Drum Micing Ideas - Bad Room, So-So Drummer

[superwack]

I know there are about 1,000,000 drum micing threads and I have read a bunch of them but have yet to find the info I am looking for so please forgive me if this exists somewhere.

Most of the more minimal drum recording/mic recommendation threads I've read contain statements like "this technique works in a good room and/or with a good drummer who can balance themselves" but what to do if one/both of those are not part of the equation?

I am recording 2 songs for a 3-piece highschool modern-ish, classic-ish (think Blink meets Aerosmith) rock band in an untreated wooden detached garage with a wooden door and concrete floors. I figure it would be a good idea to do some blanket-hanging, maybe put some plywood down (?) and would love any suggestions for dealing with the room (it's about 16' square with ceilings about 10' or so) but my main question is how to mic the kit?

The drummer is decent for his age/experience but I doubt he can be trusted to keep himself in perfect balance. He plays a 4 piece kit with a hat, ride, and 2 or 3 crashes (all nice zildjians) there will be new heads on the drums and, fortunately, I am pretty good at tuning kits so that should at least be one less headache! FYI I have done a few drum sessions in NEVE/SSL rooms that turned out pretty good but those benefited from good acoustics, drums, etc....

I've got a digi003 so there is a max of 8 inputs. Ideally I'd like to use 6 for the drums so I can track some direct bass/guitar (perhaps scratch but I'll keep my fingers crossed!) as the band is MUCH better when playing together.

MICS

1 each Shure 55, 56, 57, 58
1 x RE20
2 x MD421
1 x C451EB
2 x Apex 205 (modded by Michael Joly)
1 x Oktava 319 (also modded by MJ)
1 x M201
1 x RE10
1 x PZM
1 x AKG D1000E
1 x Marshall MXL603 (modded)
1 x Marshall MXL2001 (modded)
1 x Marshall MXL2003

PRES

2 x api 512c
2 x Neve 1272
2 x Atlas Juggernauts
1 x Groove Tubes BRICK
4 x digi003 preamps


We won't have too much time for experimenting so I'd love to grab some suggestions for where to start... some of my ideas are

a) "Traditional" (KICK RE20, SNARE SM57/M201, TOMS MD421, OH APEX 205) 512/Atlas on OHs with the opposite on K/Sn and the 1272 for toms)

b) or what about forgoing the OVERHEADS (although I've NEVER heard of this) and instead close mic the HH/RIDE (603, 451) to have more control over those and hope the cymbals bleed in to everything enough? then what pres where?

c) the "traditional" but with a MONO overhead (205, 319...) plus a MONO room mic (205, 319, PZM) to try to get a little bigger sound out of the garage)?

d) maybe a minimal setup would be the best (recorderman - never tried it - or K/Sn/OH) then what mics/pres?

Any thoughts, ideas, experiences would be very, very much appreciated.

Thanks!

[headwerkn]

Originally Posted by superwack

Bad Room, So-So Drummer

I'd be thinking "drum machine" then ;-)

Failing that, I'd be hiring an 8ch mic-pre with ADAT out (ie Presonus Digimax) to increase the usable inputs in the Digi003 to 16 then tight micing the toms and hats, over and under on snare and two mics on the kick (one up on the beater, the other in the hole) and a room mic or two for ambience.

Should give you enough separation, control and options come mix.

[superwack]

Yeah... a drum machine would be SO much easier LOL!

What's going on here is that this is where the guys practice and they want to get in to a bit of recording and are trying to slowly build up some gear for that purpose. It's their DIGI003, Brick and a few of their mics. The API and other mics are mine and the juggernauts are a friends - we are trying not to bring in too much other gear if we can avoid it as they would like to have a minimal system that they can use to produce decent results and that can be upgraded/expanded as they develop. They are obviously going to need a few more pres so I can have mine back!

My background is as an assistant/engineer at a music studio years ago but for the last few I have been almost exclusively movies/tv/post - it's been over a year since I did a simple music session and even longer before that... I'm helping them out as a family friend (and they only one they know with ANY experience!)

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Mark

[donsolo]

Seriously, don't.

I mean, if the drummer is so-so, you can work with that with a lot of mics...

If the room is crappy you can work with that with a lot of mics but the drummer has to make up for the room...

I'd rent an electronic set and use Battery or DFH or BFD.

Or take the drummer to larger studio.

It sounds like you're wishing that there's some magical "not suck" button on that 003 that's going to fix these problems, there isn't.

If the room is crappy, you don't want to record in there anyway unless you pad the f*ck out of it and make it an incredibly dry recording sound (which is hip) and at least with that you can then use a heavily mic'ed kit to fix balance issues the drummer has.

But it's sounding like the drummer's going to have more than just balance issues with the performance and an electronic kit with really good samples should fix all of this.

Or take the band to a local studio to cut drum tracks only. I mean, if there's one place you can't easily get "good enough" it's drums.

[superwack]

Thanks. Yeah, I get that the situation is not ideal - that's the point of my post - and that they could go to another studio, use a drum machine/electronic kit etc and that would, obviously, get a better result but the reason I put this in the LOW-END forum is that they are just that, low-end. No battery, electronic kits, budget for studios etc....

We/they are not expecting a miracle or hoping the drums will sound like they were done in a commercial studio, just hoping to make the best of a bad situation/minimize the issues if at all possible (maybe it isn't). I've read posts where people have found a way around things (like recording in their living room, putting a room mic in their kitchen, etc.) I was just hoping somebody had a similar experience and could point us in a direction. Like don't bother with room mics as the room sucks or tight mic everything so you can control the levels later, just use a mic on the kick and a mono overhead... whatever.

I appreciate everyones help - please keep it coming.

[Fu Schnickens]

Originally Posted by headwerkn

I'd be thinking "drum machine" then ;-)

Failing that, I'd be hiring an 8ch mic-pre with ADAT out (ie Presonus Digimax) to increase the usable inputs in the Digi003 to 16 then tight micing the toms and hats, over and under on snare and two mics on the kick (one up on the beater, the other in the hole) and a room mic or two for ambience.

Should give you enough separation, control and options come mix.

I'd go with this approach. Paying studio time for a marginal drummer doesn't make too much sense to me when you can save money and rent a Digimax. This way you can have all the mics you want on the kit, and have plenty of time to sort out room, placement, etc. A stellar drum sound from a "pro" studio isn't going to make the drummer any more capable than he is already. Besides, this method gives the band some experience in recording to use in the future, and the brutal truth may make the members realize what it takes to sound like good musicians. Use what you got, and do it to it.