Help Me Build My Decent Low End Studio

[alvagoldbook]

This might have been covered before, and I apologize if it has, but I've been doing the very low tech thing for a while. Nothing more complicated than a few mics, a lexicon omega, and Cubase LE. Now I'm ready to move up in the world.

First off, I will have a room to work in, but I don't know yet how great it will sound. It's big, but the ceilings are standard house height.

Second, I will be recording everything from punk rock to classic rock, to some acoustic folky stuff.

Third, I want to be able to record up to 16 tracks at once. The idea here is to be able to mic a drum set as professionally as I can with my budget. This means mic'ing everything, and having extra left over to mic the room.

Forth, I need advice on what mics to use, but I'm fairly knowledgeable on that already. What I'm clueless about is mic pres, compression units, and just about everything on external gear. I need something that will sound good, preferably nice and warm analog sounding and the ability to get 16 tracks into a computer. Perhaps this can be done easily enough with 12.

I expect to be buying a new computer and use it exclusively for recording. Beyond that, and microphones, I don't know what I should get. I expect I'll need a mixer, but I need some idea of what kinds of mixers.

I using a decent pair of 2.1 computer monitors as my studio monitors right now. Hey, Logitech makes decent stuff. I'll need something better, but I don't know where to begin.

I have a couple 57s, a Beta 52, a sennheiser e609, and a AKG Perception condenser mic. I have a Lexicon MPX 100, a DOD 431 series 2 graphic EQ (both of which I don't really use), a Behringer composer pro-xl (which I don't like very much), and a Studio Projects VTB1 (which needs a new tube, but sounds pretty neat going direct on bass)

I'm trying to budget this for 10k at the most, less would be preferable.

[appleburger]

if you're looking at buying a new computer i would look nowhere else but an imac. still very portable but fully functional and its just less wires to hide. once you have the mac i would strongly suggest taking a look at logic. there are tons of reviews out there and there are a lot of people that are switching to it from PT. to me one of the best things about logic is that you're not obligated and limited on what hardware interface you can use. i just ditched my 003/PT setup for a logic/apogee ensemble rig and i'm BLOWN away at the differences in my recordings. the pres and converters aren't even in the same ballpark between the interfaces and the software is must more intuitive. the plug ins and virtual instruments in logic are also far superior. another good thing about the ensemble is that you can lightpipe in more channels. so say you got an 8 channel mic pre that has optical out, you can now have your 16 inputs.

my personal setup is a 24" 2.8ghz imac, ensemble, presonus digimax, and logic 8. i also have some standalone pres and compressors, but that setup would get you started and on the right track for what it sounds like you're wanting to do.

of course you could always go with the 003/PTLE setup. but having owned both rigs i can undoubtedly say you will be much happier going the other route.

[Ubu4him]

dont mic everything on the drums.... youll waste your money on abdunace instead of quality.... 2 OH, snare, and 2 kick mics is what i love... sounds good ... sounds natural ...

monitors... spend at least 1000 on the Adam 5's ... highly recommended ....

MAC ALL THE WAY

[Molasses]

Appleburger!!!

I am trying to figure out what to do as well...Do you really feel THAT strongly abut the differences? Because I also get a few hundred dollars trade in value for my 001 (I know - ancient) against the 003, I was tempted to go that way...Also, I am lightning fast in protools, but not logic....how long would it take to get going? I can't quite bring myself to switch to Logic...

Also, in terms of computers, are there any towers you'd suggest? I already have 2 flat screen monitors, so I was hoping I could save there...Is laptop an option in your opinion? Obviously I'm talking Mac here...

I'd appreciate your continued advice...

[appleburger]

i had the same reservations about logic you do now. but believe me, its cake to figure out and the learning curve is well worth what you'll be getting in return. you'll find many of the things you do in PT are actually much easier in logic. it just takes a little bit to learn. i've found that things weren't easier in PT, just more familiar. now that i have the hang of logic, as you can tell, i am a firm believer. i got $200 for my 001 on ebay, iirc thats about what digi offers as a trade-in.

as far as the computer, a mac pro is probably overkill and out of budget for most. but the past few generations of the macbook pros and even macbooks are powerful enough to run a reasonable session efficiently. or even an older g5 tower would get the job done without any problems.

[merrybmb]

Here's my 2 bits....

Keep the mics, and the VTB1. Sell the rest.

Get yourself a Mac Mini (like 1.8 Ghz)
and an Maudio fast track (w 8 ins)
and Pro Tools M powered
then do drums w/ 8 mics.....
Kick, Sn Top, Sn Bottom, Rack, Floor, 2x OH, room.
and buy Cascade Fathead ribbons for OH...$350
AKG (that you own) for room
52 for kick
57 for Sn top n bottom
buy some 421's for the toms....and guitar cabs!
A Shure SM7 to have around....
1 or more VTB1's...(love 'em)
2 FMR RNC's....
a few FMR RNP pre's
a Distressor....
and a good Channel Strip....(manley, etc.)

and...

U R ready to make a record!...(maybe a hot vocal mic??)
(as long as you can do it a piece at a time, if not, the band sucks!)
You'll be way under budget! And have a kick ass room to sell to more clients.....

[donsolo]

If you go with a Digi 003 and a Behringer ADA8000, you've got 16 channels, that's not the issue at all.

But Honestly, if you don't know jack about the rest of it, more channels aren't going to help you at all.

I'd get the 003 so you have 8 mics to work with on drums.

I'd buy a used Dual G5 mac (don't get the liquid cooled, they break) and max out the ram.

If you don't know the difference between the built in pres on your 003 and a say, RNP, you don't need them yet.

Also keep in mind you're going to need at least a 4 headphone setup, 4 sets of cans, extension cables. Skip the more-me boxes. just do your own headphone mixes.

You need protools, I don't even use protools but your needs call for it. Logic adds a lot of great midi functionality at the cost of movability. If you get a band that wants to mix elsewhere, you need PT. No options there.


"I using a decent pair of 2.1 computer monitors as my studio monitors right now. Hey, Logitech makes decent stuff. I'll need something better, but I don't know where to begin."

They're not decent. No they don't. Start with a decent set of KRK V8s, HR824s, HS50M or whatever those Yamas are etc.

Stands, acoustic treatment, cabling, all are very important and all cost money.

[TeamBulimic]

-NOS Macbook Pro .You can get a good deal on them since the new ones came out, shop around.
-Apogee Ensemble running into logic.
-Mackie Onyx pre to get you 8 more mic inputs via optical or something else. That's the only thing I can think of off hand.
-a couple MD 421
-Bock Audio 195 is a great mic for many applications.
-Maybe an API Pre or a Pacifica
-I'd check out the Adam A7's or the Focal CMS 50's if you find some place that has them.
Keep most of the mics you have

If you find some of this stuff used you're definitely under budget with some room to pick up some more mics, plug ins or signal processors or something. That setup is close to what I'm working on getting.

[Washington]

What to buy is a pretty subjective matter, the more you hear anything chimed as the holy grail, the less it may be (not that anybody here has claimed to have the gospel truth, though)... Anyway, perhaps HOW to buy could be considered as an important factor as well. I'm on Logic + Lynx Aurora + Genelec 1037 and very happy with it, but that's not the point. Instead, I'd pipe in my 2c with a shortlist of what I believe to be a sensible order of priority of s in the money you'll spend, whatever the amount.

1. Room acoustics
2. Monitors
3. AD/DA
4. Preamps
5. Mics
6. DAW

Logic or Reaper would save you some $ upfront if you learn the chops with the plugins that come included. PT has quite a good starter's suite too.

Now, if I may add this, the best thing you could invest at this point is TIME (and a lot of it) in researching the net for information about acoustics, and way beyond "how to build DIY bass traps". Not only to setup your space, but for every step in the recording and mixing process. It's about sound, right? Then learn what sound is. There's soooo much knowledge available on the net for free, from people whose generosity in sharing what took them years to learn still startles me everday. True, it may (it will!) postpone your effective start by at least a few month, that is if you study hard. But however frustrating it may seem from here, getting to know the physics behind sound will be a treasure for you to have for the rest of your life, and you'll never stop piling knowledge. Besides, it'll let you know soon enough why full-miking a drumkit on 16 tracks could be a not-so-good idea. Particularly if you don't have tons of money to invest in your equipment... you still can make the hell of a great job without high end gear, but it takes some sweat to maximise what you have.

I only say that because I did it, and I just did step in this thread it to try to pass it along. But I understand you may very well be perfectly aware of all that aready.

Best of luck!

[jvkeboxHERO]

anyone have any suggestions for PCs?

unlike the TS, who has 10k to spend, i do not. i am looking to spend no more than $1100 on a computer INCLUDING flatscreen monitor. def have t go PC here.

This is a busget studio in my basement, which will be used just to record my own projects, local kids projects, and to fool around and experiement with different sounds for my own enjoyment. this is not going to be a professional set up mind you. I am just a guitar player. but just like AE, so I want to do it for fun.

ANYWAY I have a PC right now, I cant tel lyou how fast it is bc I got it for free, but its got Vista so it cant be that old, but its getten taken away from me, so I need to get a new one. whatever.

Right now im usuing a PC with Vista,
Cubase LE,
a Tascam US-144,
M-Audio Studiophile DX4 Monitors (i think),
couple sets of cans (bout $50 each),
1 - SM57
1- Unidyne
1- Aduix O2
1- Sennheiser e609

My room is about 13'L x 9'W, and i have an extended (2') closet in the middle of the room where my desk is.

I was thinking of going with a couple AT2020s, AKG D112, 2-ART MP Studio Tube Preamps, Behringer UB-1222FX-Pro (or some kind of small 8-ch mixer), and minor, inexpensive acoustic treatments. I already have my mattress against the wall and pillows and blankets in the corners, but thats not exactly pretty looking or sounding.

If anyone can suggest any.......suggestions.......to me for what I am doing thatd be great. Im just looking for slightly better than average at low-cost. Feel free to make ANY suggestions.

p.s. I want to stay CHEAP seeing as I am primarily a guitar player and I would rather blow money on expensive amps and guitars and shit then recording gear, bc I cant take my studio on stage with me, but I still like it recording.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by jvkeboxHERO

anyone have any suggestions for PCs?

unlike the TS, who has 10k to spend, i do not. i am looking to spend no more than $1100 on a computer INCLUDING flatscreen monitor. def have t go PC here.

This is a busget studio in my basement, which will be used just to record my own projects, local kids projects, and to fool around and experiement with different sounds for my own enjoyment. this is not going to be a professional set up mind you. I am just a guitar player. but just like AE, so I want to do it for fun.

ANYWAY I have a PC right now, I cant tel lyou how fast it is bc I got it for free, but its got Vista so it cant be that old, but its getten taken away from me, so I need to get a new one. whatever.

Right now im usuing a PC with Vista,
Cubase LE,
a Tascam US-144,
M-Audio Studiophile DX4 Monitors (i think),
couple sets of cans (bout $50 each),
1 - SM57
1- Unidyne
1- Aduix O2
1- Sennheiser e609

My room is about 13'L x 9'W, and i have an extended (2') closet in the middle of the room where my desk is.

I was thinking of going with a couple AT2020s, AKG D112, 2-ART MP Studio Tube Preamps, Behringer UB-1222FX-Pro (or some kind of small 8-ch mixer), and minor, inexpensive acoustic treatments. I already have my mattress against the wall and pillows and blankets in the corners, but thats not exactly pretty looking or sounding.

If anyone can suggest any.......suggestions.......to me for what I am doing thatd be great. Im just looking for slightly better than average at low-cost. Feel free to make ANY suggestions.

p.s. I want to stay CHEAP seeing as I am primarily a guitar player and I would rather blow money on expensive amps and guitars and shit then recording gear, bc I cant take my studio on stage with me, but I still like it recording.

I would always suggest that you build a computer, you can customize it to your needs and it will be extremely inexpensive. The Macs are not cost effective and only for the true Apple believers. In PC we are talking $500-$700 for a good quadcore build with 2 hard drives. Then I would DOWNGRADE to XP Pro, much better for a DAW app. I would upgrade Cubase to the highest version you can afford, or get a used copy of SX3. It would be the best fit since it is easily as capable as PTHD and you already know it. That is how I started my studio and have been adding and upgrading for the last 4 years. I bought lots of great stuff on ebay and some new stuff from dealers. Have lots more suggestions if you want them.

[jvkeboxHERO]

Beyersound thanks a LOT!!

im prob gonan build my own with my friend scott once i get the money. or buy one from like, best buy for $500 or soething and then upgrade what i need to.

and i believe i DEFINITELY have to go cubase sx3, bc i was thinking about it, and if i get a new computer, the cubase LE i have wont run on the new computer bc I already used my stupid key-code thing. i already tried ProTools LE 4.73(i think) and it didnt work on my old laptop after digidesign said it should. so i think im a Cubase guy from now on.

i added you on myspace (my names Bobby but my headline is Pepe Sylvia) and wrote you a pretty lengthy message for no real reason lol. the artists you have worked with is VERY impressive, specifically the 80s hair bands (my not-so-guilty pleasure).