Please Help Me With My Mixerless Presonus Studio

[alvagoldbook]

I've been working on a tiny little ghetto set up for a while (nothing more than a Lexicon Omega, a few mics, and Cubase LE) and I want to move up in the world. I'm trying to stay within 10k.

So I wanna build a PreSonus based home studio. I know what Mics I plan to get. I know I'm gonna get a Mac Pro, and probably get Cubase 4 software. I'd go with Pro Tools, but from what little I know, Pro Tools isn't VST compatable. I need recommendations on software.

But here's where I'm really need help. All the outboard gear. Compressors, Pre-amps, Processors, etc. I don't know much about them. I figure I'll need a good vocal preamp, something for pitch correction, and basically stuff to record a full live drum kit. So I need an education on this.

But what baffles me the most is how to plug all this stuff together. How do you hook up monitors to a Presonus system? How do you control their volume? How do you work a talk back mic into this system? How do you hook up a preamp, compressor, and processor into all this jazz? Is a PreSonus central station necessary? How does a patchbay work with all this? Is it possible to mix in the box and send the mix to an out of box tube compressor in mastering?

Basically, some idea of a hook up diagram would be SUCH a big help. I hope this isn't too ******** for you guys, I just need some help with some basics here.

[Ibvee]

I doubt it is a good idea to spend 10K when you don't even know how to hook it up.
Unless you're sure that you'll earn the money back, I wouldn't do it if I were you.

But to help you out.
What do you mean with presonus based studio? What piece of presonus do you mean?

You can control the volume of your monitors from your computer with the software, be it the software of your audio interface, or with your DAW. However this is not an ideal situation, because you wouldn't be using your full 24-bit in the converters. This is where something like the central station comes in. It has an analog (and even passive, which is supposed to not change anything except for the volume) volume control, which doesn't make you lose any bits when converting.

Hooking up outboard to a presonus interface, entirely depends on which specific interface, and which connections it has. However, I would advice that you don't buy any of that yet, but first get some more knowledge and experience. Buy a microphone, and use (if available) the preamps on your interface. If you need processing, use plugins, and find out what you like. As you go and learn, you'll find out which sort of outboard gear you need first and most. Try reading here, and elsewhere on the internet, about the theory of recording, and how things work, and should be connected.

A batchbay can be very handy for making connections when a lot of outboard gear is involved, but this will be very complicated if you don't even now how to connect things without a patchbay.

Yes, it is possible to mix in the box, and use an outboard tube compressor with mastering. But unless you really now what you're doing, and you've got some badass tube compressor (think $2000 and up) you'd better leave it to a proffesional mastering engineer, and worry about making good recordings and mixes yourself.

Furthermore, drums are all but an easy thing to record. Try to find somebody with experience in your neighbourhood, and learn from him, before spending a lot of money.

Protools doesn't support VST plugins.
Unless you have a personal preference for Protools, or you have to exchange sessions with people using Protools, there's no reason to get Protools. However, if you're into electronic music, I would do the contrary, go with Logic (on mac) or cubase.

I'd really advice not to buy anything except for a good interface with software, monitors and 1 or 2 proper microphones. When you buy everything at once right away, you have no idea what you're actually buying. So once you've actually learned how to use it, and what it sounds like etc. you'll regret buying half of it, and sell it, and lose quite some money in the end.

I hope this helps

[alvagoldbook]

I do have a moderate amount of experience with recording. I've done a few demo quality albums. I simply want to move up to higher quality and better results. I don't plan to make a profit at this, I just want to be able to record myself, and be able to record others. I just don't want to spend a ton of money on an analog lay out. I'd rather stay in the semi portable digital domain. The problem is that most of my pro studio experience was over 10 years ago using all analog stuff. When it comes to digital, it's just a lack of experience that I'm missing.

I've been thinking of getting one of those PreSonus FireStudios and working my way up from there, but I don't know if they have monitor hook ups and what not.

[bosonhavoc]

check out this site
Tweak's Guide to the Home and Project Studio

search everything you want on gearslutz using the search engine
if that fails ask... this site rules

and do not buy everything you want at one time.
get the core basics learn and expand

thats my 2 dollars worth (inflation)

[donsolo]

+1 on the ramp up.

First step, good acoustic treatment and monitors, then a good vocal mic and preamp, then switch over to FW interface...THEN upgrade to full Cubase if you're comfortable with that workflow.

Then, add mics/pres/comps to taste.

Why the hell do you want to be portable anyway? I maintain a portable rig and a full rig, much better that way, this way, you can optimize both.

[warhead]

alvagoldbook (if that is your REAL NAME )

It's so cheap to get into a full on decent home studio (thanks to companies like Presonus for instance) that I don't think it's a bad idea to start with something decent. The Firestudio overall has been a successful product, and with learned skills there is no reason why you cannot make a fine recording with them. However, it does sound like you're climbing up the first couple of rungs of the recording ladder so I would caution you: DON'T BE MISLEAD OR TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. Between relying on recording forums from advice (you don't know who's giving it, and sometimes it's other newbies just repeating what they read on another post to sound like they know something) and this troubled economy (make sure somebody isn't "upselling" you on anything) it's the perfect recipe for getting screwed or possibly spending the entire $10k when you could have spent $6k or so.

I'd like to ask a few questions if you don't mind.

A) What mics do you currently own? You might have some gems.

B) What is the maximum # of tracks you need to record AT THE SAME TIME? Expandability may be an issue.

C) Do you already own monitors, etc? You don't mention them.

D) Do you plan on putting everything inside of a single rack you can carry with you? I've worked with rigs like this in the past and it can be very cool to be able to pick up and go record elsewhere.

War

PS: My comments about BAD forum advice aren't related to the advice you've received in this thread thus far, so present company excluded!!!

[laboitenoire]

Well, you mentioned PreSonus, so that automatically rules out Pro Tools. Cubase is nice, but whenever I've tried it just seemed... clunky, I suppose. Logic's not too bad, but I love Sonar.

[Ibvee]

It wasn't exactly clear that you already have some serious recording experience from your first post, so please ignore if I treated you like some sort of noob, if you are not.

Anyways, I'd hate to see people buy expensive stuff, and regretting it only a few months later.

[alvagoldbook]

Thanks everyone. I suppose my biggest problem is that I WANT ALL THESE GOODIES NOW. I guess that makes me a nympho slut. And I suppose I should have more patience with it, especially considering the price tag. I really appreciate everyone's advice. I think the best advice I've ever gotten on this topic is right here, and that's "wait! cool your head! put the studio together piece by piece."

Here's more of the back story. My wife and I are purchasing our first home, and we've been living in a cramped and miserable basement for quite some time. But luckily for us (and no one else apparently), the housing market fell, and now we're able to afford a 4 bedroom single family home. We haven't begun moving in yet, but since it's just going to be us, and with no kids to worry about, we'll have lots of room for us both to play. She's an avid reader, so she's getting a library. I'm a musician, so I'm getting a functional recording studio.

But since I haven't moved in yet, I'm not entirely sure of the acoustic properties of the room yet. All I know is that it's standard height ceilings, which I'll have to deal with for the time being. That's part of the reason why mobility sounds like it might be a good option, for remote drum recording purposes, at least until I can figure out a way to build an addition onto the house to work as a drum room with 16 feet high ceilings....but the good thing beyond the ceiling height is that the room should be plenty big enough for all the gear, and then some.

When it comes to getting the stuff I'll need, I'm going to try to save every penny. In this economy Ebay is a godsend.

Warhead, currently I have a uber ghetto set up. It's really depressing. I literally have no room for anything better until the move. It consists of a Lexicon Omega, Cubase LE software, My old "I think I can" PC, a Studio Projects VTB-1 (which judging from the noise I've been getting, needs a new preamp tube) a Behringer Composer Pro-XL that I regret buying, a Lexicon MPX 100, and a really lousy DOD graphic EQ. The good news is that the Lexicon and the DOD were free. For monitors I'm using a 2.1 Logitech laptop system. Yeh, I know. Like I said, I got no room for anything else for the time being. Mics ain't nothing special. Nothing more than a Beta 52, a few SM57s, a Sennheiser e609, and an AKG perception P.O.S. In short, no gems here, just a few standards, and an AKG disappointment.

Ibvee, no offense taken. I'm not exactly a noob, but I'm not exactly experienced either. I've done live sound for about 10 years. Done an album or two in a real studio with my band. The albums I've done on my own are my solo projects, and a few friends that no one's ever heard of, and I wouldn't call any of that work any good. Some of it, looking back, is downright scary. Oh well, live and learn. Given the junk I'm using, I'm getting significantly better results with each new project. But to get any better at this, I need better junk. I suppose you could say I've been doing this for 15 years, but that would count about 10 years of screwing with those Tascam cassette 4 tracks.

Speaking of better junk, does anyone have any experience with those highly expensive Universal Audio and Avalon mic pre's? Are they worth the cash? Anyone have an opinion on some of the pre's ART is putting out?

[alvagoldbook]

Originally Posted by laboitenoire

Well, you mentioned PreSonus, so that automatically rules out Pro Tools. Cubase is nice, but whenever I've tried it just seemed... clunky, I suppose. Logic's not too bad, but I love Sonar.

thanks. that's clears that up. Pro Tools is not looking like an option at this point. I've gotten used to working in the Cubase LE environment, so mostly I'm leaning towards Cubase 4 at the moment. Although, I'm thinking of getting a Mac Pro. I wonder if there's any compatability issues with Macs, Cubase, and VSTs software. I've been thinking about going the Logic or Sonar route, but I've read elsewhere that it can be hard to learn. I've never worked on anything but Cubase LE, so I have no clue about other software. Anyone have any thoughts on Steinberg Nuendo 4?

[warhead]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

Mics ain't nothing special. Nothing more than a Beta 52, a few SM57s, a Sennheiser e609, and an AKG perception P.O.S. In short, no gems here, just a few standards, and an AKG disappointment.

Well, the Beta 52 is fine for kick and bass cabs, the SM57 is a staple to have around and you could use on drums, cabs and other sources, and the e609 could come in handy on certain bright cabinets etc. The AKG could maybe at least be a room mic on drums etc...?

War

[alvagoldbook]

Originally Posted by warhead

Well, the Beta 52 is fine for kick and bass cabs, the SM57 is a staple to have around and you could use on drums, cabs and other sources, and the e609 could come in handy on certain bright cabinets etc. The AKG could maybe at least be a room mic on drums etc...?

War

Oh sure, they're handy for a bunch of things, but the AKG Perception isn't up to the job on vocals in my experience. I suppose it doesn't help that I'm the world's lousiest singer. I'm just short of a heavy hitting vocal mic.

[laboitenoire]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

thanks. that's clears that up. Pro Tools is not looking like an option at this point. I've gotten used to working in the Cubase LE environment, so mostly I'm leaning towards Cubase 4 at the moment. Although, I'm thinking of getting a Mac Pro. I wonder if there's any compatability issues with Macs, Cubase, and VSTs software. I've been thinking about going the Logic or Sonar route, but I've read elsewhere that it can be hard to learn. I've never worked on anything but Cubase LE, so I have no clue about other software. Anyone have any thoughts on Steinberg Nuendo 4?

Really? I found Sonar very easy to use. Then again, with DAW software, your mileage might vary.