Even monitor tone at VERY low levels

[carltaylor43]

Hi there everyone... been reading the forum for a while but thought id pick your brains on something ive been thinking about...

Im looking for the smallest most accurate sounding speakers, that I will use at VERY low listening levels. Ive been searching the forum and these all come up will favorable comments from people..

Genelec 6010A
yamaha msp5
adam a5
PMC DB1S-A

these are all in my price range

I used to own some event 20/20 bas but they didnt have an even sound until I really crancked them up and I live in a flat so dont wanna annoy the neighbors so I had to sell them. So really my question is this...

Am I right in thinking the smaller the speaker the lower the volume will be needed for them to have a even sound? And am I on the right track with the 4 above mentioned speakers?

Thanks

[cavern]

+1 msp5's. got a pair, sound great at any volume. for the money,you can't go wrong.

[tomdarude]

I have a very specific suggestion for you

if you don´t need big volume, but want super accurate and an amazingly detailed response ( also in the time domain!!! )

you HAVE to at least check out and hear for yourself a pair of United Minorities Ginkos!

Ginko | United-Minorities


those are the only speakers I´m interested in besides the Barefoot MM27s

I think "audio microscope" fits their description perfectly

1-way design, no crossover-network, sealed cabinet, super fast transient response (requires only one cycle to return to its initial state of rest after a trigger impulse!)


If you try them in a mix situation, they´ll help you tremendously to make the right mix decisions!
I find that it "feels" much easier to mix, which I find is also a similar experience with the Barefoots!
I find those speakers are both incredible worktools and worth every penny, considering what people spend on other (less important) gear than speakers.


just my 2cts.

[Crash]

Don't forget the other end of that equation which is your ears. Different levels of "flatness" depending on volume. Fletcher-Munson curve as shown in the link below:

Fletcher-Munson Curve Explanation

Just something to keep in mind on your quest for quiet.

[carltaylor43]

hey thanks for the replies

yeah FM curve I know about that... maybe what im after isnt that realistic with this in mind?

those ginko speakers look really nice! 500 Euros ive seen as a price on the net.. not cheap but maybe worth it??

MSP5's might have to demo some of these.. just thinking tho, would the 3's be a better option seeing as they are smaller?

[warhead]

For low level the MSP3 will be fine.

War

[cavern]

Originally Posted by carltaylor43

hey thanks for the replies

yeah FM curve I know about that... maybe what im after isnt that realistic with this in mind?

those ginko speakers look really nice! 500 Euros ive seen as a price on the net.. not cheap but maybe worth it??

MSP5's might have to demo some of these.. just thinking tho, would the 3's be a better option seeing as they are smaller?

no, they sound cheap. they're not bi-amped and only 20 watts. the msp5's are bi-amped and around 90 watts.it's important to have enough power for good quality sound at low volumes and you'll lose alot of bottom end at that volume with a 3" speaker, with that design anyway.(haven't heard the ginko's), plus if you want to play them loud, the msp5's kick but and sound great at high volumes as well wich you may need later and the 3's won't be able to deliver at high volumes.

[212121]

barefoot > all of those dfegad

[cavern]

Originally Posted by 212121

barefoot > all of those dfegad

[carltaylor43]

looks like the barefoot's are well out of the price range of the others so probably not a fair comparison...

ill see if my local store has the yamaha's in stock and give them a whirl...

[tomdarude]

I think the Ginkos DO outperform the Barefoots for the task the OP asked for!!

as much as I want (and will buy) a pair of Barefoots for my room next year....
the Ginko´s are JUST AS MUCH impressive in a real world test as the MM27 for the task they serve!!

they´re around 1000,- a pair.....and I think there´s also a an active version
already (or about to come out) for around 2000,- ....not sure, though

and then there´s the Brikett system....holy schmoly


all other speakers mentioned in this thread aren´t barely even remotely in this league.....just imho. but...msp3/5...gimme a break

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by carltaylor43

hey thanks for the replies

yeah FM curve I know about that... maybe what im after isnt that realistic with this in mind?

those ginko speakers look really nice! 500 Euros ive seen as a price on the net.. not cheap but maybe worth it??

MSP5's might have to demo some of these.. just thinking tho, would the 3's be a better option seeing as they are smaller?

The phenomena observed by Fletcher and Munson are 'built' into everyone's auditory systems to varying extents, so, yeah, in some ways you're going up against your own physical nature.

But you can acclimate yourself to lower listening levels. Use appropriate reference CDs to help relearn how things should sound at your desired level. You might even consider using an SPL meter to help maintain consistent monitoring levels -- I've seen that recommended as a way to maintain a consistent mix environment and approach.


Like a lot of folks who can, I used to mix at pretty high levels. Most of the people I came up with did, too. And then, in those days, I was often involved with punk and other outsider rock stuff so there's a culture of loud, there, too.

It took me a while to unlearn a lot of that. Part of it was working with more experienced engineers who tended to work at lower levels -- because they were doing it 12 hours a day in a lot of cases and there's little question that moderate levels equate to less fatigue. (I'll leave it to others to decide if too low levels can also cause some kind of fatigue.)

[cavern]

all other speakers mentioned in this thread aren´t barely even remotely in this league.....just imho. but...msp3/5...gimme a break.

the money is not in that league either.what's wrong with an msp5 for $210(if you phone for best price). have you actually heard one in a real environment for a couple of days with a good source. im not talking about in the store for 2 minutes or hearsay. just curious about what you don't like about them.

by the way, i have a pair of 800 watt yorkville unity u15p's that will melt the paint off all that stuff you mentioned, but they're $3500.

[carltaylor43]

@theblue1 - yeah ive learnt i can mix at v low levels as well (at my friends and we get results we are happy with using his KRK5's)... tho i mix on headphones a lot at home and im scared of damaging my hearing in the long term + sometimes i can tend to hold back on the mids a bit when using cans..

ive been lookin at the Avantones as well.. im thinkin the lack of bass doesnt matter as I can check that on the headphones anyway?? + look like cool little speakers and people (and mag reviews) seem to rate them highly as well...

will deffo demo the msp5's in my local store tho... + they have the Samson rubicons that seem to get rave reviews as well..

[FireMoon]

The best low level monitors, under serious cash levels, are the Blue Sky Medias. There is nothing on the market that even comes close to producing a full *weight* of sound at such a very low level of dbs...

If you have the room reasonably treated, they are a no brainer at this price break...

[Lunatique]

Don't forget Digidesign's RM series--they also use PMC's technology, which maintains the full bass response even at very low volume--this is something the PMC's are famous for (besides sounding fantastic).

[carltaylor43]

well i went into my local store, tried the MSP5's and Rubicons and liked the Rubicons a lot more, so i got those... they seemed a lot more smoother and open on the top than the MSP's... and just a better sound overall really, though obviosly I appreciate this is all a matter of opinion

still might buy some Avantones as well tho!

[JC.]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

I have a very specific suggestion for you

if you don´t need big volume, but want super accurate and an amazingly detailed response ( also in the time domain!!! )

you HAVE to at least check out and hear for yourself a pair of United Minorities Ginkos!

Ginko | United-Minorities


those are the only speakers I´m interested in besides the Barefoot MM27s

I think "audio microscope" fits their description perfectly

1-way design, no crossover-network, sealed cabinet, super fast transient response (requires only one cycle to return to its initial state of rest after a trigger impulse!)


If you try them in a mix situation, they´ll help you tremendously to make the right mix decisions!
I find that it "feels" much easier to mix, which I find is also a similar experience with the Barefoots!
I find those speakers are both incredible worktools and worth every penny, considering what people spend on other (less important) gear than speakers.


just my 2cts.

have you tried ME geithain? if yes, do you like the ginko more? do you have an sub in addition to the ginko? I think the ginko have -6db/oct at ~120 hz. I'f you do bass related/electronic stuff it's just not enough top get a picture there.

[tomdarude]

Originally Posted by JC.

have you tried ME geithain? if yes, do you like the ginko more? do you have an sub in addition to the ginko? I think the ginko have -6db/oct at ~120 hz. I'f you do bass related/electronic stuff it's just not enough top get a picture there.

Unfortunately I haven´t tried them, though I instinctly like their general design-approach.

Just saw the new report in fritz´ studio magazin of their new fullrange monitor....looks interesting!



the Ginkos have a matching sub & power amp system to make this an active 2.1 sytem, that works amazingly well! called the "brikett" system.

the only thing about them is they don´t get very loud....so I find them to be the perfect alternative to the Barefoots...I´d love to have them JUST for the midrange-detail .....they tell you EVERYTHING about relative levels (vocals!!!), stereo-image, etc.



but if you keep the levels reasonable the 2.1 brikett-system can be the only thing you ever need!








......BUT I´m still in love with the Barefoots

[powerestudio]

Originally Posted by FireMoon

The best low level monitors, under serious cash levels, are the Blue Sky Medias. There is nothing on the market that even comes close to producing a full *weight* of sound at such a very low level of dbs...

If you have the room reasonably treated, they are a no brainer at this price break...

Only medias ? Pro desk and system one?

[dkelley]

I tend to think that you want a speaker with a scooped but very even sound to compensate for the FM curve.

but in general I think that's a dangerous suggestion of mine :-)

I forget the actual name but there are those small "cubes". single driver, no crossover, very highly respected quiet monitoring speakers. definitely you'll have to live with the fm curve, but we all do and it's worth it.

the whole point of quiet monitoring is to hear what people will hear when your track is on quietly in the backgrounf of a restaurant, of their home, their car etc.

and then you need to monitor through a boombox to hear what kids might listen with.

and finally with headphones to hear the "ipod effect" since much of music is heard through headphones these days.

fortunately the last two suggestions are cheap (headphones we have, used boombox = free on craigslist) and those cube speakers aren't expensive at all if memory serves. the company name starts with "a" if I recollected, but I might be on drugs, although how relevant that is might be irellevant. or is it?

cheers
Don