Older vs newer Behringer

[KillerV]

I have an older (mid-90's I believe) Behringer MX2004 mixing desk that a friend gave me a while back. I see that these desks have discrete preamps (apparently the same ones as the MX8000 used to have) and a couple of other features that I don't see advertised on newer Behringer gear. The whole thing feels much sturdier than some of the newer Behri's I've tried and everything is still in full working order. The preamps all have pre-EQ/fader inserts that allowed me to A/B them against my RNPs and a couple of other ones and they actually compare pretty decently. I've even done a full mix where I've used only the desk's preamps to see how they "stack" and it wasn't half bad. I was planning on getting an decent 8-channel pre to extend my front-end some more for when I record things like drums, but I might not do that anymore.

I've used newer Behringer gear and it's definitely of a lesser quality - in sound and build. The newer preamps muddy things up real quickly. What is the concensus on older vs newer Behringer gear? I know many people will say (1) It's Behringer, so it's junk - leave it alone or (2) Use it if it works for you. But I was just wondering anyway.

[darkman2]

the only good thing they make is ..ohoh they havnt made it yet..

[virtualsamana]

I would say use it if it works for you.

[aussie_techie]

some of there older stuff is better than the newer stuff, but alot of the newer stuff is so bad that almost anything is better so its not saying alot and comparing anything is all subjective anyway.

while the build quality might be better than what is coming out now most of that older stuff is still coming to the age where it will start to fail and people dont want to spend the money on servicing a cheap desk when they could just go and replace it for a similar price. however if it is still all working and you look after it it should last for some time. (just keep a can of deoxit handy )

the one thing i think they have improved is the noise, some of the older desks were noisy and you had to watch your gain staging.

side by side there would much better options available these days in the low budget arena such as im sure your finding with the RNP and the EQs would be beat out by any good plug-in but having an analogue desk is a different way of working so who is to say whats better for you and at the end of the day you just have to use what works.

so (2) Use it if it works for you, just dont be surprised if it does develop problems down the track and save up some money for when you decide its time for it to go.

[biggator6]

I far prefer vintage Behringer gear to all the new stuff.. back in the day, they had some vibe, some mojo - hard to replicate that 'sound' with new gear.






.. sorry, can't even say that with a straight face.
"-)

[poncival]

I worked at a pretty big music store in CT that some of you may be familiar with from 1990 to about 1994 and sold a LOT of Mackie 8 busses and ADATs, ahh those were good times. During this time, Behringer released their 8 bus console which was clearly a ripoff of the Mackie design, so identical in appearance that many people who wanted to save a buck ended up buying them instead of the typical 3 ADATs and Mackie 2408 setup that I sold so many of. I remember a few people actually saying "how different could they be, I mean look at em!" he he

For educational purposes only, we set up a Mackie and Behringer right next to each other and ran a bunch of tests with CD's, mics, pink noise and an RTA etc. The Behringer was, as you would expect, pathetically rotten sounding compared to the Mackie, and even from channel to channel it was very inconsistent. The EQ's didn't do what the labels said they were doing by a long shot and the Mackie mic pres were shimmering and gorgeous compared to the crunchy flat Behringers. We had a lot of returns on these consoles because many of them had problems right out of the box.

A few years before all this, they had a thing called a "Composer" which was actually kind of cool and did offer the seemingly sturdier build quality you mentioned although when we compared it to a DBX 166 it was night and day sound quality wise, the DBX was amazingly hi-fi by comparison.

I have to admit though that I did run about 1000 sessions back in the day with the Behringer Headphone amp and it ran great for years but now that I think of it those were the days when clients were generally griping about their headphone mixes being bad no matter what we did mix-wise... And then eventually outputs started dropping out one by one.... The furman headphone system we replaced it with back in 1995 is still running great in our studio B and no complaints about the headphone mixes anymore! Of course it's no comparison to the Mytek

[stafs]

As a former Behringer user, i can say: "Don't waste Your money".

[MonoBrow]

The older behringer stuff which was made in germany was actually pretty good and often used for live sound.It wasnt as cheap as todays stuff tho.

[Jonboy79]

Nobody ever wants to admit it but Behringer does make some decent stuff. Their ada8000 isn't a bad preamp at all. In fact I have a song here in St. Louis that's getting weekly radio play on probably the most popular station in the city that was totally tracked with an ada8000. Funny thing is this band had previously tracked 3 songs with me when I was using a True Systems Precision 8 and they think the song they tracked using the ada8000 is far superior sounding. Honestly, I kind of think so too. I also found it funny that so many people bash Behringer, yet when I put the ada8000 up in the classified section I had around 20 pm's within the first 4 hours. Now there is some of their stuff that is no good, like their cheaper mixers.

[dude24man]

speaking of old behringer gear, I have 2 of the first MDX 2000 composers. they work pretty well. I'll sell 1 if somebody wants 1. Arthur

[SNJ Studio]

OK a lot of hate for Behringer from me. They crap out so fast, the pots gets scratchy...

Pffft to people remembering "vintage" Composers.

However, I have been happy with my Behringer Bass Head - tone is actually good, has survived a year of live shows and recording. Maybe I got lucky. Well it's great until I get my Ampeg.

Adz

[maxpidge]

REALY, i didn't realize people paid money for behringer shit...

[staudio]

If I had $30,000 I would totally buy the vintage Behringer 670.

[aussie_techie]

Originally Posted by SNJ Studio

I have been happy with my Behringer Bass Head - tone is actually good, has survived a year of live shows and recording.

as long as you dont use it with a behringer cab or use the DI or run it into a behringer comp they get you by for live stuff but hey any decent DI into a decent console with a 160 will get you by regardless of the name on the head.

Its a company that we all love to hate but lets not kid our selves that we haven't all used it when we have to or that we would ever chose to use it if there were other options. Lets not pretend that any behringer can ever be labeled as classic or vintage, just old or new nothing else.

well i choose to have the cable tester as its been the most useful thing i have ever bought but thats where it ends.

[maxpidge]

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

as long as you dont use it with a behringer cab or use the DI or run it into a behringer comp they get you by for live stuff but hey any decent DI into a decent console with a 160 will get you by regardless of the name on the head.

Its a company that we all love to hate but lets not kid our selves that we haven't all used it when we have to or that we would ever chose to use it if there were other options. Lets not pretend that any behringer can ever be labeled as classic or vintage, just old or new nothing else.

well i choose to have the cable tester as its been the most useful thing i have ever bought but thats where it ends.

i've pulled 16 channeles of behringer inserts live before and ran bands straight though the pa, its way better

[Zeppelin]

I have MX2004 i think too(8mic and some stereo line-ins). Think it's decent for the practice room and easy live stuff. Have one of the newer 802 with 2mic and two stereo in..the worlds worst headphone output. no rejection of anything ti speak of..pos

[CrankyRayHanky]

Originally Posted by darkman2

the only good thing they make is ..ohoh they havnt made it yet..

The sticker looks cool

[Phrygian]

The words "vintage Behringer" make me laugh, but hey, one of the best bass sounds I ever got included a Composer Pro in the chain. Go figure.

[KillerV]

I should have known... I mean absolutely no offense and I have no intention of starting a flaming war of any kind, but I only really asked a very simple question: Is older Behringer gear considered any better than the newer stuff? I had already stated what I felt I found to be the case, so I just wondered if anyone agreed. If no-one does it's really fine. I would've liked a sort of meaningful discussion around the topic. I did not ask if I should buy it, nor did I ask if I should spend any money on it so I'm not wasting any money. I had already stated that it was given to me by a friend. I had also already stated that I will continue using it because it works for me. No-one said anything about "vintage".

I'll be the first to say that *most* (it's complete bullshit to say this of every last piece they make) Behringer gear isn't all that great. Their stuff will never be my first choice when I'm picking gear to use. But I have found that if you can't get a half-decent recording done with Behringer (or any other "prosumer") gear the problem more than likely has to do with your skills and/or the music you are recording. I applaud guys like JonBoy79 for using what he has to make great recordings.

Thanks to the people who actually came up with a real reply.

I swear sometimes Gearslutz just feels like high-school all over again...

[Phrygian]

Originally Posted by KillerV

Thanks to the people who actually came up with a real reply.

I swear sometimes Gearslutz just feels like high-school all over again...

I wouldn't get too upset that things veered off track a little....it is a message board after all.

[valverec]

My experience with Behringer gear has been that it works but that it sounds really, really, really bad. I think they've made a couple gems throughout the years, but for the most part they've been known for making poor copies of sub par gear. I had a composer for a couple years in the mid 90's and while it worked, it is the worst sounding compressor I have ever used. Unfortunately it was my first compressor and it took me a year or two to realize that compression is good, it's just my crappy Behringer compressor that is bad.

I also used to use one of their little cruddy mixers on my test bench until I realized that the preamps were such crap that the design was actually introducing noise where other preamps, say Mackie, or any other cheap preamp, would not. It was nuts and I spent about $100 and countless hours on a compressor I was building trying to get the noise out, only to realize that it was the f'n Behringer with it's crappy impedance matching/balancing circuit that was reacting oddly to my normal gear. It happened again with another piece of regular gear, a Lexicon 300, and then I just tossed the thing in the garbage.

That's not to say all of their gear is bad (everyone gets lucky every once in a while, even Behringer), only that my experience with their gear is that it's poorly designed, put together with the lowest cost parts and labor with absolutely no care for sound quality. They jam a ton of features into their equipment to make it feel like you're getting something great, only to skimp on everything that matters from R&D to components to build quality.

I say take a pass on it and pony up for something better. As to your question as to whether it was better before, well my composer was from the mid 90's and was junk, and everything from that time period, from gates on down the line, was horrible. I never used the mixer you're talking about though, so maybe it is a hidden gem, but I would 110% skeptical of it because Behringer has a bad track record going way back to their inception.

[jsrockit]

I have a Behringer Minimoog and it just doesn't have the low-end of the original.

[Jonboy79]

I bet some of the people bashing Behringer while making no point whatsoever or contributing anything to the thread probably have no idea that Michael Wagener used Behringer gear all over the bass tracks of the new Kings X record. I think I even remember him saying that the stuff he used sounded pretty decent as well.

[ForgottenG]

I am not sure it would be accurate to say Michael used it "all over" the new KingsX album. Using it on one channel blended with a direct signal and who knows what other magic on a bass track doesn't necessarily constitute "all over" That being said they did seem to get it right with the ADA8000 for the price it holds up well. Most of Behringer equipment has noticable aurel short-commings.