Some advice on upgrading my tiny studio?

[adcameron]

Hi all, this is my first post here and I've looked around the forums for similar threads but there wasn't anything with quite the exact thing I needed so I thought I'd start a new one.

For a few years I've been recording music with just a Dell Inspiron 9100 running XP, Cubase SL3, a Presonus Firebox, and an SM-58 and a Rode NT1-A. I went to an audio engineering kind of technical school here in Austin that exposed me to a lot of high-end studio concepts, but I'm still very in the dark when it comes to connecting the low-end prosumer concepts to the high-end studio stuff. What I really want is just better sounding recordings, maybe some newer gear that will help me to do more interesting things, etc. Where do I go from here? If any of you were in this situation what would be the logical next step up?

Sorry this is kind of lengthy, and let me thank you in advance for the advice.

-adam

[Fieldstone]

Welcome.

Do you want to record yourself only or do you want to record others/clients?

What type of music do you record now and want to record in the future?

Do you have a good space to record in? Are the instruments you are recording in good working order and sound good?

What is your budget? Great things can happen on a small budget.

The answers to these will help guide your decision making process.

[skiltrip]

Originally Posted by adcameron

Hi all, this is my first post here and I've looked around the forums for similar threads but there wasn't anything with quite the exact thing I needed so I thought I'd start a new one.

For a few years I've been recording music with just a Dell Inspiron 9100 running XP, Cubase SL3, a Presonus Firebox, and an SM-58 and a Rode NT1-A. I went to an audio engineering kind of technical school here in Austin that exposed me to a lot of high-end studio concepts, but I'm still very in the dark when it comes to connecting the low-end prosumer concepts to the high-end studio stuff. What I really want is just better sounding recordings, maybe some newer gear that will help me to do more interesting things, etc. Where do I go from here? If any of you were in this situation what would be the logical next step up?

Sorry this is kind of lengthy, and let me thank you in advance for the advice.

-adam

I'm not familiar with that version of Cubase (nor any version of Cubase really), but I do know Cubase is a respectable DAW platform to be working on.

First question you gotta ask yourself... "Do I like Cubase, or do I not like it and want to try something else?".

Your DAW will determine what interfaces you can use. I say this mainly speaking of Pro Tools, which a lot of people want to get into.

I also think the Presonus Firebox isn't a horrible interface, though there are much better of course, and your Rode Mic and SM58 you can use those throughout your entire recording career.

Since you have a pretty good condenser (the Rode), and a nice workhorse dynamic (the 58), I'd simply start thinking about interfaces and DAW.

If you like the version of Cubase you are working with, just get a better interface with better preamps and conversion. The M-Audio ProFire stuff has a lot of good reviews. The RME Fireface stuff is well loved as well. Other people will have to chime in on specific interfaces, as I've only experienced devices from M-Audio and RME (and my old Digi001).

[adcameron]

First off, thanks for the replies! You are asking good questions; I should have thought of these before.

I mostly record some kind of straight-forward, sometimes slightly off the wall kind of rock/pop/basically stuff I just think would be fun to play live while I hope to get a band together. My myspace is here if anyone has a few minutes and wants to get an idea:

MySpace.com - Stay-At-Home - Austin, Texas - Rock - www.myspace.com/stayathome

Most of those I did at home; the one that stands out was done at my school which is why it sounds better.

Anyway, it's music like this I'm interested in doing, and I'm pretty sure I'll just be recording myself for the next few years, but I do play a variety of instruments including drums so I want to be able to mic some drums at some point.

I think I like my mics; is there any way to get some kind of better preamps and use them in conjunction with the Firebox? Or at this point would a good idea be to just sell the Firebox and get on with something a little more upscale that has better preamps and more inputs and stuff?

With respect to Cubase as a DAW, I find it's easy to use and very similar to ProTools. I kind of like the aesthetic of ProTools a bit more, but either way...I'm about to get a new laptop and I'm thinking of making the switch to Linux, so that will be a whole different animal as far as using DAWs and stuff is concerned I guess...that is probably another thread.

Lastly, I'm sure if any professional saw my space they would have something to say about that; it's basically my apartment in Austin. No treatment whatsoever. I'm not really sure how to go about that as I haven't got much of a budget for that kind of thing.

Anyway, let me know what y'all think about using preamps and stuff in conjunction with the Firebox or just switching, etc. Thanks a bunch!

-adam

[adcameron]

Okay, I posted a few hours ago but it hasn't shown up; I'm afraid it got lost in the system or something so I'll go ahead and post again (sorry if you're not supposed to do this, I don't use forums very often):

In response to Fieldstone's questions:

I'm pretty much only recording myself now. I have some of what I've done at MySpace.com - Stay-At-Home - Austin, Texas - Rock - www.myspace.com/stayathome and they're real rough so take it easy on me if you think they sound like crap

I honestly don't have a very good space; I'm pretty much doing everything out of my room in an apartment in Austin. No treatment whatsoever. I pretty much know a little about mic placement but that's it.

Not much of a budget to speak of, but I can save up/sell things/get a job next semester (hopefully), etc.

As far as Cubase, I'm happy with it as a DAW. I'm getting a new laptop for Christmas that I'm planning on running Linux on and keeping Windows until I can figure out how to work my recording stuff in Linux - probably a whole different batch of problems for another thread, but anyway...aesthetically I think I like ProTools more but they both seem very similar to me.

So I guess in y'all's opinion, does the next logical step seem like just upgrading, or trying to maybe get some sort of preamp/mixer that I can use in conjunction with the Firebox? To be honest, I'm not even exactly sure how that would work...I'm pretty in the dark, if you can't tell, I'll be honest.

Thanks!

adam

[Fieldstone]

Just judging by your answers my opinion would be the following on how to spend your resources/time:

1) Treat the room you have as best you can.

2) If you want to track drums, a good way would be to have a mixer with a nice basic and clean set of preamps. A lot of folks knock them this site, but I think Mackie's 8 bus console is second to none in terms of flexibility and price and despite what some folks say, the pres are pretty clean with decent headroom. Don't get too hung up in the preamp tailchase...there are many other factors that are more important to getting a decent sound...just get ones that are basic and clean. Most of the pro-sumer stuff out there yields good results.

3) Get a couple of versatile mics for vocals, acoustic guitar, and drums. Examples would be:

• Shure SM57 (snare, toms, guitar amps, vox..etc)
• Sennheiser MD421 (drums, guitar/bass amps)
• Shure SM81 (overheads, acoustic guitar, strings...etc)

The above are tools that you likely will never have to sell throughout your career as they are industry standard and won't cost you an arm and a leg.

To me....mic selection and placement will get you a significant piece of your sound. The quality of the instrument, player, room will be a major piece also. Choices of mic pres, compressors and eqs are worth considering...but only once you've figured out how to get the best sound from selection, placement, player, instrument, and room. Simply put...getting the "right" pre won't fix poor mic placement.

Hope this helps,
JR

[adcameron]

Thanks Fieldstone,

1) I've done a bit of reading on treating rooms - I live in a fairly decent-sized apartment room that I'll be moving out of in 6 months. It doesn't seem like it would be worth covering the walls in that foam stuff (although I guess that would make it sound the best), because it doesn't seem as though it would be easy to just pull off and put back on somewhere else. Are there any short-term solutions you personally could recommend?

2) When you say "...a good way would be to have a mixer with a nice basic and clean set of preamps," do you mean simply another interface that I could hook up to my laptop via firewire (or whatever it is this month, thank you very much Apple for not including it on your new Macbooks) like I do with my PreSonus Firebox or is it something that I need to put in the chain between my mics and the Firebox? Intuitively it seems as though I could ditch the Firebox with this option, but...as I was typing this it occurred to me that I could just go look this up at Mackie's website. Still, I like to have insight from real people!

3) Thanks for the mic recommendations. There are so many and it's hard to tell which will sound "good" (and what does good mean anyway?). If anyone else reading this has any mic recommendations off the top of their head, please post them!

[Fieldstone]

Originally Posted by adcameron

Thanks Fieldstone,

1) I've done a bit of reading on treating rooms - I live in a fairly decent-sized apartment room that I'll be moving out of in 6 months. It doesn't seem like it would be worth covering the walls in that foam stuff (although I guess that would make it sound the best), because it doesn't seem as though it would be easy to just pull off and put back on somewhere else. Are there any short-term solutions you personally could recommend?

2) When you say "...a good way would be to have a mixer with a nice basic and clean set of preamps," do you mean simply another interface that I could hook up to my laptop via firewire (or whatever it is this month, thank you very much Apple for not including it on your new Macbooks) like I do with my PreSonus Firebox or is it something that I need to put in the chain between my mics and the Firebox? Intuitively it seems as though I could ditch the Firebox with this option, but...as I was typing this it occurred to me that I could just go look this up at Mackie's website. Still, I like to have insight from real people!

3) Thanks for the mic recommendations. There are so many and it's hard to tell which will sound "good" (and what does good mean anyway?). If anyone else reading this has any mic recommendations off the top of their head, please post them!

I'll answer best I can by number.
1) I'd hang for a few months until you move into a new place. Just putting foam up and making the room very dead won't really help much either. But basically, I'd try to deaden the space behind your monitors and ensure you don't have any odd sidewall reflections (flutter echo...etc). Lastly, you'd want to control the bass using bass traps if needed. So, you don't need to go hog wild...just treat it a bit.

2) Regarding interfaces and mixers, I run either a console or preamps in between my mics and my converters. Your firebox is a firewire converter system with 2 inputs I believe, correct? For converters I use either a MOTU 896 or MOTU 2408/ADAT HD24XR rig. Of my two rigs, only the 896 has preamps in it. I need external pres to feed the 2408/HD24 rig.

3)Good is subjective and varies by application. It really depends on your taste. I have a variety of mics in my setup so that I can be as flexible as possible. In general, a good mic will handle higher SPL and reproduce the source material accurately. Many name brand mics will do this well...and to various degrees.

Use the net to your advantage...read all you can. There are a lot of resources out there.

[adcameron]

So back to the mixer thing; in this case my theoretical chain would go something like:

Mics > Mackie 8-bus console > Converters (like MOTU 896) > Laptop with Cubase/ProTools/whatever?

The Mackie has the pres and then the signal must be converted, and the converter has a way of communicating with the computer so the 8 inputs in the Mackie can be selected in my DAW, am I right?

I used to have a decent knowledge of signal flow but my college courses have greedily taken over my brain lately.

[Fieldstone]

That's all correct.

You've laid out pretty much my basic signal chain. The 8bus has 24 direct outs and 8 bus outputs in addition to stereo outs.

[Seeker of Rock]

I use a Mackie 24.8 as my main console into an HD24 and both do a fine job, so +1 on the Mackie 8 bus series (16, 24, and 32 channel versions were made). Very reasonable prices you can get these for now.

Treatment...You probably dont want anything too permanent. Auralex is decent but can be a little pricey depending on the amount you need. You can buy 2" rigid fiberglass insulation in 2'x4' sizes with six to a pack, then go to a local Wal-mart to get some cheap fabric and wrap them in it. I used this to make my clouds, and used T-pins to attach the fabric. Use longer T-pins to "tack" them to the wall for now, and listen to all of those distorting reflections you are getting sound like a clear, naturally-echoeing room. Search for Owens Corning 703 and you'll find places to buy it.

My best friend lives in Austin now, btw. He loves it there.

[Fieldstone]

Yup. I've got 703 in my place. Bought some on ebay for about $70...6, 2inch panels. I got some 2x4 masonite to back them and wrapped them in a dyed suede fabric I got from a fabric store. Stapled the backs....

I then hung them using 1x2s so they are an inch of the wall in the control room. Much cheaper than Auralex.

[adcameron]

Ok, so this is a REALLY stupid question, but I just want to clarify because I am going to consider making this an option and I want to make sure I understand it completely.

The 8-bus has 24 direct outs, all 24 of which will plug into the back of the converter? And then how does the converter connect into the computer and somehow work with Cubase or ProTools? I'm just sick of trying to divine this stuff by looking at system specs and it's not like I can just ask my roommates about this stuff; I just need it explained by people who were once where I was but now get it.

Also that Mackie 8-bus is a beast! Does anyone use anything smaller but just as good? Also, if anyone doesn't mind throwing some examples of what you use the buses for (just a little poll; surprisingly I actually know what a bus is), that is in your own studios at home/work/etc. Thanks!

[Fieldstone]

See below in bold.

Originally Posted by adcameron

Ok, so this is a REALLY stupid question, but I just want to clarify because I am going to consider making this an option and I want to make sure I understand it completely.

The 8-bus has 24 direct outs Yes, all 24 of which will plug into the back of the converter? Depends on your converter. And then how does the converter connect into the computer and somehow work with Cubase or ProTools? not protools...pt doesn't allow 3rd party hardware. I'm just sick of trying to divine this stuff by looking at system specs and it's not like I can just ask my roommates about this stuff; I just need it explained by people who were once where I was but now get it.

Also that Mackie 8-bus is a beast! Does anyone use anything smaller but just as good? Also, if anyone doesn't mind throwing some examples of what you use the buses for mainly for mixing large mixes, to allow control over groups...sometimes for tracking. (just a little poll; surprisingly I actually know what a bus is), that is in your own studios at home/work/etc. Thanks!

[drummerboy1533]

Spend a few years reading EVERY Gearslut post. Then choose and purchase your studio gear. Buy once-cry once!