Golden Age Project Pre73

[RusRant]

Originally Posted by Ihsahn1981

Youre not adjusting for the slut-factor!

True, so true.

[Jeffguitar]

It is API's acoustic samples we are discussing. The fully modded Gap is easily on par, over good speakers, good phones, al day long and twice on Sunday, if you have good ears that is.

Originally Posted by crille

Hahaha, it's okay if you think so, but the fact is that the Neve 1073 sounds a little better.
What?? No one else here think that this modded preamp sounds exactly as good as the Neve. Or is there more people here with bad ears? :O
Listen to API:s acoustic guitar samples, you'll here a big difference there if you have good listening monitors/phones.

I can understand if you like the modded GAP because of its "sound", it's a matter of taste. But the Neve gives more details.

It would have been amazing if it did sound exactly as good as the Neve, but sorry, it does not, but it's almost there.
I don't care what the stuff cost, I use my ears. I have blindtested and compared the Neve vs GAP.

[KAB]

I guess you guys are gonna have to whip 'em out and start measuring.

Hey! tutt Ears, dudes, ears!

[Heartfelt]

where are API's samples?

[crille]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

where are API's samples?

Page 11: Golden Age Project Pre73

Originally Posted by API

Hey guys!!
What do you say if we chill out a bit to some sound samples??

Ok, here we go.
These are in no way scientific proof of anything, they are my honest way, and to the best of my ability (at least at the moment with very limited time), to show the differences between two modded pres, one unmodded and an original 1073.
Since they were all played through the same microphone (a very nice, vintage Telefunken U47 by the way) and not at the same time (ie. I changed pre between takes) it is impossible to get the timbre and levels exactly right.
You get the basic idea but take them with a slight pinch of salt and do not get to anal on me.
Especially the drum_4 sample was a little lower in volume so please consider that.

The chain on the guitar sample is a vintage Telefunken U47 aimed at the 12th fret of a 70´s Yamaha acoustic at about 4 feet away, no eq or compressors.

The drum sample is the same U47 aimed over the shoulder of the drummer at the snare from the floor tom side.
Again no eq or compressors.

So again just to clearify:
There is one unmodded PRE73
One that I have changed only the output transformer on
One that have both mic in and output changed
One original vintage 1073 (totally stock with original caps!).

Will be fun to see what you think is what!

Also I have experimented with the added filters and done what I think was best on the 2 modded ones.
And of course Guitar 1 is the same pre as Drum 1 and so on.

API

Guitar 1
Guitar 2
Guitar 3
Guitar 4

Drums 1
Drums 2
Drums 3
Drums 4

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by crille

Page 11: Golden Age Project Pre73

Okay, I'm the tin-eared mook who can't hear one lick of difference on War's test (except for bass) but these are difference. ALL takes sound good though

[Heartfelt]

OK, I took API's test. It was hard for me for two reasons. I have never used a Neve
and I am more accustomed to listening with vocals. That's is when I hear nasties best.

I did NOT cheat and I did not win either. I picked the full modded pre as the Neve.
'twas fun.

[Jeffguitar]

Not surprising. A few said they actually preferred the modded Gap. I would put the Neve at 10, the Modded at 9.5 It's right there on an even par where some like the Gap better, some say just below but same class. Anything else sounds like sour grapes to me, because it's pretty clear that number 2 and number 4 are right there together within the margin of error.

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

OK, I took API's test. It was hard for me for two reasons. I have never used a Neve
and I am more accustomed to listening with vocals. That's is when I hear nasties best.

I did NOT cheat and I did not win either. I picked the full modded pre as the Neve.
'twas fun.

[superiorsound]

So I just got a pair..........and yup one was broken its okay..... its okay because The one that worked blew me out of the water on voxs. I might have to add 2 more to the collection. I notice the more gain you give it the more color it adds so if your looking for a clean sound be easy on the output however if you looking for a more colored sound lower the input and crank the output. I really like what I am hearing thus far. As everything else this is not for everything but I think I found my go to male VOX hiphop pre. 300 dollars gets you a solid thick vocal. OHH BTW I am using a u87.
I have never heard an original 1073 however I can say this compaired to my 737sp, ADL 600, CL 7602s, API 512c's and other pres this holds it own. For 300 bucks!! I hope it doesnt die in a week. Also big thanks to that man WARHEAD! Hes so good to do business with....Never leaves ya hanging! Thanks WAR!

Frank

Frank

[videoracer]

You know, I think what people aren't realizing is that the age of needing overpriced gear to create GREAT-SOUNDING music is LONG over. There was a time long ago where the likes of Neve, Neumann, AKG, etc. were truly heads and shoulders above the rest.

But not anymore. This is not merely because of the flood of clones, or even Chinese imports (witness the US-made Rane MS-1b) but more importantly because manufacturing technology has reached a point where mass-produced electronics can deliver exceptional audio quality for peanuts.

Franky, you don't need any of "God's own recording gear" anymore to make great music. In this day and age all you have to do really is concentrate on your music. Of course, this has always been the ruling factor, but nowadays it is the ONLY criteria to consider in making great-sounding music.

The Neve is dead, long live the Neve...

[crille]

Originally Posted by superiorsound

So I just got a pair..........and yup one was broken its okay.....

Wtf?? You bought one new and it was broken as stock?

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by superiorsound

I notice the more gain you give it the more color it adds so if your looking for a clean sound be easy on the output however if you looking for a more colored sound lower the input and crank the output. I really like what I am hearing thus far.
Frank

...you need to understand the "Neve-style gain structure" if you want to go from "clean" to "colored"...what you described is exactly backwards...

...if you want quiet clean gain and the smallest amount of coloration, always set the OUTPUT level potentiometer on maximum (fully clockwise) and increase the mic gain with the stepped MIC/ LINE gain switch (anti clockwise) until you have a only a couple of green leds flashing...

...however if you want to hear the color character of the "vintage" design, turn the OUTPUT pot counterclock-wise and increase the INPUT gain with the MIC/LINE gain pot. This will drive the input gain stage(s) harder and provoke more character from them...

..."color" is actually generated by cranking the input stage, and backing off the output...this is the same gain structure used by the original vintage Neve 1290 (1073 w/o EQ section) preamps...

[crille]

Originally Posted by MATTI

All are sold for now here in Europe... if that tells anything

Matti

No? There are plenty of them in Sweden.

[Matti]

Good to know, Golden Age Music themselves say sold out and one popular seller in the UK same. My bad to claim more

Matti

[88fingerz]

Originally Posted by MATTI

My bad

Don't you mean your "mistake"?

What's all this my "bad" going around? Can anyone speak the english language anymore?

[Matti]

My mistake to write so, I bet not every New Yorker speak Finnish fluently either?


Matti

[warhead]

Originally Posted by RusRant

War,
again thanks for these clips. I will soon be placing an order for at least one of the
PRE73's. The clips sold me. The question is, modded or unmodded. Not sure yet.

Well, whatever you decide I keep stock and modded units on the shelf ready to ship.

War

[videoracer]

>>Can anyone speak the english language anymore? <<

No.

[superiorsound]

Originally Posted by kidvybes

...you need to understand the "Neve-style gain structure" if you want to go from "clean" to "colored"...what you described is exactly backwards...

...if you want quiet clean gain and the smallest amount of coloration, always set the OUTPUT level potentiometer on maximum (fully clockwise) and increase the mic gain with the stepped MIC/ LINE gain switch (anti clockwise) until you have a only a couple of green leds flashing...

...however if you want to hear the color character of the "vintage" design, turn the OUTPUT pot counterclock-wise and increase the INPUT gain with the MIC/LINE gain pot. This will drive the input gain stage(s) harder and provoke more character from them...

..."color" is actually generated by cranking the input stage, and backing off the output...this is the same gain structure used by the original vintage Neve 1290 (1073 w/o EQ section) preamps...

Your right I was pretty tired when posting that. it adds the tonal characteristics on the input gain.

[superiorsound]

Originally Posted by crille

Wtf?? You bought one new and it was broken as stock?

Listen man it happens but heres the true test... I notified the company and War and they shipped me out a new one same day!!! I recently bought a manley mu and it arrived with problems called htem up and they took care of it. Same with my ADL 600 I just have horrible luck ha ha. As any studio owner will tell you "shit happens". These units give you a 1000 dollar sound. They dont sound like the chameleon labs units either and I have both. I have a hip hop session today Ill get some samples up shortly. I am really happy with the build quality of these things and I notice the noise floor is pretty low which is uncommon for cheap gear. I am considering buying a fully modded unit just to have. For 300 bucks its a no brainer. The unit sounds good compairing it to neve or not it sounds good.

Frank

[JPeters86]

Originally Posted by kidvybes

...you need to understand the "Neve-style gain structure" if you want to go from "clean" to "colored"...what you described is exactly backwards...

...if you want quiet clean gain and the smallest amount of coloration, always set the OUTPUT level potentiometer on maximum (fully clockwise) and increase the mic gain with the stepped MIC/ LINE gain switch (anti clockwise) until you have a only a couple of green leds flashing...

...however if you want to hear the color character of the "vintage" design, turn the OUTPUT pot counterclock-wise and increase the INPUT gain with the MIC/LINE gain pot. This will drive the input gain stage(s) harder and provoke more character from them...

..."color" is actually generated by cranking the input stage, and backing off the output...this is the same gain structure used by the original vintage Neve 1290 (1073 w/o EQ section) preamps...

You can also clip the output stage for more transformer saturation. Just make sure it doesn't enter your DAW or whatever at a too high level (use a pad for instance). This is also explained in the manual:

http://www.goldenagemusic.se/goldena...PRE-73_web.pdf

[reflixtinian]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

This Alto site is strange. If anyone has a price from them would you please post it.

- thanks!

Yes indeed

[hemmick reef]

I've had a good listen to all the samples in this thread and to be honest the differences are so small who cares which preamp is used: they all sound great.

After a bit of compression and eq the preamp, in reality, makes little difference and as posted earlier ' gone are the days when you had to buy expensive gear to get a pro sound'. If a song is well recorded and has great song writing elements these differences in preamp sound are like splitting hairs.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by hemmick reef

I've had a good listen to all the samples in this thread and to be honest the differences are so small who cares which preamp is used: they all sound great.

They are all worth beyond what you pay for them, I will agree.

Even the stock units are quite good.

This is the kind of thing where once you've tracked a bunch of stuff with it, and the mod has dealt with the somewhat congested low and low-mid response and cleared up the entire signal offering more detail and richness...then it will matter more. A single track won't tell you as much as say, 20 tracks...more defined.

But yes, they are all at least very good in my experience.

War

[API]

Originally Posted by videoracer

You know, I think what people aren't realizing is that the age of needing overpriced gear to create GREAT-SOUNDING music is LONG over. There was a time long ago where the likes of Neve, Neumann, AKG, etc. were truly heads and shoulders above the rest.

But not anymore. This is not merely because of the flood of clones, or even Chinese imports (witness the US-made Rane MS-1b) but more importantly because manufacturing technology has reached a point where mass-produced electronics can deliver exceptional audio quality for peanuts.

Franky, you don't need any of "God's own recording gear" anymore to make great music. In this day and age all you have to do really is concentrate on your music. Of course, this has always been the ruling factor, but nowadays it is the ONLY criteria to consider in making great-sounding music.

The Neve is dead, long live the Neve...

The only problem I have with this statement is that it was Neve that designed this circuit and probably spent alot of money doing so.
Then a Neve built 1073 is solid like a rock, did you ever look under the hood of one?
It is a work of art!
And that is nothing I can say about the PRE73, but as a tool it works just as good, at least for now.

So with that said, I am just waiting for another bunch of PRE73´s to mod.
When I have them I will do another test comparing a vintage Neve 1073, unmodded PRE73 and fully modded PRE73.
I will try to use live instruments, and include vocals this time, and will look into splitting the same signal to all three pres.
This is the most true test you can do I guess, I will fully admit that my last one was "flawed" with using different takes for each pre.
But I will let you know that we did, many, many takes and listened alot so I know the difference is there between the modded and unmodded PRE73 and it is huge, at least with my mod.

More to come.

API

[JPeters86]

It would be great if someone could post a recording in which the Pre73 was used, followed by a recording with a MOTU/PreSonus/whatever stock pre. I'm sorry if this is already somewhere in the thread, had a quick look but couldn't find it.

[RTR]

Originally Posted by videoracer

>>Can anyone speak the english language anymore? <<

No.

fuk no...go over to the hip hop threads.ughhh..it's like watching Maury Povich

[videoracer]

>>The only problem I have with this statement is that it was Neve that designed this circuit and probably spent alot of money doing so.<<

PA-LEEZE! That guy has made his money back a million times over. He ain't scrounging for his next meal!

My beef with all those companies is that they're living off their legacy and hyping it to the hilt. Let's be real here. Three grand for a mic? Or the Neve, for that matter? I don't think so. There was a time when these things were actually fairly normally priced, believe it or not. That's not what's going on today. Highway robbery is what we call it in the 'States.

While there are some differences in the quality of the components used in that gear, it ain't $2700 difference! These companies are a complete rip-off.

More important to realize is that the mass-produced state of the art can make gear you can pit up to that stuff. Some of it sucks for sure, but a lot of it doesn't.

Studio Projects made buffoons of many a "golden ears" fool when they first introduced their mics at NAMM and dared anyone to pick the $3000 U-87 from their $300 C3 in direct comparison recordings. Many of those "golden ears" chose the C3. THAT is smart, modern engineered mass production.

Mind you, the mics don't sound the same. No two mics sound the same. The real point SP made was the superb sonic quality their mics have.

The same goes for the Pre-73. There may be a few loose ends with the Pre-73, yet look how well a $300 box fares against it's $3000 forebear.

As much as people love to bash Behringer, look at products like the V-Verb, ULTRAMATCH PRO, etc. Great stuff, mass-produced.

The bottom line is that the age of needing overpriced gear to make GREAT-sounding music is LONG over.

And ultimately the most important ingredient in making great music has never changed, and that is the talent you're actually recording, NOT what you're recording it with.

The Neve is dead, long live the Neve...

[Matti]

Rubert Neve lives still and never retired as I understand. Owning a brand maybe a complicaded thing...

Matti

[videoracer]

My paraphrase wasn't aimed at the man. It was a joke.