Grace m101....anything better in that price?

[Raincrow]

I have been looking at pres and reading many-a-review. I know that the consensus is that it is better to save the cash and go for the $1k mark when it comes to pres, but I just can't do it right now.

I would SOOOO love to get a Great River pre, but that is going to have to wait.

I did read one review that said the m101 can be a little harsh in the mid-high's, but the rest of the things I have heard are impeccable.
Currently, this is at the top of my budget so going any more expensive is not possible.

I am going to be using the pre strictly for vocals and acoustic guitar.

Any thoughts?

thanks in advance.

[toxostoma rufum]

The True P-Solo is decent for vocals, but excellent for acoustic guitar.

If you're just doing vox and guitar, just get an ART MPA gold with a tube upgrade.

I wouldn't go for the Grace.

[hello people]

Yo...how do you do the tube upgrade?

Can anyone give me a step by step? Where do I buy the tube? How much is/ are it/ they?

thanks

[doncaparker]

A few things:

First, I own an Art MPA Gold, and I swapped out the tubes. It is great for the money, no question. For that amount of money, there has not been a real competitor for that unit. However, if you want something with plenty of clean and noise free gain, you may have to pay more and get more. When I run my MPA Gold at the upper reaches, there's more noise there than I like. Think about a RNP (Really Nice Preamp), or the new pre being sold by Black Lion Audio. Those are both in the same general price range as the MPA Gold, and both are purported by some folks to be better quality.

Second, for the OP, the Grace has a reputation for being way nicer than any of those. But, it also costs around $560 for one channel, whereas all these others I have mentioned are less than $500 for two channels. I would start by deciding whether I need two channels (I do, and I suspect you will eventually want them, too). Then, I would weigh needs versus cost. Only you can figure that one out.

Third, if you buy the MPA Gold, changing the tubes is really simple. There are places on the internet that sell tubes of all varieties. Picking the tubes you want will be the hardest part, simply because of the variety available. You are looking for two 12AX7 tubes, or other tubes in the 12A_7 family, like 12AT7. The best I can say is you should read other posts as to what other folks have put in their MPA Golds. I originally put in some new-old-stock (NOS in geekspeak) RCA 12AX7a tubes, but I recently ordered some Mullard 12AT7 tubes, because others here like those.

Fourth, once you get the tubes in the mail, it is really easy to figure out for yourself where they go inside the box. There are two metal cylinders sticking up that look like the right size for holding the tubes. You twist and push down to remove those cylinders, and that exposes the tubes. Pull the old ones out, push the new ones in, replace the cylinders, and Bob's your uncle.

Good luck.

[hello people]

How do you all hook it up to your PC (assuming that's what you do)?

I plan to keep this Presonus Firebox I have and hook the Gold into that...just bypass the Firebox preamps and not turn on it's 48V.

Is that doable?

[muziekschuur]

Then, just go from there. It's ment as a first buy mic-pre. It will last you for years.


Muziekschuur

[gearaddict]

Originally Posted by Raincrow

I have been looking at pres and reading many-a-review. I know that the consensus is that it is better to save the cash and go for the $1k mark when it comes to pres, but I just can't do it right now.

I would SOOOO love to get a Great River pre, but that is going to have to wait.

I did read one review that said the m101 can be a little harsh in the mid-high's, but the rest of the things I have heard are impeccable.
Currently, this is at the top of my budget so going any more expensive is not possible.

I am going to be using the pre strictly for vocals and acoustic guitar.

Any thoughts?

thanks in advance.

Im selling my grace for $500.00 with a free rack tray!!! Full warrenty..as good as new!!

[Lawrence]

I use the 101 in conjunction with various tube mics and tube comps (MXL V69, NTK, PRO VLA, Summit TLA-50, DBX 576 comp stage) for vox and in that context it's a great pre that amplifies the signals you feed into it very truthfully. You be hard pressed to find anything at $500 that will give you more clean and accurate amplification than a Grace 101. I don't find it harsh at all, but as I say above I use it with tube mics and levelers.

I think the accuracy of it is what some people don't like. In comparison to other pres in that context it may seem to some to be "hard" or "harsh" by comparison since there is very, very little distortion, pleasing or otherwise. If you're looking for color, look elsewhere. Clean very wide frequency gain? Hard to beat at that price.

For vocals the V69 -> 101 -> ProVLA is a really good sounding vocal chain. I track most of my vox with that combo. I actually prefer the ProVLA over the Summit leveler for vox.

AT4050 directly into the Grace with no outboard tube color is .... a little too raw for most vox... especially close micing.

P.S. Acoustic / electric guitar plugged into the M101 via direct box or instrument input sound great. To me anyway...

[rockrev]

ISA One. It's a wonderful preamp - great on anything I've thrown at it. I'd call it clean, with a hint of warm. The variable impedance does wonders for ribbons, btw.

dj

[GordZilla]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

I use the 101 in conjunction with various tube mics and tube comps (MXL V69, NTK, PRO VLA, Summit TLA-50, DBX 576 comp stage) for vox and in that context it's a great pre that amplifies the signals you feed into it very truthfully. You be hard pressed to find anything at $500 that will give you more clean and accurate amplification than a Grace 101. I don't find it harsh at all, but as I say above I use it with tube mics and levelers.

I think the accuracy of it is what some people don't like. In comparison to other pres in that context it may seem to some to be "hard" or "harsh" by comparison since there is very, very little distortion, pleasing or otherwise. If you're looking for color, look elsewhere. Clean very wide frequency gain? Hard to beat at that price.

For vocals the V69 -> 101 -> ProVLA is a really good sounding vocal chain. I track most of my vox with that combo. I actually prefer the ProVLA over the Summit leveler for vox.

AT4050 directly into the Grace with no outboard tube color is .... a little too raw for most vox... especially close micing.

P.S. Acoustic / electric guitar plugged into the M101 via direct box or instrument input sound great. To me anyway...

Yupper... I'm with Lawrence here

Clean, accurate, un-coloured...just the way I like it If my Grace 101 ever sounds "harsh" in any frequency range, it will be because the mic I have plugged into it is "harsh". I agree that a 101 is not for every situation, and if you want some character or "mojo" then don't expect it from this pre... but if I want character, I will get it from my mic selection.

[Coyoteous]

Anybody ever seen one like this - X-mas version, maybe?

[Rooster21]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Anybody ever seen one like this - X-mas version, maybe?

cool, looks like someone may have had their 101 repainted with some very vivid colours !

I wonder what all their other gear looks like.

[Swami Digital]

IMO the m101 is one of the best preamps you can buy if you want clear and detailed. They don't impart any color to your incoming signal, but they do make sure every original detail is present. I preferred it to the RNP, UAD 610, and Focusrite ISA preamps. If you're looking for a particular pleasing coloration then it's not the way to go, but if you're looking to capture sources as they are, then it's a great choice in the $500 range. I now have two! For vocals I mostly use it with an SM7b and I used another preamp that sounds as good to me with this mic.

-D

[Raincrow]

Thanks to everybody for the feedback.

I look forward to exploring it. I know first hand what changing tubes can do. (I took a Behringer T1953 and put some 1962 RCAs in it and it actually was usable for a bit).

I am curious about how much difference I would see between the ART MPA Gold and the Grace. I can get the MPA for a lot cheaper, so if I the difference was not DRAMATIC, I could get the MPA and a mic upgrade (been looking at AT 4040)....

Thanks again. Really helps

[doncaparker]

I don't even own a Grace (yet), but I do own an MPA Gold, and I would be shocked if the difference were not significant.

Don't get me wrong, I like my MPA Gold, and it is useful, but it definitely belongs in the Low End Theory section. The Grace only makes it here due to the price.

[Heartfelt]

If you like clean, that's great. But, I never hear of people tracking albums through a Grace product.

Daking, UA, John Hardy, Dave...

They are clean with slight color. Who wants surgical clean on everything? I think that when people hear the word color (audio), myself included, they tend to get scared but most of it is subtle. It adds a richness, bigness and can add a sense of cohesion.

[Raincrow]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

If you like clean, that's great. But, I never hear of people tracking albums through a Grace product.

Daking, UA, John Hardy, Dave...

They are clean with slight color. Who wants surgical clean on everything? I think that when people hear the word color (audio), myself included, they tend to get scared but most of it is subtle. It adds a richness, bigness and can add a sense of cohesion.

I understand what you are saying, however I have heard some say that it is better to get your 'color' from your mics or instruments than your preamp...I'm not experienced enough to argue either side.

What I am most interested in is 'detail', 'dimensionality', and 'ease of mixing'. Again, I would love to have a GR product, which are not transparent. From what I have read, the 'color' produced in low end gear is not going to be as desirable as in high end gear. I have understood that the clarity and detail of the m101 make it the best preamp for the price.

Any commentary on my comments here is much appreciated!!!!

Thanks again to all.

[Heartfelt]

People get color from the sources in their chain that they know bring it, whether a mic or a pre. There is no rule against either bringing color.

Whether it is intentional or not, people are always matching mics with pres for the color they get. One person mentioned using an SM7B with it and liking it. It is dynamic and not known for being brittle.

Lawrence mentioned that certain mics CAN reveal the hardness of the grace. If you have LDC's in our proce range, they likely will do the same. I am not calling the Grace harsh but all pieces have reputations and what I hear about the grace is being glassy or hard on the top end.

Personally, being like yourself (limited on EQ) I want a fairly nuetral pre that is forward, has plenty of headroom, adds a nice sheen, is not harsh or glassy and that does enhance things slightly adding some bigness. I want one that won't be easy to be known as harsh. I am looking at a Daking. The ones above add something nice but are known as fairly neutral (UA has both Neutral and Colored).

In our position, it seems to me to be wise to find a pre that is known in a high end console. That way, there is a general gaurantee of stacking and playing nice.

Just my 2 cents.

[Raincrow]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

People get color from the sources in their chain that they know bring it, whether a mic or a pre. There is no rule against either bringing color.

Whether it is intentional or not, people are always matching mics with pres for the color they get. One person mentioned using an SM7B with it and liking it. It is dynamic and not known for being brittle.

Lawrence mentioned that certain mics CAN reveal the hardness of the grace. If you have LDC's in our proce range, they likely will do the same. I am not calling the Grace harsh but all pieces have reputations and what I hear about the grace is being glassy or hard on the top end.

Personally, being like yourself (limited on EQ) I want a fairly nuetral pre that is forward, has plenty of headroom, adds a nice sheen, is not harsh or glassy and that does enhance things slightly adding some bigness. I want one that won't be easy to be known as harsh. I am looking at a Daking. The ones above add something nice but are known as fairly neutral (UA has both Neutral and Colored).

In our position, it seems to me to be wise to find a pre that is known in a high end console. That way, there is a general gaurantee of stacking and playing nice.

Just my 2 cents.

Very helpful!! Thanks.

[Heartfelt]

My first High End Pre. Clean or Colored?

I thought this might help. It has much better opinons than mine.
GL, whatever you decide.




Sorry to be so vocal. It wasn't intentional

[Brad Lunde]

Originally Posted by Raincrow

I have been looking at pres and reading many-a-review. I know that the consensus is that it is better to save the cash and go for the $1k mark when it comes to pres, but I just can't do it right now.

I would SOOOO love to get a Great River pre, but that is going to have to wait.

I did read one review that said the m101 can be a little harsh in the mid-high's, but the rest of the things I have heard are impeccable.
Currently, this is at the top of my budget so going any more expensive is not possible.

I am going to be using the pre strictly for vocals and acoustic guitar.

Any thoughts?

thanks in advance.

Yes- Its my opinion mind you, but I've been looking at this a while and it looks like this to me:
True Systems P SOLO at 499 or so, this is a hybrid design (discrete + IC combo) but True owner Time Spencer used to be the boss over at Burr Brown and still consults with that division of Texas Instruments so he knows the good sounding chips from the bad...built in power supply
P SOLO ribbon at 535 wth higher gain and input impedance for ribbons or dynamics.
True is clean without being harsh.
Grace 101 at 550 was the first of the lower cost preamps, so it was early to this game -an IC design; compare to P SOLO
Daking Mic Pre One, some color, very musical, more features at 675; uses transformer and Class A, fully discrete, outboard power supply, better metering, variable LP filter.
Great River NV1 at about 1K with more color yet, well done single channel

Records could be made with any of them ...

The "all in one" 1U under $1000 platinum type boxes do not compare to any of these preamps.

Brad

[Swami Digital]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

Whether it is intentional or not, people are always matching mics with pres for the color they get. One person mentioned using an SM7B with it and liking it. It is dynamic and not known for being brittle.

I have used some cheap LDCs (Rode nt1a, nt2a) that don't sound brittle through the preamp, but it does reveal some harshness inherent in these mics. With a touch of EQ that was gone. That's the nice thing about the Grace.

-D

[Chaellus]

whats this about color? use where need and be creative.. i want a clean pre if im going to be recording something that is isnt so brite as where something that is really bright ill use a dark pre.... sometimes no color is needed. id rather have a superb clean pre than a dark crappy inferior pre.

[cdog]

The grace is a great unit, but dont go so crazy over picking a mic pre.

It just makes THE MIC louder. Thats all it does. It doesnt write the bridge and intro.

The mic is 10x more important to the sound than the pre.

[hello people]

No wonder amatuers like me have no clue at all...there are many who would say virtually the complete opposite of that last comment regarding pres.

[skiltrip]

I had a Grace Model 101 for a while, and I just never was that in love with it. Maybe it was simply the fact that it was too clean for my tastes. And I do stress the 'my tastes' part. I like a little bit of coloring, cause with most good gear, that coloring is a pleasing thing.

I actually prefer the sound of the FMR RNP over the Grace Model 101. I cannot speak for the m101, the newer black model, as I've never used them. But I have no reason to think it sounds any/ much different. Anyone who's had both the old chrome one and the new black one, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Great thing with the RNP is you get two channels right off the bat. I always like pres in pairs. (mics too when i can afford it).

[Heartfelt]

Being that a lot of my opinion comes from good reporting, maybe I should be less outspoken. I have simply researched low end pres to death, especially on GS.

Every piece gets a reputation and that was what I was tyring to point out.

[jaz49]

Originally Posted by skiltrip

I had a Grace Model 101 for a while, and I just never was that in love with it. Maybe it was simply the fact that it was too clean for my tastes. And I do stress the 'my tastes' part. I like a little bit of coloring, cause with most good gear, that coloring is a pleasing thing.

I actually prefer the sound of the FMR RNP over the Grace Model 101. I cannot speak for the m101, the newer black model, as I've never used them. But I have no reason to think it sounds any/ much different. Anyone who's had both the old chrome one and the new black one, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Great thing with the RNP is you get two channels right off the bat. I always like pres in pairs. (mics too when i can afford it).

Like the OP I'm looking to buy something around $500.00 or under. Any other slutz compared the Grace with the RNP or an MPA? There's also the new Black Lion Auteur in the same price range which I hear is more 'colored'. Most people seem to like the RNP, though one recent post claimed it's not up there with the Grace...quality/sound wise. I don't see how it could be, since it's two channels and the Grace is one...for about the same price.

[Raincrow]

Originally Posted by jaz49

Like the OP I'm looking to buy something around $500.00 or under. Any other slutz compared the Grace with the RNP or an MPA? There's also the new Black Lion Auteur in the same price range which I hear is more 'colored'. Most people seem to like the RNP, though one recent post claimed it's not up there with the Grace...quality/sound wise. I don't see how it could be, since it's two channels and the Grace is one...for about the same price.

Funny you should mention the BLA unit. I actually have their site open in another window.

I am dying to see if anybody has received one and how it tested..,..

I like the thought of 2 channels as opposed to one, but it could have some draw backs.

1. At that price (325 for the next 2 days, then 465), can a unit do what so many have tried and failed to do with cheaper units (supposedly)....that is create a 'colored' sound that is pleasing and does not get muddy after 3 tracks.

2. No HPF

[jaz49]

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...n-audio-2.html

No one wants to come right out and say how it compares with the RNP...the only other supposedly quality 2 channel pre in that price range?