Mackie Onyx 1640

[area51recording]

I've got a line on a good deal on one of these. I was wondering if anyone here has hands on experience w/one? Please no "I don't have one, but I hear they suck" replies How does the Onyx stack up w/ something like the MixWiz?

Thanks!

[golden beers]

i don't have one but i hear they suck.













just kidding. sorry can't help on this one

[MichaelMackie]

I have the 1620.
It's seriously badass.

I don't know anything about mix wiz's, so I can't compare, but I love the asshole out of mine.

[drbam]

Originally Posted by area51recording

I've got a line on a good deal on one of these. I was wondering if anyone here has hands on experience w/one? Please no "I don't have one, but I hear they suck" replies How does the Onyx stack up w/ something like the MixWiz?

Thanks!

I compared the 1640 and a mix wizard side by side in my studio. They are very different in many ways, especially how they sound. When monitoring/mixing, the Onyx sounds clear, open and quite transparent to me. The A&H has a somewhat larger, colored sound - typical of British design. Considering the price, I think the eq and pres are good on both - but again - different. The 1640 has a few more features, busses, and the firewire option, but the A&H has 100mm faders and a much better build quality than any Mackie since Loud Technologies moved their manufacturing to China. Although the A&H is also made in China, there's a noticeable quality difference in the build of these units.

So I'd suggest you try out both and see which one fits your needs and workflow. Both are good units and both have their pros & cons and in my view are priced appropriately.

[topslakr]

I've had one for some time, perhaps 18 months or more. I don't remember when I received it. I bought mine through 'Front End Audio' and had them modify the board so the EQ was in the direct output for recording. I've been very happy with the board both in feature set and sound quality.

I use it in my multi-room rehearsal and recording space. It stays fully wired all the time via patchbays and the only serious gripe I have is that you don't switch between line or mic input, the board listens to both all the time which can cause me some head aches. I wish it had a Mic/Line switch.

The EQ sounds fine to my ears and I don't hesitate to use it as I'm recording if I need to. Over all the board is very quite, I hear very little noise when no audio is passing though. The full 6 bus AUX system is awesome and comes in extremely handy when recording. It would have been nice to be able to use the onboard talkback on the main outputs but I can understand why it's not available, esp on a board designed for live use mixing front of house. Being able to send it to the sub groups and Auxs leaves me enough options though and I can route talkback to the main outs if need be.

It's built like a tank and though the size is fairly large the features are really packed into the top panel. It's designed to fit into a 19" rack after all. Everything is labeled clearly and I don't have any trouble figuring out what everything does. The only label issue I run into is the hash marks on the fader throws are hidden buy the fader cap so if you are trying to put channels right on the null point or something, you have to sort of guess as to the correct spot. I wouldn't consider the 60mm faders especially equipped for very technical mixing though. They work just fine and fell smooth with just enough resistance, as do all the pots, but it's a non-automated live board.. not some fancy flying fader setup.

I've very happy with it. None of my gripes have ever stopped a session or rehearsal. I haven't used a MixWiz in a while so I can't make a direct comparison but the Mackie feels better and offers more features then the Wizard's I've used do/did. I wouldn't put this board above a Midas Venice, but it's a solid board that is designed to move audio with out much hassle or putting a sonic stamp on it.

I suppose my highest praise of it would be that I have bought a second one, a variation really, for a live sound install. We bought an Onyx 24.4 and have been using that for a year or so to great effect as well.

Robert

[danalog]

I work in a pro audio shop in a town full of Mackie-lovers. We've sold quite a few Onyx boards, as well as A&H, and the main complaint on the Onyx is not enough gain with dynamic/ribbon mics. Plug in a 58, and you've gotta crank the trim to get a good strong signal. Not my experience on MixWizards and other A&H mixers. Frankly, A&H's seem to be more of a professional product.

[Ironklad Audio]

i've had an onyx 1640 for almost 3 years now, and have never had a problem with the pres being under-gained...you might run out of gain if you're mic'ing a finger-picked acoustic with a ribbon mic, but in that case i probably wouldn't use the onyx pres anyways

the only main gripe i've had thus far was that the PSU crapped out in my unit last month...i went to power it up, and all the lights started blinking and it blasted this annoying click through the monitors

mackie made shit right though by promptly sending out a new unit and picking up the bill to ship the old one back...i'm just glad it broke before the warranty ran out, and am now hoping the same doesn't happen to the new board

[daverich]

I use one as the heart of my studio.

I also take it out and record gigs with it via the firewire expansion card.

It's a fantastic unit and the best purchase I've made since I bought the fireface800, which I sold to buy this unit and I'm not sorry. (although if I could afford to have both I would)

If it fits what you need it for, there's nothing better.

If you're trying to shoe-horn it to do something it's not really designed for (the pres for instance are not as quiet as the RME) then you may be disappointed.

I love the sound of it though,- it's clear, and very punchy and also does extremely well at avoiding feedback. I'm not sure why,- it just doens't seem to be a problem with this desk whereas it was with the early VLZ we used to use.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

[tysonviolin]

I have both a 16:2 mix wizard and a mackie onyx 24.4
the wizard has more of a vibe to it. The mackie is nice and clean though. Both pres have about the same amount of gain. The mackie's internal signal flow is -10 opposed to the A&Hs +4 levels. This is only an issue if you are taking analog direct outs or inserts. The firewire option works and sounds great on the mackie.

Good luck deciding...

[area51recording]

So, the Mackie's direct outs are pre eq, unless modded. What about the Wiz? Pre or post eq?

[AnonJack]

Originally Posted by area51recording

So, the Mackie's direct outs are pre eq, unless modded.

Really? All the Mackie boards or just Onyx?

[Chunky But Funky]

Originally Posted by AnonJack

Really? All the Mackie boards or just Onyx?

I believe so. I have owned a 1202, 1402 vlz and now an Onyx 1620. I have always used the "insert to first click" option for a direct out without interruption to master for a zero latency monitor mix through the board with the insert tap going to the interface. I have been thinking long and hard about the Front End Audo mod (I got my onyx board used earlier this month). But I really bought the board for an open mic, so recording is not it's primary application.

Doug

[cavern]

Originally Posted by area51recording

So, the Mackie's direct outs are pre eq, unless modded. What about the Wiz? Pre or post eq?

the mix wizzard has configurable jumpers inside that can change them to pre or post..same thing with the busses.i changed em on mine. it's in the manual.

[AnonJack]

Originally Posted by Chunky But Funky

I believe so. I have owned a 1202, 1402 vlz and now an Onyx 1620. I have always used the "insert to first click" option for a direct out without interruption to master for a zero latency monitor mix through the board with the insert tap going to the interface. I have been thinking long and hard about the Front End Audo mod (I got my onyx board used earlier this month). But I really bought the board for an open mic, so recording is not it's primary application.

Doug

Wow, that is crap. Kinda stupid really, when they push the hell out of that new Perkins EQ. I just looked up that Front End Audio mod and it's an additional $200.00!

[GordZilla]

Originally Posted by cavern

the mix wizzard has configurable jumpers inside that can change them to pre or post..same thing with the busses.i changed em on mine. it's in the manual.

Cool... good to know that

Sure wish Mackie would do something like this too... having the option right from the factory would certainly add to the value of these otherwise pretty decent boards

[drbam]

Originally Posted by AnonJack

Wow, that is crap. Kinda stupid really, when they push the hell out of that new Perkins EQ. I just looked up that Front End Audio mod and it's an additional $200.00!

Agreed - this obvious design flaw is another example of Loud Technologies cutting corners. Although Mackie still makes some very good products and is competitive in their price range and feature set, as a long time owner of many Mackie products (beginning in '94), in my view, the Mackie brand has become a shadow of its former self.

[AnonJack]

yeah it's a shame. i am in their price/target demographic and was planning to purchase this board until i read this thread. glad i came across it.

[Cato]

Originally Posted by drbam

in my view, the Mackie brand has become a shadow of its former self.

The way everyone bashes Mackie on this board, you would think that their rep is improving with the Onyx.

[shaddai]

area51 check your PM's

[omtayslick]

I have a friend who picked one up as a replacement for one of the Mackie boards with the VLZ preamps. We were playing live (as an acoustic guitar duo) the first time he used it. Loved the sound live compared to the other Mackie.

A couple of months later, his Focusrite Octopre had a problem and had to go in for service. So he needed more pres in a hurry for recording. I suggested that he try the Onyx. It sounded just fine, and he subsequently sold the Octopre when it returned.
The Onyx is particularly nice on drums.

[drbam]

Originally Posted by Cato

The way everyone bashes Mackie on this board, you would think that their rep is improving with the Onyx.

To be clear, I'm not bashing the sound of the Onyx mixers or the Perkins eq. I like them a lot and use an Onyx 24/4 in my studio (w/PSU modded for external placement).

I am saying that the build quality and overall QC sucks compared to their earlier models. Take one of them apart and you will see what I mean. I also heard from an extremely reliable source (a major retailer whom I've worked with for a decade) that Mackie has 2 warehouses just for the returns. Apparently they don't bother to fix them because they find it cheaper to just send the customer a new unit. dfegad

[Ironklad Audio]

this obvious design flaw is another example of Loud Technologies cutting corners

how is it a design flaw?

they purposefully kept the EQ out of the firewire signal path so that the EQ changes you made to a live mix wouldn't be reflected in your recorded tracks

i would have preferred if they would have made the FW send switchable between post-and-pre EQ, but it's not like it was something that they didn't do on purpose

[drbam]

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

how is it a design flaw?

they purposefully kept the EQ out of the firewire signal path so that the EQ changes you made to a live mix wouldn't be reflected in your recorded tracks

i would have preferred if they would have made the FW send switchable between post-and-pre EQ, but it's not like it was something that they didn't do on purpose

From what I understand, there's probably been more formal complaints about the pre/post design on the Onyx mixers than any of their models past or present. This thread alone highlights that fact as it indicates at least one lost sale of an Onyx mixer. The flaw is in that they did not allocate appropriate research funds to accurately determine what their customers really wanted and, secondly, with any vision at all, they should have designed a way for the user to change the configuration (ie, jumpers like the A&H design) or some other mechanism. Its not like they weren't aware that at least 50% if not more of their mixers are used in studio recording applications where the user will want a post fader/eq set up. In my view, this was simply a cost cutting strategy that backfired. Even Mackie techs acknowledge (privately) that they made a mistake with this. One of the greatest tributes to Mackie (the original company) was that they gave the customer what they wanted. Loud Technologies however, is starting to smell like the US auto industry in that they are making assumptions of what they "think" the customer "should" want.

[PDC]

Originally Posted by drbam

The A&H has a somewhat larger, colored sound - typical of British design.

Uh...that is a nutty statement. Being British does not make or break a product.

[PDC]

Originally Posted by drbam

To be clear, I'm not bashing the sound of the Onyx mixers or the Perkins eq. I like them a lot and use an Onyx 24/4 in my studio (w/PSU modded for external placement).

I am saying that the build quality and overall QC sucks compared to their earlier models. Take one of them apart and you will see what I mean. I also heard from an extremely reliable source (a major retailer whom I've worked with for a decade) that Mackie has 2 warehouses just for the returns. Apparently they don't bother to fix them because they find it cheaper to just send the customer a new unit. dfegad

That is true with anything. Neumann doesn't repair electronics in their mics either. Behringer compacts their returns. $75/hour bench tech time vs. $35 to replace a $150 retail box...you do the math. I would rather have a new unit than a repaired one myself. This is the age in which we live.

[drbam]

Originally Posted by PDC

Uh...that is a nutty statement. Being British does not make or break a product.

No need to get defensive PDC. I was only attempting to be descriptive of the A&H's sound when comparing it to the Onyx, and I wasn't being critical - pro or con in regards to the sound. And to clarify, the A&H does impart what is commonly referred to as a "British sound" and has even been marketed as such. Of course it is simply a matter of taste whether one likes that sound or not. The irony is that the mix wizard is probably more Chinese than British. As you said in another post: "This is the age in which we live."

Peace & Happy Solstice . . .

[PDC]

You said it not me. You said that A&H sounded the way it does because it is British. Funny how the A&H products share the same chips and electronic components as Mackie, Soundcrap and all of the others, and they have a British sound. That's all I am saying. I am guessing that none of them have some American designers too.

[drbam]

Originally Posted by PDC

You said it not me. You said that A&H sounded the way it does because it is British. Funny how the A&H products share the same chips and electronic components as Mackie, Soundcrap and all of the others, and they have a British sound. That's all I am saying. I am guessing that none of them have some American designers too.

You're misquoting me. I said "British design" - which is not the same as "British." I could care less where the components come from or what they are. And although the Perkins eq may have it origins from a so-called British design, the primary point I was making is that I did a 3-day side by side comparison of the 1640 and 16:2 mix wizard in my studio and these units sound EXTREMELY different. That's all I was trying to convey to the OP.

FWIW, I've worked on several pre-Chinese large format Soundcraft, A&H, and some Trident boards over the years. While being different, they all have a certain sound quality that is referred to as "British". Whether you agree or not, "warm", "full" and "large" are 3 of the most commonly used adjectives for this. In my view, Mackie doesn't really have a "sound" per se – at least nothing that is identifiable in the way that the others are.

Frankly I don't even know what point you're trying to make here - whatever it is, it doesn't seem relevant to the OP and so I'll sign off of this one.

[PDC]

Again, you said something that is not true. A design of British origins does not equate to any of those adjectives all of the time. I was merely pointing out the bullsit in your statement, which you keep repeating, that Bristish = bigger, thicker, warmer, whatever you used.

I can point to many British companies who designed product, and they mass produced ASS. You are using the marketing speak that is totally bogus. Even Rupert Neve himself has said that this mentality is erronious.

Fine. They sound different. But that is where you should have left it. Not that the A&H sounds British. That is crap. Which British? A&H makes a ton of crap that sounds horrid for the MI market. They have a history of high failure rates. When I was selling them they were in the habbit of sending units DOA with replacement power supplies right with them, if not later. So if that is what British is, they can stick it.

They use the same parts and assemble technology as everyone else. The designs are different. The service is very different. But to equate these differences with a geographical area or denomination of people is laughable at best.

[seventn]

PDC, I don't know if you are british or Chinese design but you do have your own sound; you sound like an ass.

Lighten up and stay off the red bull.