Apex 460 tube mic

[Sugarnutz]

I am curious why in the pictures the leads to the capsule were cut and spliced. This is a capacitance amplifier circuit and the signal from the capsule is pretty small, looks like a new joint in the wires would be a bad thing. In my 460 we just un-screwed and reused the original leads with no problems (just be very careful when removing/connecting the center terminal). If the leads are not long enough I would soldier the new leads that came with the capsule to the point where the old leads originate in the circuit. Strickly my $.02 on the subject.

[Echowash]

Originally Posted by drBill

Echowash - nice! Looking forward to the transformer swap "how to". Good work!

bp

Ok as promised here's the transformer mod site. This involves the modding of an Apex 460 mic with a Cinemag CM-2480 transformer:

Apex 460 Transformer Mod

Also we did some comparisons on an acoustic guitar with a stock 460, a 460 with the cinemag transformer and then a 460 with a cinemag transformer, peluso capsule and a groovetubes at7 tube. You can take a listen here:

Apex 460 Mod MP3 Comparison


Enjoy!

[Echowash]

Originally Posted by Sugarnutz

I am curious why in the pictures the leads to the capsule were cut and spliced. This is a capacitance amplifier circuit and the signal from the capsule is pretty small, looks like a new joint in the wires would be a bad thing. In my 460 we just un-screwed and reused the original leads with no problems (just be very careful when removing/connecting the center terminal). If the leads are not long enough I would soldier the new leads that came with the capsule to the point where the old leads originate in the circuit. Strickly my $.02 on the subject.

I was wondering what would be better and was told by Peluso not to unscrew the leads from the capsule. I guess we now know both ways work .

[Matti]

In my mics I unsoldered/soldered the capsule´s leads to the pcb as
I had the mic open for other changes and had to change
the mount to a M7 type one from Wilson ( the capsule pictured
is not mine but of the same type in principe )

Matti

[tonymite]

Originally Posted by Echowash

Ok as promised here's the transformer mod site. This involves the modding of an Apex 460 mic with a Cinemag CM-2480 transformer:

Apex 460 Transformer Mod

Also we did some comparisons on an acoustic guitar with a stock 460, a 460 with the cinemag transformer and then a 460 with a cinemag transformer, peluso capsule and a groovetubes at7 tube. You can take a listen here:

Apex 460 Mod MP3 Comparison


Enjoy!

I bought 2 apex 460's hoping to do exactly these mods - now according to my laptop speakers and my ears, the umodded file sounds best to me ... hopefully it's the laptop speakers... it's still the same reference point though.. maybe its the lack of detail in the unmodded that's compatible with the laptop speaker ?
am i making any sense ? i think im starting to hear that cinemag signature too.

[Echowash]

Originally Posted by tonymite

I bought 2 apex 460's hoping to do exactly these mods - now according to my laptop speakers and my ears, the umodded file sounds best to me ... hopefully it's the laptop speakers... it's still the same reference point though.. maybe its the lack of detail in the unmodded that's compatible with the laptop speaker ?
am i making any sense ? i think im starting to hear that cinemag signature too.

I would say it's definitely the laptop speakers. The transformer seems to have cleared up this boxy low mid hump and the capsule seems to have added some sparkle. You wouldn't hear any of that on speakers that are already probably a little boxy sounding .

[Sugarnutz]

The stock capsule has a peak centered around 4-5k and is kinda agressive which is not the ideal or traditional peak of a classic tube mic. The Puluso has the peak higher up at 10k or so and a bit smoother in nature which is what your looking for, giving the "Sparkle" noted in the post above.

[Matti]

More like 2,5 K in this graph taken from the old Tele Usa vs. Apex
article.

Matti

[TornadoTed]

Anyone know if there is a T-Bone (Thomann) version of this mic?

It would be easier and cheaper for me to buy T-Bone in Europe than importing an Apex from the US

[orange]

Originally Posted by TornadoTed

Anyone know if there is a T-Bone (Thomann) version of this mic?

It would be easier and cheaper for me to buy T-Bone in Europe than importing an Apex from the US

Don't think so, the sct800 looks close - but different.

[Sugarnutz]

Originally Posted by MATTI

More like 2,5 K in this graph taken from the old Tele Usa vs. Apex
article.

Matti

My bad, it still sux.

Peluso chart:

[Matti]

I got these from Peluso

Cheers

Matti

[Matti]

TornadoTed, it doesn´t have to be an Apex, mine is a
GOLDEN AGE PROJECT TC 1 from Sweden which is from the same
Alctron factory as Apex but easyer to mod as it has wider body.
Golden Age Project.

pictured mine after the mods, inside pics in my prewious posts

Matti

[Mozart]

Here is a clip with 3 Apex 460, not modified, directly to API 512c -20db pad, two overheads and one in the front of the BD, (24 inch OLD Ludwig) 2 feet away pointed down to the head. I had only Clone SSL on the master, all tracks equal level, OH L-R and Kick to the center. Just a sample, you judge about the mics.
Me playing drums (not a great drummer)
I have PLENTY of Class "A" mics, this was only experiment.

[Mozart]

Originally Posted by dasbin

Mine definitely had a 12AT7 in it.

I also swapped it with a NOS 12AT7 with no difference in sound.


But I agree, the Peluso capsule makes a huge difference in sound. The mic becomes nearly godly with it. The tone is so 3D and full.
I think the Cinemag will give you a bit of a coloured texture. I'm planning on doing a bit of a circuit redesign in mine and using a Lundahl output trafo... clean and huge.

What model Lundahl output transformer are you using?

Thanks,
Mozart

[augustrigo]

I just bought a 460 and it came with a Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 tube (made in Russia) Normal or No? Bad or Good?

Anybody with some insight please let me know....

[james.ca]

If your going to repalce the diaphrm I'd just go to another mic .
Transformers Jennsen and check Michael Jolly oktava mic mods he uses a transormer out of Sweden I belive starts with an L
.

He also might be a dude to mod the mic as well.
James.ca

[TornadoTed]

Originally Posted by MATTI

TornadoTed, it doesn´t have to be an Apex, mine is a
GOLDEN AGE PROJECT TC 1 from Sweden which is from the same
Alctron factory as Apex but easyer to mod as it has wider body.
Golden Age Project.

pictured mine after the mods, inside pics in my prewious posts

Matti

I completely forgot about this thread. I got 2x Alctron HST-11A from eBay for £200 in the end. I've changed out the transformer and capacitors and resistors and will replace the capsule for a CEK-12 once I get some spare cash.

[peeder]

These mics aren't truly terrible stock. Retubing can help quite a bit. And yes you could use one as the platform for a frankenmic.

But you can make music just with a stock one...it's warm and a bit wooly and not terribly detailed...but you can make music with it!

[mamm7215]

I agree with Peeder, for the price, it's really NOT bad at all stock. I did the full on re-do on mine. The CEK-12 capsule is awesome. A little "bigger" with the cinemag transformer but not the same big change as the capsule. I also re-tubed with an NOS RCA 6072A and that made a sweet difference as well. Pretty much my goto mic now, not that my studio is terribly high-end or anything.

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by peeder

But you can make music just with a stock one...it's warm and a bit wooly and not terribly detailed...but you can make music with it!

if you get a good one this is exactly how it sounds. sometimes there's call for a mic that sounds like that. once they're been modified, the only similarity is the look of the mic body.

[lpkyer]

Personallly I like this mic best only with a tube change.

[dale116dot7]

I posted earlier in this thread about using an AKG capsule. I ended up pulling out the AKG capsule and using it to repair a C414 for a local recording engineer. I've got one of the same capsules pictured above (probably from the same place) and put it in. I've got a few more capsules to use, I'll probably pick up one or two more of the 460's for a base.

-Dale

[Matti]

Hi, Dale!

Matti

[james.ca]

Nah ! I spned the bread on something with more quaility to it .
.
If you intend to mod fine but why in gods name buy a condencer mic and then replace it's diaphram , I figure just go buy a better mic if you intend to to that to any mic.

The Apx 435 nice buy, drum packs good value,
a sleeper mic they make is there Apex 770 instrument mic high spl and can use on any thing from the kick up - under 50 bucks with cable and mic clip .
I'd go CAD , AT , Rhodes before buying a 460
nice looking thing but that;s about it
James.ca

[dale116dot7]

Originally Posted by james.ca

If you intend to mod fine but why in gods name buy a condencer mic and then replace it's diaphram , I figure just go buy a better mic if you intend to to that to any mic.

Because for the price you can't build a power supply and mic body. So you buy the mic knowing you are going to replace the transformer, tube, and mic capsule. Of course, I build the mic capsules so they just cost me nothing but time.

[craigmorris74]

Dale which AKG capsule was it? How did it sound?

Craig

[dale116dot7]

I used the 2072Z0005 capsule, which is the one out of the older C414EB, nylon capsule. Obviously the brass capsule is better but is best used in an AKG mic. Sounded pretty nice, though there was still a bit of harshness which was due to the grille design. I think it is too small or too closed. Tearing out the inner mesh and leaving just the outer one seems to help the sound and get rid of some of the spitty sound. Anyways, swapping the capsule gets rid of most of the 8kHz, the mesh takes care of the rest.

I've used a DRS capsule, AKG, and ony of my M7 clones and they all sound good. I've even put one of the old Syncron AU7 capsules in one. The DRS capsule is a bit shy on proximity effect - it's pretty balanced up close but a tad bit bass shy when you get farther away. Oh yea, DRS = Debenham, Robinson, Stebbings, it's a microphone capsule design published in a mid 1960's audio magazine. Anyone with access to a mill and a decent lathe, and a lot of patience, should be able to make one from the article.

http://www.10000cows.com/DebenhamCapsule.jpg

http://www.conditionedresponse.com/DIY/microphones/Debenham.pdf

When this article was written, few companies were making condensor mics - Neumann and AKG, obviously. A few other German companies. Sony, Capps, Altec. Now that condensors are cheap (thanks to Audio-Technica, Alctron, and 797 Audio), the motivation to build one to save money is a bit less, I think.

-Dale

[DeeDrive]

Anybody have any good suggestions on a tube replacement for this mic? I've seen a lot about the GE 6072, but which one? There's the 6072, 6072A, and I see a bunch of JAN-6072A GE tubes on ebay, there's black plate...so many options, anybody know what an original C12 uses, or does it really matter with 6072 you use?

[mamm7215]

I believe 6072a is the original spec, I think I read that somewhere. I'm using an NOS RCA 6072a blackplate, it sounds the best for what I like. I've tried 12ax7, 12at7 and found the 6072a (an at7 variant) to be what I like the best.
Hope this helps.