Art MPA Gold Clips!

prslespaul · 10th October 2008, 05:37 PM

Hey guys, just finished recording a beatles cover in my studio. It was a short project to test out the new tubes in the Art MPA Gold. I have 1 Telefunken 12Ax7 and a Mullard in the other side. The signal chain is ST77 -> Mogami Cable -> Art MPA Gold -> Mackie Onyx 400F then to some light compression and EQ of course. Let me know what you guys think.

Chance · 10th October 2008, 06:41 PM

Nice
With the new tubes, how did they affect the "tube sat." control?

BudgetMC · 10th October 2008, 07:25 PM

Very nice! Guitar sounds GREAT. Which channel did you use for what?

BOWIE · 10th October 2008, 10:20 PM

I'm really glad to see someone post how good humble gear can sound with vintage tubes!

prslespaul · 10th October 2008, 11:08 PM

Haha, well I'm glad you guys like it. For vocals and bass (line in) I used the telefunken. The acoustic, a Taylor, I used a st77 about a foot away and a st33 on the body and neck area with the st33 going through the mullard. Both tubes sound good, not too much apart but some. As far as the tube sat, I couldn't tell you because I never used it with the stock tubes. I changed them bad boys out before I even plugged it in. LOL.

Mylithra · 11th October 2008, 01:28 AM

I did replace the tubes in mine with NOS mullard 12AT7s and did listen before and after the change.

The tube Sat knob did behave a little differently. It took a little more gain to get any kind of break up but I attributed that to 12AT7 being lower gain tubes than the 12AX7.

79_Limited · 11th October 2008, 01:29 AM

Screw the gear used. I love the voice!

Mylithra · 11th October 2008, 02:02 AM

Sounds great.
+1 to bring out the lead vocal. As good as the load vocal track is it could stand to be brought out a little more.
The guitar sounds pretty good as well.. I think it could use a touch more body.

Its a great recording

:)

mamm7215 · 11th October 2008, 05:35 PM

The amazing thing is I've got an MPA Gold and you sound like you recorded on mine. I actually recognized some characteristics. I've got JJ's in mine but have a primo '64 NOS mullard showing up next week for one channel. Great recording, your voice sounds good, needs to be mixed higher.

Micah Tolentino · 11th October 2008, 05:45 PM

that sounds great man.

If anything I'd spread the guitar further out, M/S maybe? But overall sounds great. 2nd verse is lower than 1st verse it seems.

Where'd you get your tubes?

prslespaul · 11th October 2008, 06:07 PM

Thanks again guys, well, i tried to add body to the guitar but the capo is so high up the neck that it lacks lows and if i tried to up the lows it just got boomy. I got the tubes at Welcome to TubeDepot.com!.. They are great, fast shipping and cheap! B ). Bought the mullards for my amp head from there too lol.

BOWIE · 11th October 2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prslespaul

I got the tubes at Welcome to TubeDepot.com!.. They are great, fast shipping and cheap! B ).

Well, if it does anyone any good, I sell Telefunken and Mullard 12AX7's for less than half the price of TubeDepot. Tube depot is a good place and I buy my boxes from them but if you can't afford $159 for one Telefunken, my tubes are as-good (often better) and are auditioned in actual mic preamps (along with being tested on tube testers).

Ironklad Audio · 11th October 2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

The tube Sat knob did behave a little differently. It took a little more gain to get any kind of break up but I attributed that to 12AT7 being lower gain tubes than the 12AX7.

what the hell knob are you guys talking about?

call me crazy, but my MPA gold doesn't have a saturation control on it anywhere...at least not anything specifically labeled as such

Mylithra · 11th October 2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

what the hell knob are you guys talking about?

call me crazy, but my MPA gold doesn't have a saturation control on it anywhere...at least not anything specifically labeled as such

The input gain drives the tube.

jaz49 · 12th October 2008, 06:04 AM

Great sounding vocal track! agree that the guitar is overpowering the vocals. Nice to hear that low end gear can make some good tracks...I just may have to get me one of those MPA's! I wonder if JJ Tesla's would be a major improvement over stock tubes...anybody tried them?

http://www.soundclick.com/lejaz

BOWIE · 12th October 2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaz49

I wonder if JJ Tesla's would be a major improvement over stock tubes...anybody tried them?
SoundClick artist: Le Jaz - All original music... rock/folk/country/jazz

They won't make much difference. Some people think they do but those people have not tried high-end vintage tubes.

I'm diggin your songs man! Suit and Tie is a trip. Totally reminds me of Lou Reed. Refreshingly different. Makes me wanan get high though

jaz49 · 12th October 2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOWIE

They won't make much difference. Some people think they do but those people have not tried high-end vintage tubes.

I'm diggin your songs man! Suit and Tie is a trip. Totally reminds me of Lou Reed. Refreshingly different. Makes me wanan get high though

Hey Bowie, thanks! glad you liked the tunes. I wish I had done Suit and Tie with better gear...I only had senn. e835 and emu 0404usb at the time. I'm liking the PR35 with the Aphex 107 a lot better! Ha ha...light one up for me...those days are over for me, but I have some fond memories! If I decide on that MPA, I'll definitely PM you about some better tubes.

toxostoma rufum · 12th October 2008, 06:23 PM

I got JJ's and Tung-Sols for my MPA. They don't sound as good as things I've heard with Mullards and Telefunkens etc...but the JJs and Tung-Sols sound significantly better than the stock tubes in almost every way. Also, the JJs (more top end sheen) and Tung-Sols (more punchy low-mids) sound different from each other.

Still, I'm considering flipping my Heil PR40 (thin, thin, thin) for some good NOS.

doncaparker · 12th October 2008, 07:00 PM

The song sounds great! contrary to what others have said, I actually think the lead vocal is where it ought to be in the mix. I wouldn't change a thing.

I bet the "sucking in air" sound was a bit of a challenge, but it came off well.

I like the choice of going in a slightly different direction from the original re: the phrasing of the wrap-up of the harmonies on the word "girl" in the chorus. The Beatles actually let the harmonies trail off in a more haphazard manner, IIRC. You chose to make the wrap-up more precise. I think that was a wise decision.

I really like my MPA Gold, too. Once you put good tubes in it, if you can't make good recordings with it, the gear ain't the problem.

Good work!

prslespaul · 12th October 2008, 07:24 PM

Wow im really pleased you guys like it! I am pretty happy with the outcome myself. I mixed and mastered it here in my studio; I never really bothered to take it to any other source due to the fact it was just a sample not really a product of any kind. I guess that explains why some people say to raise vox or just lower the acoustic. No one said anything about the bass track. I have it pretty quiet in the mix because i wanted to keep it more of a acoustic thing. Anyways, I dont think its going to make a huge difference between something like a mullard and a JJ. Its going to sound different but its not really going to change the quality, more characteristics of the sound.. What ever you like more. I think its more of how you learn to use what you have. Anyways, i get my Chameleon 7602 in the mail pretty soon! I'm anxious to hear it as ive heard good things. I will be sure to put some clips up on a new post.

Kontrackz · 12th October 2008, 10:16 PM

Definately let us know how the chameleon goes, I am looking at purchasing one myself.

skiltrip · 15th October 2008, 02:35 PM

Very nice.

I had an MPA Gold a few months back. I put JJs in it, and I hated it. Ended up selling it and buying some different pres.

After listening to this though, I'm tempted to get another one at some point and put some serious NOS tubes in it like you did.
I definitely miss looking at in my rack. It's sharp looking piece of gear.

Again, nice job, like the sounds and the performance.

Jay- · 15th October 2008, 02:48 PM

What was the total cost of the MPA Gold with the good tubes?
Im saving a bit for an analog synth so can I use cheaper "good tubes"

How much for cheaper tubes?

mamm7215 · 15th October 2008, 05:43 PM

I had jj's in mine until 1 channeln went so I got a real mullard. Big diff, surprising. Stock was grainy/noisy. jj was cleaner so better, I thought. Mullard seems to have more fullness/dimension. I'm going to get another for the other channel, too. Maybe my VLA as well.

BOWIE · 15th October 2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamm7215

I had jj's in mine until 1 channeln went so I got a real mullard. Big diff, surprising. Stock was grainy/noisy. jj was cleaner so better, I thought. Mullard seems to have more fullness/dimension. I'm going to get another for the other channel, too. Maybe my VLA as well.

That's a good way of putting it. Good vintage tubes have a really deep sound stage and you can hear all the detail. Plus you can push vintage tubes hard for nice saturation and harmonic overtones whereas the newer ones just crap out and get thin/buzzy.

river · 15th October 2008, 08:48 PM

Don't overlook US made NOS tubes, I have 3 Pro MPA's with vintage valves in them, get tons of compliments. Look at Westinghouse, Raytheon, Sylvania, GE.....lots of great stuff out there. I have some Mullards too, love them as well.

doncaparker · 15th October 2008, 09:44 PM

Yeah, I put NOS RCA tubes in my MPA Gold. They sound great.

HeavyG · 15th October 2008, 10:41 PM

First: nice recording. I agree that the capoed Taylor sounds a bit "mando" like...but still crisp and pretty. Someone mentioned spreading it...i agree. It is also a bit dominating in the mix...but it sounds like you have a great raw track to deal with....and THE VOCALS...wow...nicely done. Push those babies up front...FANTASTIC performance all around. Did I say more BASS?

Second: I am assuming that since you went into the Mackie 400 this is not a "digital" MPA...right? I want to get the Digital MPA and I was curious if the converters are ok...

Either way...bravo! I am a fan...great gear...even better performance.

cornutt · 15th October 2008, 10:52 PM

Didn't we have a thread about the Digital MPA about six months ago? As I recall, the net.opinion on the converters was "meh".

prslespaul · 15th October 2008, 11:03 PM

Well I mean regaurdless of the tubes the mpa is a pretty versitle pre. I have to say even with lower classed tubes, like JJ's, you can get some good sounds out of it with the right settings and right mic. I have a pretty wide variety of mics and I though the st77 really made it shine. My nuemann didn't really bark at me, as it is considered to be a better sounding mic to some, I still thought it paired with the mpa well. I can also say my eq and compression settings played a major part in this recording. And like I tell everyone, it's not what gear you have it's how you use it! And thanks again for the complements, I'm gunna bring down the guitars a bit and widen them a bit and repost later on today to see how it sounds on your rigs :-).

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10th October 2008, 06:41 PM	#2
Chance Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ontario California Posts: 298	Nice With the new tubes, how did they affect the "tube sat." control? __________________ Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop musicians.workshop@gte.net http://www.the-musicians-workshop.com

10th October 2008, 07:25 PM	#3
BudgetMC Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ameliastan Posts: 1,723	Very nice! Guitar sounds GREAT. Which channel did you use for what? __________________ Budget MC Productions: Where Economy and Dignity Meet. http://46Long.blogspot.com http://myspace.com/46long http://cdbaby.com/cd/46long

11th October 2008, 05:35 PM	#9
mamm7215 Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: BC Canada Posts: 347	The amazing thing is I've got an MPA Gold and you sound like you recorded on mine. I actually recognized some characteristics. I've got JJ's in mine but have a primo '64 NOS mullard showing up next week for one channel. Great recording, your voice sounds good, needs to be mixed higher. __________________ Strat, Cort C4Z Bass, K-Yairi Semi-acoustic, Sonar 8PE,Drawmer 1968ME, Apex 460 (modded), SP C-1, SM57, Apex 205(modded), Blues Jr. amp, Boss GT-8, Roland D20 for Keys/midi, Yamaha DTXpressII, M-patch2 monitor controller, Konnekt48, SCA n72's, S-Patch Plus patch bay, Adam A7's, various plugs and softs.

11th October 2008, 05:45 PM	#10
Micah Tolentino Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vallejo, CA` Posts: 205	that sounds great man. If anything I'd spread the guitar further out, M/S maybe? But overall sounds great. 2nd verse is lower than 1st verse it seems. Where'd you get your tubes? __________________ M1 Audio Services Mixing, Recording, Music Production, Vocal Coaching "I used to believe the equipment was what made the difference, but it's been proven to me so many times over that once you're into good shit you can do the job, that I just have to say it, don't agonize, just ****ing record." -Dan Kennedy

10th October 2008, 10:20 PM	#4
BOWIE Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Scottsdale, AZ. Posts: 1,951	I'm really glad to see someone post how good humble gear can sound with vintage tubes!

10th October 2008, 11:08 PM	#5
prslespaul Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 44	Haha, well I'm glad you guys like it. For vocals and bass (line in) I used the telefunken. The acoustic, a Taylor, I used a st77 about a foot away and a st33 on the body and neck area with the st33 going through the mullard. Both tubes sound good, not too much apart but some. As far as the tube sat, I couldn't tell you because I never used it with the stock tubes. I changed them bad boys out before I even plugged it in. LOL.

11th October 2008, 01:28 AM	#6
Mylithra Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 282	I did replace the tubes in mine with NOS mullard 12AT7s and did listen before and after the change. The tube Sat knob did behave a little differently. It took a little more gain to get any kind of break up but I attributed that to 12AT7 being lower gain tubes than the 12AX7.

11th October 2008, 01:29 AM	#7
79_Limited Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 239	Screw the gear used. I love the voice!

11th October 2008, 02:02 AM	#8
Mylithra Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 282	Sounds great. +1 to bring out the lead vocal. As good as the load vocal track is it could stand to be brought out a little more. The guitar sounds pretty good as well.. I think it could use a touch more body. Its a great recording :)

11th October 2008, 06:07 PM	#11
prslespaul Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 44	Thanks again guys, well, i tried to add body to the guitar but the capo is so high up the neck that it lacks lows and if i tried to up the lows it just got boomy. I got the tubes at Welcome to TubeDepot.com!.. They are great, fast shipping and cheap! B ). Bought the mullards for my amp head from there too lol.

12th October 2008, 06:04 AM	#15
jaz49 Gear addict Join Date: May 2008 Location: by the beach Posts: 339	Great sounding vocal track! agree that the guitar is overpowering the vocals. Nice to hear that low end gear can make some good tracks...I just may have to get me one of those MPA's! I wonder if JJ Tesla's would be a major improvement over stock tubes...anybody tried them? http://www.soundclick.com/lejaz

12th October 2008, 06:23 PM	#18
toxostoma rufum Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 203	I got JJ's and Tung-Sols for my MPA. They don't sound as good as things I've heard with Mullards and Telefunkens etc...but the JJs and Tung-Sols sound significantly better than the stock tubes in almost every way. Also, the JJs (more top end sheen) and Tung-Sols (more punchy low-mids) sound different from each other. Still, I'm considering flipping my Heil PR40 (thin, thin, thin) for some good NOS.

12th October 2008, 07:00 PM	#19
doncaparker Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 305	The song sounds great! contrary to what others have said, I actually think the lead vocal is where it ought to be in the mix. I wouldn't change a thing. I bet the "sucking in air" sound was a bit of a challenge, but it came off well. I like the choice of going in a slightly different direction from the original re: the phrasing of the wrap-up of the harmonies on the word "girl" in the chorus. The Beatles actually let the harmonies trail off in a more haphazard manner, IIRC. You chose to make the wrap-up more precise. I think that was a wise decision. I really like my MPA Gold, too. Once you put good tubes in it, if you can't make good recordings with it, the gear ain't the problem. Good work!

12th October 2008, 07:24 PM	#20
prslespaul Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 44	Wow im really pleased you guys like it! I am pretty happy with the outcome myself. I mixed and mastered it here in my studio; I never really bothered to take it to any other source due to the fact it was just a sample not really a product of any kind. I guess that explains why some people say to raise vox or just lower the acoustic. No one said anything about the bass track. I have it pretty quiet in the mix because i wanted to keep it more of a acoustic thing. Anyways, I dont think its going to make a huge difference between something like a mullard and a JJ. Its going to sound different but its not really going to change the quality, more characteristics of the sound.. What ever you like more. I think its more of how you learn to use what you have. Anyways, i get my Chameleon 7602 in the mail pretty soon! I'm anxious to hear it as ive heard good things. I will be sure to put some clips up on a new post.

12th October 2008, 10:16 PM	#21
Kontrackz Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 20	Definately let us know how the chameleon goes, I am looking at purchasing one myself.

15th October 2008, 02:35 PM	#22
skiltrip Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New York Posts: 831	Very nice. I had an MPA Gold a few months back. I put JJs in it, and I hated it. Ended up selling it and buying some different pres. After listening to this though, I'm tempted to get another one at some point and put some serious NOS tubes in it like you did. I definitely miss looking at in my rack. It's sharp looking piece of gear. Again, nice job, like the sounds and the performance.

15th October 2008, 02:48 PM	#23
Jay- Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,244	What was the total cost of the MPA Gold with the good tubes? Im saving a bit for an analog synth so can I use cheaper "good tubes" How much for cheaper tubes? __________________ "Give a good musician a washing machine and a stick and he can record a quality song"

15th October 2008, 05:43 PM	#24
mamm7215 Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: BC Canada Posts: 347	I had jj's in mine until 1 channeln went so I got a real mullard. Big diff, surprising. Stock was grainy/noisy. jj was cleaner so better, I thought. Mullard seems to have more fullness/dimension. I'm going to get another for the other channel, too. Maybe my VLA as well. __________________ Strat, Cort C4Z Bass, K-Yairi Semi-acoustic, Sonar 8PE,Drawmer 1968ME, Apex 460 (modded), SP C-1, SM57, Apex 205(modded), Blues Jr. amp, Boss GT-8, Roland D20 for Keys/midi, Yamaha DTXpressII, M-patch2 monitor controller, Konnekt48, SCA n72's, S-Patch Plus patch bay, Adam A7's, various plugs and softs.

15th October 2008, 08:48 PM	#26
river Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 747	Don't overlook US made NOS tubes, I have 3 Pro MPA's with vintage valves in them, get tons of compliments. Look at Westinghouse, Raytheon, Sylvania, GE.....lots of great stuff out there. I have some Mullards too, love them as well.

15th October 2008, 09:44 PM	#27
doncaparker Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 305	Yeah, I put NOS RCA tubes in my MPA Gold. They sound great.

15th October 2008, 10:41 PM	#28
HeavyG Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 795	Feedback First: nice recording. I agree that the capoed Taylor sounds a bit "mando" like...but still crisp and pretty. Someone mentioned spreading it...i agree. It is also a bit dominating in the mix...but it sounds like you have a great raw track to deal with....and THE VOCALS...wow...nicely done. Push those babies up front...FANTASTIC performance all around. Did I say more BASS? Second: I am assuming that since you went into the Mackie 400 this is not a "digital" MPA...right? I want to get the Digital MPA and I was curious if the converters are ok... Either way...bravo! I am a fan...great gear...even better performance. __________________ Nelly Drummer, Vocalist, Project Studio Stunt Pilot “My vocation is more in composition really than anything else - building up harmonies using the guitar, orchestrating the guitar like an army, a guitar army.” Jimmy Page

15th October 2008, 10:52 PM	#29
cornutt Gear addict Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 465	Didn't we have a thread about the Digital MPA about six months ago? As I recall, the net.opinion on the converters was "meh".

15th October 2008, 11:03 PM	#30
prslespaul Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 44	Well I mean regaurdless of the tubes the mpa is a pretty versitle pre. I have to say even with lower classed tubes, like JJ's, you can get some good sounds out of it with the right settings and right mic. I have a pretty wide variety of mics and I though the st77 really made it shine. My nuemann didn't really bark at me, as it is considered to be a better sounding mic to some, I still thought it paired with the mpa well. I can also say my eq and compression settings played a major part in this recording. And like I tell everyone, it's not what gear you have it's how you use it! And thanks again for the complements, I'm gunna bring down the guitars a bit and widen them a bit and repost later on today to see how it sounds on your rigs :-).

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