Death metal guitar equipment questions?

[THC MoFo]

Hi, I'm trying to find the perfect recording set-up for me.

I like new wave Death Metal/Deathcore/Metalcore guitar sounds.
Im not into the guitar sound of older death metal bands.

I like engl amps alot but im not sure what amp would deliver a tight low end that has alot of distortion but not too much? There are many different amps for metal out there but which sounds the most new wave?

I'm looking for a good pair of passive pick ups that are meant for metal?
(the x2n and d sonic looked nice to me)

And what mic pre amp(s) would fit my style nicely? Im looking for something good for modern metal but not too expensive.

Im also looking for a nice Usb Interface?

Im fairly new to playing metal, so any advice would be great.

Thanks alot.

[lespaul666]

Originally Posted by THC MoFo

Hi, I'm trying to find the perfect recording set-up for me.

I like new wave Death Metal/Deathcore/Metalcore guitar sounds.
Im not into the guitar sound of older death metal bands.

I like engl amps alot but im not sure what amp would deliver a tight low end that has alot of distortion but not too much? There are many different amps for metal out there but which sounds the most new wave?

I'm looking for a good pair of passive pick ups that are meant for metal?
(the x2n and d sonic looked nice to me)

And what mic pre(s) would fit my style nicely?

Im fairly new to playing metal, so any advice would be great.

Thanks alot.

This answers to this are highly subjective to taste, as you could get a modern metal tone out of many different rigs. Solid state or tube. There's so many different combinations of pickups, guitars, boost pedals, amplifiers, and speakers/cabinets that do this and do it well.

My preferred method:

Marshall 2204 50 watt, choice of Boss OD-1, SD-1, EQ-7, Rangemaster(or clone) treble booster, Ibanez Tube Screamer, etc. Any one of these pedals in front of the Marshall will give you a modern metal tone, even with stock dual-coil humbucking pickups.

As far as speakers, a Marshall model 1960 straight front, with Celestion G12-70's, 65's, or Vintage 30's.

Shure SM57, Sennhieser 421, etc. Preamps, there are lots. If you have the cash, a Drawmer 1960 or 1969 is smokin' for metal guitar sounds.

This is just one suggestion. There are zillions.

[MMski]

While it's a good amp, I don't think that Marshall would be the best for what he's looking for.

Check out a:

Mesa double or triple rec
Peavey 6505/5150
even check out the b-52 if you're short on cash.

I've use a D-Sonic/Air Norton in my main guitar, and I love the combo.

[Tom Hakala]

Pickups: Seymor Duncan JB is always very nice.
AMP: 5150 is very metal
Mics: 2xsm57 is a great.. also sm57+at4050/47 is thumbs up!

[THC MoFo]

Thanks everyone, i appreciate the help. I have 2 sm57's and a 421. I was debating between mesa/peavey/bogner, until i heard about engl. Im interested to hear some accounts of engl amps?

I have a decent budget for amps but its not too high for pre amps. so Im still wonderng wats a good inexpensive modern metal pre amp?

[SLy_drums]

5150 are amazing for death metal, unbeatable, they sound big and warm, and they are damn cheap !

57 in front of a V30 or G12T75 speaker should do it very well

[BLUElightCory]

I commonly use all of the usual suspects (Bogner, ENGL, Mesa, VHT, Marshall, etc.) for metal / hardcore sounds and I've definitely come to prefer the VHT Pitbull Ultra Lead and the Peavey 5150 (original block letter version). These two amps retain amazing clarity and tightness at high gain levels that most other amps can't touch.

The Bogner Uberschall and ENGL Powerball are great amps too, but are VERY gainy and don't quite have the clarity or punch of the Pitbull or the older 5150s.

Putting a great Tube Screamer type pedal in front of the amp works wonders for metal guitar tones as well.

[Ironklad Audio]

engl amps will give you that modern thrash/death tone you're after, but from what i understand they're pretty touchy and require a lot of tweaking to get a good recorded tone from them...as such, my advice would be the same as others have stated here, and get a 5150/6505. i guarantee that almost every metal album of the last 15 years that makes you go "holy shit, i love that tone!" either has a 5150 as the only amp, or one blended with a mesa/marshall/whatever else. in addition to their amazing sound, they're also the cheapest "legit" high-gain amp out there.

also, for that tight, modern sound, you'll definitely want a tube screamer...screw the over-priced models, grab yourself an ibanez TS7 for $40 and run it in front of the amp with the drive set pretty low(like at 3, max), and the tone/volume wherever you prefer...usually within 1 or 2 notches of 12 o'clock for me and others i know, but go with what works best for you

pickups...that's subjective as hell, but duncan JB's have worked for me...some guys like the 59's, others prefer dimarzio models, or more esoteric(and expensive) shit like bareknuckle

speaker-wise...celestion V30's are going to be the de-facto standard for most modern productions; mics will usually be SM57 with whatever else you like on a cab

preamp-wise, i would just find something that's capable of giving you a decent amount of clean gain. over at ultimatemetal.com, there's an entire forum dedicated to metal production, and there have been various shootouts on there between high-end pres such as API, great river, vintech, etc. and cheaper stuff such as mackie, presonus, and RME pres...and to tell the truth, while you can hear a slight difference in the different pres, it seems to matter much less than the other steps in the signal chain that come previous to it.

i would venture to say that changing the player, guitar, strings, pickups, amp, cabinet, mics, and possibly even more subtle stuff as the brand of tubes and cables would have more of an impact on the final tone than the mic preamp will...at least in the context of raging, high-gain guitars.

[Patrick5150]

Originally Posted by SLy_drums

5150 are amazing for death metal, unbeatable, they sound big and warm, and they are damn cheap !

this

[stayouttamalibu]

as far as i can tell while skimming through this thread i havent seen krank mentioned. the krank revolution one has hands down the thickest yet tightest low end ive ever heard on a high gain amp. you can turn the bass pretty much all the way up and it never gets flabby. so, so tight and focused still, and it has this insanely piercing blade like quality in the mids that is incredible. just check out their website and list of bands that have started using them for starters, and considering the company got its start with the help of dimebag before he died, thats some pretty good company to sit in. ive been a mesa guy for years and years, but i was honestly blown away the first time i sat in a room and played the rev one. definitely give it a shot if youre looking for serious quality high gain metal tone.

[Ironklad Audio]

i have a rev jr. myself, and while i love the tones i can get from that thing, it's sort of like the engl amps in the sense that it can be pretty iffy when you throw a mic in front of it...at least when compared to a 5150

[moon_unit]

I don't know how things are where you live ...

But here in Chicago we have these things called Guitar Shops.



(Hint: Most of them have amps that you can audition right there. thumbsup )

[BLUElightCory]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

I don't know how things are where you live ...

But here in Chicago we have these things called Guitar Shops.



(Hint: Most of them have amps that you can audition right there. thumbsup )

That's all well and good, but I have yet to find a guitar shop that you can walk into and try all of the amps mentioned in this thread.

The OP is just looking for advice and some direction; there are a LOT of high gain amps out there and it can take a lot of time to seek them out and play through them (if you can find them in your area at all).

[moon_unit]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

That's all well and good, but I have yet to find a guitar shop that you can walk into and try all of the amps mentioned in this thread.

True, but I have yet to find a single message board thread where you can try even one of the amps mentioned in this (or any other) thread.

[Patrick5150]

Originally Posted by stayouttamalibu

as far as i can tell while skimming through this thread i havent seen krank mentioned. the krank revolution one has hands down the thickest yet tightest low end ive ever heard on a high gain amp. you can turn the bass pretty much all the way up and it never gets flabby. so, so tight and focused still, and it has this insanely piercing blade like quality in the mids that is incredible. just check out their website and list of bands that have started using them for starters, and considering the company got its start with the help of dimebag before he died, thats some pretty good company to sit in. ive been a mesa guy for years and years, but i was honestly blown away the first time i sat in a room and played the rev one. definitely give it a shot if youre looking for serious quality high gain metal tone.

from what I read elsewhere on the interwebz, the list of musicians leaving Krank is rather impressive, and have also heard of musicians not even turning the amps on onstage and playing through a different amp backstage. I've never used one, have heard from some people that you can get some usable tones out of it; I've definitely heard more negative than positive

[TheHatGuy]

As someone who mostly deals with Hard Rock and Metal, I would like to add in another vote for the 5150. For the price, you can't beat it. Just has this cut that not many other amps can bring in to the studio. The clean is definitely something to be desired, but hey, its metal, who cares about clean tones? (e, just kidding).

As far as the Engl stuff goes, I would have to say that the fireball is useless in the studio. It is a one trick pony and doesnt really have much life to it. The powerball is a pretty sick amp. but I would rather use it live than in the studio. The Engl Richie Blackmore signature is the one I would bring to the studio. It has a nice balance of raw, unadulterated power for the cruch and lead channels, but it also has a pretty decent clean as well. I think it is a very well rounded amp. Blending it with a 5150 has given me stellar results.


Oh, and I have to say that I hate Krank and Famas amps. I think a 5150 would beat either of them any day of the week.

[stayouttamalibu]

Originally Posted by Patrick5150

from what I read elsewhere on the interwebz, the list of musicians leaving Krank is rather impressive, and have also heard of musicians not even turning the amps on onstage and playing through a different amp backstage. I've never used one, have heard from some people that you can get some usable tones out of it; I've definitely heard more negative than positive

well i definitely know many of the artists on their roster and they are still totally happy with them. i have gotten amazing tones out of it live and on record. the 5150 is also a great metal amp, but the last time i was in the studio we had a krank rev one and a 5150, and the krank just worked in more situations. in my experience the 5150s can be more hit or miss consistency wise. our producer rented the 5150 we were using and it sounded incredible, enough to make him go out and buy one, and when it got delivered we set it up next to the rented one and a/b'd them for awhile and the one he bought just didnt sound as good, noticeably. im definitely no krank spokesperson, i just know the rev one sounds amazing and should be seriously looked at for anyone looking for a high gain metal sound. it actually works for other stuff, i dont even play metal but i use it.

[BOWIE]

I've got an Engl Fireblall and it just slays. Very modern sound. Super tight, deep low-end. Not too much fizz, even when dosing heavy ammounts of distortion. Sounds stellar at low volumes. Clear channel is surprisingly good, great even. My favorite aspect is the ammount of growl you can get from this beast. Anyone who calls it a "one trick pony" has not spent any time with one.

5150 are cool but they have tons of fizz and you MUST crank them in order to get a useable sound. They are pretty classic though.

[THC MoFo]

Originally Posted by stayouttamalibu

as far as i can tell while skimming through this thread i havent seen krank mentioned. the krank revolution one has hands down the thickest yet tightest low end ive ever heard on a high gain amp. you can turn the bass pretty much all the way up and it never gets flabby. so, so tight and focused still, and it has this insanely piercing blade like quality in the mids that is incredible. just check out their website and list of bands that have started using them for starters, and considering the company got its start with the help of dimebag before he died, thats some pretty good company to sit in. ive been a mesa guy for years and years, but i was honestly blown away the first time i sat in a room and played the rev one. definitely give it a shot if youre looking for serious quality high gain metal tone.

I have owned a krank rev1 already... and uhm it sounded good but was not really good for recording. I would only use it for live purposes, and I'm looking for something that works good in both.

Right now im between the powerball/5150/VHT. amazing reveiws for all. But im a little scepticle about the 5150 because of its age? Its van halen right? Im looking for modern metal, but everyone's telling me its good for modern metal?

Originally Posted by BOWIE

I've got an Engl Fireblall and it just slays. Very modern sound. Super tight, deep low-end. Not too much fizz, even when dosing heavy ammounts of distortion. Sounds stellar at low volumes. Clear channel is surprisingly good, great even. My favorite aspect is the ammount of growl you can get from this beast. Anyone who calls it a "one trick pony" has not spent any time with one.

5150 are cool but they have tons of fizz and you MUST crank them in order to get a useable sound. They are pretty classic though.

Bowie have u worked a lot with 5150's? Have you ever recorded with your Fireball?

I thought pre amps were very helpful, if you got a decent one?

I also have no idea about usb interface? What would be a good one?

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

I commonly use all of the usual suspects (Bogner, ENGL, Mesa, VHT, Marshall, etc.) for metal / hardcore sounds and I've definitely come to prefer the VHT Pitbull Ultra Lead and the Peavey 5150 (original block letter version). These two amps retain amazing clarity and tightness at high gain levels that most other amps can't touch.

The Bogner Uberschall and ENGL Powerball are great amps too, but are VERY gainy and don't quite have the clarity or punch of the Pitbull or the older 5150s.

Putting a great Tube Screamer type pedal in front of the amp works wonders for metal guitar tones as well.

Thank you for the all advice! especially on the tubescreamer!

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

engl amps will give you that modern thrash/death tone you're after, but from what i understand they're pretty touchy and require a lot of tweaking to get a good recorded tone from them...as such, my advice would be the same as others have stated here, and get a 5150/6505. i guarantee that almost every metal album of the last 15 years that makes you go "holy shit, i love that tone!" either has a 5150 as the only amp, or one blended with a mesa/marshall/whatever else. in addition to their amazing sound, they're also the cheapest "legit" high-gain amp out there.

also, for that tight, modern sound, you'll definitely want a tube screamer...screw the over-priced models, grab yourself an ibanez TS7 for $40 and run it in front of the amp with the drive set pretty low(like at 3, max), and the tone/volume wherever you prefer...usually within 1 or 2 notches of 12 o'clock for me and others i know, but go with what works best for you

pickups...that's subjective as hell, but duncan JB's have worked for me...some guys like the 59's, others prefer dimarzio models, or more esoteric(and expensive) shit like bareknuckle

speaker-wise...celestion V30's are going to be the de-facto standard for most modern productions; mics will usually be SM57 with whatever else you like on a cab

preamp-wise, i would just find something that's capable of giving you a decent amount of clean gain. over at ultimatemetal.com, there's an entire forum dedicated to metal production, and there have been various shootouts on there between high-end pres such as API, great river, vintech, etc. and cheaper stuff such as mackie, presonus, and RME pres...and to tell the truth, while you can hear a slight difference in the different pres, it seems to matter much less than the other steps in the signal chain that come previous to it.

i would venture to say that changing the player, guitar, strings, pickups, amp, cabinet, mics, and possibly even more subtle stuff as the brand of tubes and cables would have more of an impact on the final tone than the mic preamp will...at least in the context of raging, high-gain guitars.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by THC MoFo

Right now im between the powerball/5150/VHT. amazing reveiws for all. But im a little scepticle about the 5150 because of its age? Its van halen right? Im looking for modern metal, but everyone's telling me its good for modern metal?

Bowie have u worked a lot with 5150's? Have you ever recorded with your Fireball?

I thought pre amps were very helpful, if you got a decent one?

I also have no idea about usb interface? What would be a good one?

The Fireball has slightly better tone than the Powerball at low volumes (that's how most folks fell at least, but if you need the extra volume, go with the Powerball).

The 5150 is still used by a lot of modern metal bands and doesn't have to sound older, though you do have to work with them to get the tone just right. It's not like an Engle where the tone is just "there". 5150 is very edgy and will cut like a muther if you are trying to find something that works in a dense mix.

Yea, I've recorded with the fireball a lot. Out of several preamps I've used on it, the UA 610 is definitely my favorite. Blue Robbie a distant 2nd. LA-2A with only 2db reduction (or none at all) is just gorgeous on that amp.
I don't know anything about USB interfaces.

[stayouttamalibu]

Originally Posted by THC MoFo

I have owned a krank rev1 already... and uhm it sounded good but was not really good for recording. I would only use it for live purposes, and I'm looking for something that works good in both.

again, i have used it live and in the studio and it has worked amazingly well in both situations. it definitely made up probably 70% of the dirty guitar sounds on the last record i used it on, which was a big budget major label recording, so im not talking about a home recording demo. i also know many other big budget major label recordings it has been used extensively on, and the only reason i even say that is just to point out that in a good studio when you are having shootouts with many different amps, it has consistently performed extremely well for more than one project.

the 5150 is definitely a great metal amp though, tons of the newer euro metal bands use them all the time, its most certainly not just for "old" sounding stuff.

[newlyformedmind]

Try out the Soldano SLO or Decatone. High gain with clarity and tone for days. I think it can do the metal tones. I'm a bit biased though as I am obsessed with the tone of Soldano amps. But a lot of bands obviously use dual or triple rectumfryers

[Ironklad Audio]

^IIRC, the 5150 was based off of a heavily modded SLO that EVH played back in the day...

from what I read elsewhere on the interwebz, the list of musicians leaving Krank is rather impressive

from what i understand, a lot of those guys signed to krank because they had a tight relationship with their marketing guy, who has now jumped ship to randall and dragged a bunch of the artists along with him

goes to show, once again, that having the right personality and delivering good service often trumps the quality of the product in question

[TheHatGuy]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

Anyone who calls it a "one trick pony" has not spent any time with one.

I have a friend who owns one and I have played on it extensively (he let me borrow it for about a month to try it on a session). I just didnt like the way it sounded when we tracked it. I tried different mic placement, 3 different cabs (1960, Mesa, and Bogner). I even had my buddy come over and try to help us dial in some tones, but nothing seemed to come close. We ended up using a 5150 and an Uberschall in the final mix. The Uberschall was a really cool addition for this project when it was mixed with the 5150. It didnt sound so hot by itself, but I was just amazed at how well it blended with our 5150.

[James Meeker]

As much as I hate to admit it, because I'm not a fan of their amps except the earlier Mark I's and II's, but the Mesa/Boogie Stilleto Deuce has impressed me for how well it records.

[Breag]

I realize I am a few days late, but I have been running all over the city playing metal through various amps in this sort of vein. I have not yet played an Engl, though I was very impressed with one of their 4x12 cabs that I played through. The VHT Pittbull is by far a more versatile amp than the 5150/6505 or the Mesa Triple Rec. Frankly put the Uberschall wasn't much to write home about either, it was inferior to the Krank Revolution for the bottom end especially. One I would mention that hasn't been so far that is absolutely incredible is the OD 100 by Custom Audio Amplifiers. You can do pretty much anything you want to with this head unit and it still sounds good. I ran it through an Engl cabinet and was blown away. I also admit I am sort of a fan of Vader cabinets, but that may just be me

[Joshua Estock]

I have a Mesa Dual Rectifier and I love it simply because you can get really heavy sounds that are tonally amazing, but it also has come low gain and clean tones that are usable. I have an old block letter 5150 and it is great for the heavy tones, but useless otherwise. I find that Engl amps are also a one-tick pony. If I were you I would go with the VHT Pitbull. It is one of the best amps around and has a super thick, but extremely responsive tone. I wish I had the cash to buy one.

[TheHatGuy]

Originally Posted by Breag

I am sort of a fan of Vader cabinets, but that may just be me

What do you find pleasing about them? Personally, I think they are the worst cabinets I have ever had to work with. They are designed to handle a lot of power, but they sound terrible when you play anything but heavily distorted guitar through them. Even then, they didnt sound as good as a regular old mesa cab or a 1960.

[projectMalamute]

Might as well chime in with another vote for the 5150.

This is a good link on the subject:

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

[Breag]

I rather like the low end out of the Vader cabinet, and the general price tag helps my opinion of them as well. They are finicky though admittedly. I certainly haven't ever recorded with one, so I couldn't speak on experience about that