Apogee Duet as standlone device & Alternative to an Apogee duet (Preamp/AD-DA)?

[treewhispers]

Hi,

I have searched for hours for informations if the apogee duet can be used as standalone pre-amp/converter device (just powered by firewire but on a PC).
I KNOW officially you need a Mac to get access to the menue and use this as an sound-device and I don`t have a mac.
but I have hope! my hope ist, that at least the preamps and in-/outputs could work in the normal mode (stock settings) as soon as this thing is connected to a firewire-port (no matter if MAC or PC, cause its firewire!?).
(some options like choosing the active channel and the gain you can access directly via the wheel)

then I would need a tool to send the converted signal from the apogee to the digital-In of a soundcard to bypass the converter in the soundcard ( I got an E-MU 1212)! but maybe this doesn`t exist `cause the apogee didn`t have I/Os.... ;-( an I guess converting a signal twice doesn`t work out well.

Building a MAC?
ok, I could built a "mac" with some compatible components like intel-processor, mainboard and so on. if you guys have any ideas building a cheap mac-system please let me know.
some patched versions of macs OS work on those systems.

so this is much trouble just because it seems to be such a good deal, that you get good preamps/conversion for just 500-600 bucks but it`s really unfair towards PC-users and gives the mac user an "audio-quality monopol" in this typical homerecording price range. but I hope I`m wrong and there are real PC-alternatives to the apogge duet in the same price range.

I got a E-MU 1212m. the converters are claimed to be good (mastering-grade) - ist this right?
because people spend much more on stand-alone converters and some say there are worlds between this and the cheaper converters, some say the improvement isn`t really there.
and concerning the apogee everyone seems to like the sound of the whole unit (pre-amps AND conversion).
I just need at least ONE good converter that is an audible improvement towards the E-MU 1212.

on the other hand I need a good pre-amp. I hav rent a crane song flamingo, which is a good sounding unit, far better than a vtb-1 cheapo of course. I also tried an EHX 12ay7 which colored the sound too much with the stock tubes.
I just need a decent pre-amp that don`t add so much of its own to the music but that did sound neutral in a musical way!
I have read much about this topic and I`d like to know if there are besides the apogee duet other good preamps in the same price-range?

I have read good thing on the pre-amp quality of the onyx satellite (same preamp-quality like in a onyx 1212 but a mono signal gets panned hard right/left thru one channel and u have to use the inserts to get the uncoverted signal...)
then the M-AUDIO DMP-3, that should be very clear and neutral, also the old goldmike BUT I don`t like to spend 500-600 bucks on a preamp alone if the apogee duet cost as well and delivers good preams AND conversion!

so does anyone have a suggestion for a good audio-card, converter unit AND a good preamp? maybe a 2 in 1 solution: PCI-card with integrated preamps.
this problem drives me really crazy!

(and maybe someone knows which converteres/preamps are built into the apogee duet that this thing should sound so good. do they really built their own converters or are they just labeled as "apoogee convertes"???)

best wishes/thanks for reading!

Michael

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by treewhispers

Hi,

I have searched for hours for informations if the apogee duet can be used as standalone pre-amp/converter device (just powered by firewire but on a PC).

The Apogee Duet is, unfortunately, a Mac only product.

I KNOW officially you need a Mac to get access to the menue and use this as an sound-device and I don`t have a mac.
but I have hope! my hope ist, that at least the preamps and in-/outputs could work in the normal mode (stock settings) as soon as this thing is connected to a firewire-port (no matter if MAC or PC, cause its firewire!?).
(some options like choosing the active channel and the gain you can access directly via the wheel)

You need a Macintosh to operate this device, as it is a buss powered converter and has no internal power supply, so using it as "stand alone" really cannot be done either way, with a Mac or without a Mac. It was designed to interface with the Mac OS, and Logic, as well as other Core Audio [Mac OS] Audio Programs.

then I would need a tool to send the converted signal from the apogee to the digital-In of a soundcard to bypass the converter in the soundcard ( I got an E-MU 1212)! but maybe this doesn`t exist `cause the apogee didn`t have I/Os.... ;-( an I guess converting a signal twice doesn`t work out well.Building a MAC?
ok, I could built a "mac" with some compatible components like intel-processor, mainboard and so on. if you guys have any ideas building a cheap mac-system please let me know. some patched versions of macs OS work on those systems.

Why don't you just get a device that will operate with your chosen DA Workstation. There are COUNTLESS devices that will work with a PC, such as PCI [e] cards, USB devices, FW devices. If you have a PC, and want a similar device; as the Duet, there is the Sound Devices USBpre, which is a very high quality device for professional location engineers. It has the features you need over USB with your PC.

so this is much trouble just because it seems to be such a good deal, that you get good preamps/conversion for just 500-600 bucks but it`s really unfair towards PC-users and gives the mac user an "audio-quality monopol" in this typical homerecording price range. but I hope [B]I`m wrong and there are real PC-alternatives to the apogge duet in the same price range.

You might be able to find a Mini-Me with FW on the used market, which supports both platforms that'd be an option for you, of course it's only half the box the Duet is. Yes, its true Apogee Makes products geared towards Mac OS, and if we keep telling them to produce dual platform products [which they already do with FW in the higher end converter systems] they just might listen. The Duet/Ensemble interfaces are Mac only, because the design takes into consideration the integration of software programs and audio drivers. In the end; there are other options out there for you; I think its just you won't find them where you are looking.

I got a E-MU 1212m. the converters are claimed to be good (mastering-grade) - ist this right?

I would not suspect that device to be of "professional mastering grade", but it will record audio.

because people spend much more on stand-alone converters and some say there are worlds between this and the cheaper converters, some say the improvement isn`t really there.
and concerning the apogee everyone seems to like the sound of the whole unit (pre-amps AND conversion).
I just need at least ONE good converter that is an audible improvement towards the E-MU 1212.

I hear an improvement with higher quality converters; as they have better analog electronics. The Digital Side of these boxes might be there; [even with your EMU box, but when a company downgrades [or cheapens] the analog electronics, the quality of the conversion suffers greatly. Regardless of what anyone says; the jury won't be out until you demo/listen/use these things under real world applications, with your equipment, and your music, so you can come to an educated conclusion about the end result.

on the other hand I need a good pre-amp. I hav rent a crane song flamingo, which is a good sounding unit, far better than a vtb-1 cheapo of course. I also tried an EHX 12ay7 which colored the sound too much with the stock tubes.
I just need a decent pre-amp that don`t add so much of its own to the music but that did sound neutral in a musical way!
I have read much about this topic and [B]I`d like to know if there are besides the apogee duet other good preamps in the same price-range?

Sound Devices USBpre [comparable, yet not comparable]

I have read good thing on the pre-amp quality of the onyx satellite (same preamp-quality like in a onyx 1212 but a mono signal gets panned hard right/left thru one channel and u have to use the inserts to get the uncoverted signal...)
then the M-AUDIO DMP-3, that should be very clear and neutral, also the old goldmike BUT [B]I don`t like to spend 500-600 bucks on a preamp alone if the apogee duet cost as well and delivers good preams AND conversion!so does anyone have a suggestion for a good audio-card, converter unit AND a good preamp? maybe a 2 in 1 solution: PCI-card with integrated preamps.
this problem drives me really crazy!

I would also suggest the Lynx L22 PCI card, and pairing it with the FMR RNP. Might be a little more than your budget, but worth saving for.

[treewhispers]

sorry, obviously you don`t have understand my message!

1. I already know that the duet is a mac-only product and I know I need a mac to "operate" this!
2. my question was not if one to use it as standalone in the way that it can be used without any computer-connetion and as you easily can read in my posting I know it has a bus-driven power supply (firewire).

my question was just, if one connect the duet to any firewire port could it been simply used as preamp without operating it via any software, without installing drivers for it!? in this case one could use it on PCs too.

so I like to find out from a user, if the duet is really "on" if it gets power via firewire and if its able to let a signal come thru or if its muted as long as you don`t install the software/drivers for it?

because gain and active channels can be choosed via the wheel/knob on the unit and via the cable chain you can directly plug in your instruments it makes me hope that it could be used as simple preamp that delivers a converted signal on the output. and then it would be nice to do a mod that gives the duet an digital out.
_________________________________________

Why don't you just get a device that will operate with your chosen DA Workstation. There are COUNTLESS devices that will work with a PC, such as PCI [e] cards, USB devices, FW devices. If you have a PC, and want a similar device; as the Duet, there is the Sound Devices USBpre, which is a very high quality device for professional location engineers. It has the features you need over USB with your PC.

because I`m poor but not stupid. I know that apogee delivers very good converters and the one in the duet are alike much more expensiv units.
and the preamps are very good too.

the sound devices USBpre hasn`t a converter and still its more expensiv
than the duet!
my question was about "alternatives" to the apogee. this means I want the same converter quality/the same good preamp quality for almost the same price! if you suggest a preamp that just cost as much as the apogee duet, I still have to buy good converters separately, then I would spend as much money as a mini mac AND duet cost!
and the lynx together with the RNP cost also as much as a mini mac and a duet!
and I doubt if the RNP pre-amp is just as good as the apoogee, because some people claim that the difference to an M -AUDIO DMP-3.

the jury won't be out until you demo/listen/use these things under real world applications, with your equipment, and your music, so you can come to an educated conclusion about the end result.

this might be right, but this is also such an easy answer.
I guess if one would really know the differences in converters one could give clear suggestions which converters have good analog parts and seem to be comparable to apogee and which product offers these converters, the same about preamps.
in the price range of the apogee are enough products, so which one stand up to the apogee duet soundwise?

best wishes

Michael

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by treewhispers

but this is also such an easy answer.

Exactly!

[Dysanfel]

Remember, however, that the Duet does work in Parallels and VMware Fusion. Thus showing that, if a driver could be written, the Duet would work in Windows.

[psycho_monkey]

The duet doesn't work standalone. that's the answer to your question. the preamps can't be used on their own.

[treewhispers]

I must add that the E-Mu 1212 uses the same ADC as the Lynx L22 but I was asking for a better converter but "Roc Mixwell" sells both the Lynx L22 AND the RNP, maybe that`s the reason he suggest these to me...
indeed the lynx may have be a better DAC, so it may seem to be the better card, but if just ADC matters both cards aren`t so different from each other.

[Pohaku]

AFAIK, about the only thing out there remotely in the ball park quality and pricewise, that will work with a PC platform, is a Mini-me. As previously noted, you might be able to find a used one with a FW out on E-Bay.

[Skywalker]

Treewhispers you can build your own Hackintosh computer that can run Mac OSX if you have the skills and are willing to take the risk. Google Hackintosh.

Or you can buy a second hand Mac...

Or another interface... I hear great things about the Echo soundcards and some are really cheap, maybe not as good as a Duet but still good enough to record with and you would still have money for the RNP.

hope that helps

[Ponyboy]

Hi There...

have you considered a tc konnekt 24d? It works both pre's standalone, as well as the dsp's! The onboard reverb is taken from the 4000 system and works completely standalone at 96k (there's also a channel strip), and is completely balanced front and back.

I've tested its converters against my RME ADI and my Allen and Heath z16, as its AD is surprisingly good...and DA is very decent. unlike duet it has adat and spidif so you can upgrade converters.

I've used this at acoustic gigs, as in save my vocal and guitar setting channels is the dsp mixer, save it to one of three 'standalone' settings (accessible at the front panel). You ca also adjust two settings standalone like the decay and mix of the reverb

Interestingly you can build a Mac... it's called a 'hackintosh' and works by patching the osx software to intel. I know of people doing it to degree's of success (although it also has degree's of legality!) dfegad I've used one with logic (a quad core pc grunt box built for $500). Would'nt know I was using a pc

[rcb4t2]

Just another nail in the coffin of this idea, but afaik the duet's knobs work through a software connection, they are not standalone / onboard control. Also no digital i/o means you'd just be buying a $500 2-channel preamp (assuming it would work in standalone, which it won't). For $500 you can get a competitive (or better, probably), preamp. I saw some Trident S20s on ebay for like $450 recently. I always liked those... good luck!

[Toro]

everybody hates the m-box but check Apogee Duet vs. Mbox 2 Pro DEATHMATCH!
I have both apogee duet and m-box, i can truly say that the m-box gives way more
low end and some....... balls.. that the mighty duet doesn't have, the duet is prety sweet

[chironomidae]

tl;dr, however I wanted to mention:

Originally Posted by treewhispers

I got a E-MU 1212m. the converters are claimed to be good (mastering-grade) - ist this right?

I had a 1212m for about 3 years, and it went on the fritz (not sure why). I loved mine so much that I just got a new one. I use it along with an M-Audio DMP3. Total cost is around $300, and I think you could easily spend $1k and still not be as good.

Of course, if you need more than 2 ins and outs you need something else, but if that's all you need then you're golden. I mostly do VSTi production work, occasionally tracking my digital piano or the occasional vocal.