#17
4th December 2009
Old 4th December 2009
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You should remember fig. 8 is the most directional mic -except acoustic interference tube mics / line mics / " shotguns"- front and rear. With clever positioning you get good separation and can try to avoid acoustical problems of the space also.

Matti
#18
4th December 2009
Old 4th December 2009
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ArnauTS's Avatar
 

correct me if i'm wrong but the 260 and 160 are hypercardoid, not usual on ribbons but if sounds good...
#19
4th December 2009
Old 4th December 2009
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If you need boat loads of gain, try a FMR Audio RNP. It's stereo and will easily drive a pair of ribbons.
#20
4th December 2009
Old 4th December 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softwareguy View Post
Just to be clear, when I brought up chinese mics, I wasn't suggesting that any of Beyer's mics are made in China, but that there are other brands such as Cascade and Shiny Box that folks on this board have also had good luck with
You have to hear what a Fathead does to a snare to believe it... Obviously you wouldn't close mic a snare with one (or, I wouldn't anyway) but with GJ or the Recorderman technique you get a really muscular sounding kit, probably because of the high end roll off.
#21
4th December 2009
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The Beyers are good. I've also had great results with the Apex 205 modded by Michael Joly.
#22
5th December 2009
Old 5th December 2009
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Thanks for the kind words. In addition to the new figure 8 mic I'm bringing out under my MJE brand, I'll be doing a directional ribbon mic (pant pant). I've been playing with my Oktava ML-19 recently and have modded a couple. I'm in love with directional ribbon mics now.
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