Steinberg CSX mr816

[ohmsweetohm]

Actually it's funny, I was just daydreaming yesterday about a Tree console with GR pres, GR/Helios EQs and the new 527 comps. Gotta have your dreams...

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm

Actually it's funny, I was just daydreaming yesterday about a Tree console with GR pres, GR/Helios EQs and the new 527 comps. Gotta have your dreams...

Hide the credit card bro

[shanabit]

I think its fair to say that ANYONE looking at this box is looking for an improved AD/DA. Comparing external $1000 or more pres to the ones on the unit is kinda lopsided if you ask me. I would EXPECT my Avalon 737sp to sound better than the pres on the unit.

Why not just compare the pres on the unit with the other I/O boxes you have and also the AD/DA? THAT would be a FAIR comparison. All these other gadgets is just clouding the issue for most as they ARE NOT gonna by a GR at $1000 to go with it, or a speck etc. They are gonna buy this unit and use it for Pres, AD/DA

Lining the pres up on this with a Great River which should be at a diff level is not fair and is def not on equal parity. Thats like me comparing my Specialized Tarmac race bike to the ones at WalMart. Yeah they are both road bikes bbuuuttttt

This is the LOW END, lets not forget that if we can. The guy in the low end is doing good to buy the MR816, let alone add a $1000 pre to it, ya know???

[ohmsweetohm]

Good, then we can agree to set aside all the hype about it being the "best" anything and just concentrate on what it actually is, which is really damn good and a great bargain.

As for my little shoot out, it's just helpful to compare against the expensive stuff to be precise about what's missing. This box is so damn good that if you don't compare it to anything else, you probably won't feel you're missing anything. But I prefer to know the reality of the situation (at least for my taste and purposes). I would not have thought before testing that the 800R would compete on any level, but it does. What I'm hearing in the 816 is particularly something that I don't want to hear on electric guitars. But vocals, acoustic guitar, the tight stereo imagine and fast response on an overhead pair....all great for the 816.

[shanabit]

Pier, you should line up the I/Os that you have and make a little grid comparison for everyone as to the PRES, AD, DA on each. Rate them 1,2 ,3 if you would.
That would be very helpful for everyone since you have all three

Steinberg MR816
RME FF800
Mackie 800R

[ohmsweetohm]

Originally Posted by shanabit

Pier, you should line up the I/Os that you have and make a little grid comparison for everyone as to the PRES, AD, DA on each. Rate them 1,2 ,3 if you would.
That would be very helpful for everyone since you have all three

Steinberg MR816
RME FF800
Mackie 800R

For now I'll put up 3 mixes, one on each. People can judge for themselves. It actually points out one limitation of the 816 in that if I wanted to run its pres through the FF I could only do 2 channels. The test I ran had 3 channels - Stereo guitar and 1 vocal.

Consider that they offer such different features that it's really not and either/or situation. If you have multiple analog devices that you want to use when mixing, it more or less has to be a FF - also there is the advantage of totalmix, Digicheck, pro formatted S/PDIF as well as the clock-washer. If you want DACs, that rules out the 800R (ADC only). The point being that you can probably make your decision based on features with the knowledge that the sound quality differences between the converters isn't night and day between any of them. The only major difference I would say is that the FF only offers 4 pres and I really think they are below the others in quality. And I did notice the difference in the DACs between the FF and the 816.

Myself, I've decided that I prefer to have all 3. They all offer something unique. I think it's pretty definitive that if you're only going to have 1 that the 816 is the best value for the money. In all honesty I probably wouldn't buy a FF today. If I had a bunch of primo outboard gear (well, I have some , I would be looking at either an Aurora 8 or a Rosetta 8. If I had to own EITHER the 800R or 816 that's a no contest because you probably want some kind of DACs. If it's between owning 2 816s or 1 816 and 1 800R - well my choice is the latter. I'll probably be looking to upgrade the FF at some point, but the plethora of I/O and the FW stability also really serve my mobile needs. And I also need a lot of other stuff so I'll probably looking toward mics before I even think about the FF.

Sorry, it's not as organized as a chart but I think the info's there as far as my opinion goes .

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm

What I'm hearing in the 816 is particularly something that I don't want to hear on electric guitars.

I can honestly say I DIDNT like the sound of the electrics on the Steinberg site on the video demo where the band is playing. Something harsh in the middle/high mids to me.
Could have been a crappy amp, who knows

[ohmsweetohm]

Originally Posted by shanabit

I can honestly say I DIDNT like the sound of the electrics on the Steinberg site on the video demo where the band is playing. Something harsh in the middle/high mids to me.
Could have been a crappy amp, who knows

Well, it's a subtle influence but it's moving away from the sound I would want on any electric guitar. The last thing I want is anything even slightly tinny or buzzy in the high mids and on EG I don't need or want the extended air frequencies. Really what I want is low-mid punch and that's not what these pres do.

It's not a make or break thing. A good/bad sound will still be just that. But it doesn't help.

[Heartfelt]

For the life of me, I can't figure out who is creating hype and spiking the kool
aide. It seems like no one can say (not referring to me as your opinion was
already set before I came on the 816 scene) they like the box and that they
like it more than something more expensive. If you like Mackie more, cool. You
made your point.

It's as if you don't rip the unit, your on kool-aide. What is up with that guys?
For the record, any "reporting" I made about others calling it a top shelf unit
wasn't to class it against neves or great river pres. I believe what the other
users inferred is that it has excellent AD/DA and for console pres, they rock.
WTF is so bad about that? Go figure.

Nobody said it was the BEST anything. However, it is a helluva deal at 6 bills.

Honestly, I appreciate the back and forth as it is causing me to listen more
closely. Having others listen in different environments is a big plus, IMO.
Thanks for the openness and honesty.

-----------------------------------------

Moving on, I did hear some the the pointedness you referred to. It popped
up as I began tracking a very soft song with breathy vocals on my mic
with it set on it's brighter setting. I wanted to find a way to run the mic
through the Yam pres, insert my FMR PBC-6 but I didn't have a "Y" cable
with XLR ends. That would have rounded it off a bit, but oh well.

Being that I couldn't, I went back to the Daking, through the PBC using the
darker setting on my mic. This week, in my personal excitement, I had
planned to sell the Daking and now I won't even consider it. On these
vocals, I found a strength for it. I, for one, am indeed a learner and I
learned to not make a judgment before trying EVERY thing imaginable.

This has been my experience, this week.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Previously, I recorded some test vocals. They were a bit more upbeat and
not breathy, in nature. I found some things I liked on both pres
(Yam/Daking) However, my Audiofire is at the office, where it will stay. It
is not welcome back in the studio. The conversion is way, way different.

Anyhoo, I figured I would post some vocal clips to let peeps hear what I am getting out of the unit.
#1 - James on normal setting into the Daking, into the Yam Insert to the AD
#2 - James on normal setting into the Yam pres and AD
#3 - James with bright setting into the Daking-insert on Yam to AD
#4 - James with bright setting into the Yam pre and AD

Feel free to pick them apart. I don't mind the criticism. I hope to learn for others input and point of view. I would love to hear other's clips.


Rob

[ohmsweetohm]

Dude, nothing that I've said was directed at anything specific you've said. I really had no memory that you used the term "top shelf" I swear. Everyone from Yamaha themselves to others on GS to the SOS review have placed this box on a pedestal on par with high-end pres. Yamaha actually did say it was the "best". I'm just putting it through its paces and discovering that it's not quite like that, although it's still very good.

I'm sorry, I really figured that I hadn't heard your mic or your Daking so I didn't see how you could think I would be criticizing your ears (which I wasn't). I've said all along that I think these pres work well in certain applications. I just figured your needs fit that bill.

I just got this box so this is all new learning for me. It's not meant to be hammering the point or ripping the unit. It's just figuring out what it's going to be good for. And in my case I needed to make a decision about selling the Mackie.

Anyway, I see that I accidentally quoted you. I didn't mean to. Sorry about that.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm

Dude, nothing that I've said was directed at anything specific you've said. I really had no memory that you used the term "top shelf" I swear. Everyone from Yamaha themselves to others on GS to the SOS review have placed this box on a pedestal on par with high-end pres. Yamaha actually did say it was the "best". I'm just putting it through its paces and discovering that it's not quite like that, although it's still very good.

I'm sorry, I really figured that I hadn't heard your mic or your Daking so I didn't see how you could think I would be criticizing your ears (which I wasn't). I've said all along that I think these pres work well in certain applications. I just figured your needs fit that bill.

I just got this box so this is all new learning for me. It's not meant to be hammering the point or ripping the unit. It's just figuring out what it's going to be good for. And in my case I needed to make a decision about selling the Mackie.

Anyway, I see that I accidentally quoted you. I didn't mean to. Sorry about that.

No biggie, I understand what you are saying. I am learning too. I wasn't really taking anything personal.

Don't let me dissuade you. I appreciate your investigating and comments. I would love to hear some comparable clips when you have time and to hear any comments on these.

Thank you for sharing

[ohmsweetohm]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

No biggie, I understand what you are saying. I am learning too. I wasn't really taking anything personal.

Don't let me dissuade you. I appreciate your investigating and comments. I would love to hear some comparable clips when you have time and to hear any comments on these.

Thank you for sharing

Cool. It's all good. I have a 2yr old and a 3yr old so I get interrupted a lot and I'm basically confined to headphones after 8pm. I wanted to get my files posted tonight but it looks like it will have to wait until tomorrow. I'll definitely check yours out. Actually a tube LDC is probably next on my list and I'm definitely interested in Beez.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm

Cool. It's all good. I have a 2yr old and a 3yr old so I get interrupted a lot and I'm basically confined to headphones after 8pm. I wanted to get my files posted tonight but it looks like it will have to wait until tomorrow. I'll definitely check yours out. Actually a tube LDC is probably next on my list and I'm definitely interested in Beez.

LOL... YOU are a busy guy, my friend.

[VicD]

Hate to go OT, but what would you guys that have experience with the MR816 recommend for recording mainly drums, the MR816X or MR816CSX? Thoughts. TIA.

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by VicD

Hate to go OT, but what would you guys that have experience with the MR816 recommend for recording mainly drums, the MR816X or MR816CSX? Thoughts. TIA.

They are BOTH the exact same unit. Only diff is the MRX doesnt have the Comp/EQ channel strip. You can use ANY of your plugins in your DAW for that while recording so its not that big of a deal. Id save the money and get the MR816 and use the internal plugins fro COMP and EQ . Well, thats what I did. I ordered the MR816CSX and then realized I was paying $300 for a channel Comp/EQ. Wasnt worth the price to me.

[crazylemon]

MAybe this helps:

I was looking into similar gear for almost 2 years... when i ALMOST decided to go for presonus.. this unit came out...
To make a long story short.. i went for RME Fireface 400.. and i LOOOOVE the damn thing!!! I read a lot about it but its true.. it has never let me down in ANY way..good pre's good firmware (bit oldish okay but it works like a charm) and GOOD A/D..D/A conversion.

Go for the FF400

P.s. i dont have any financial/economical stocks or whatsoever in RME. They just sold me the product i needed!

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by crazylemon

MAybe this helps:

I was looking into similar gear for almost 2 years... when i ALMOST decided to go for presonus.. this unit came out...
To make a long story short.. i went for RME Fireface 400.. and i LOOOOVE the damn thing!!! I read a lot about it but its true.. it has never let me down in ANY way..good pre's good firmware (bit oldish okay but it works like a charm) and GOOD A/D..D/A conversion.

Go for the FF400

P.s. i dont have any financial/economical stocks or whatsoever in RME. They just sold me the product i needed!

You must be lost as this thread is about the STEINBERG MR816CSX

Good bait and switch attempt though You should start a new FF400 is da bomb thread and try not to take a crap here

IF you can get me a FF400 for $550 Ill take it. Dont think you can though

[Amun Ra]

I've got my eyes on the CSX mr816 as well. I would like to know if it's possible to set up some kind of talkback with this system? If it is how do you go about it?

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by Amun Ra

I've got my eyes on the CSX mr816 as well. I would like to know if it's possible to set up some kind of talkback with this system? If it is how do you go about it?

IF your using Cubase then you can use the CONTROL ROOM feature to set up talkback. If not using Cubase Im guessing you would use the MR's software features. Someone who has the unit will need to chime in here

[58lespaul]

How pronounced this this unpleasant mid-range thing you guys are talking about? I use Vox amps so you can see why I would be concerned... Would guitar center let me compare this box versus my FSP?

[JeffE]

Originally Posted by 58lespaul

How pronounced this this unpleasant mid-range thing you guys are talking about? I use Vox amps so you can see why I would be concerned... Would guitar center let me compare this box versus my FSP?

I can't comment on any perceived unpleasant midrange in the MR816, as I haven't used mine to record amped electric guitar yet. However, I doubt it's anything significant for the average joe. I suspect your mic/mic placement/room would have a much greater impact.

Does your local GC have an MR816CSX or MR816X? Mine doesn't. I'm sure you could order one and then return it if you still like your FSP better.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by 58lespaul

How pronounced this this unpleasant mid-range thing you guys are talking about? I use Vox amps so you can see why I would be concerned... Would guitar center let me compare this box versus my FSP?

Keep in mind that those comments were in comparison to a Great River. That
tendency won't keep you from making a record... that is for sure. I believe
my Daking has more midrange than the GR. It is just a flavor preference. This
thread contains the first complaints I have seen on the pres.

If you listen to my clips, you can at least hear the difference between the
Daking and these pres. Maybe Pier will have time to post other clips. In any
case, there is no disaster here, just flavor preferences.

I only noticed a bump on breathy vocals. If I hadn't had the Daking, I could
have overcome the issue with mic choice and placement. Pretty simple.
Rob

[ohmsweetohm]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

Keep in mind that those comments were in comparison to a Great River. That
tendency won't keep you from making a record... that is for sure. I believe
my Daking has more midrange than the GR. It is just a flavor preference. This
thread contains the first complaints I have seen on the pres.

If you listen to my clips, you can at least hear the difference between the
Daking and these pres. Maybe Pier will have time to post other clips. In any
case, there is no disaster here, just flavor preferences.

I only noticed a bump on breathy vocals. If I hadn't had the Daking, I could
have overcome the issue with mic choice and placement. Pretty simple.
Rob

As I mentioned earlier, it's not a make or break thing. A good sound is a good sound. The 816 just leans is a direction that isn't the most preferable for electric guitar. Actually the thing with the high-mids isn't even the biggest issue with electric guitar. It's more about the fact that some other pres have more low mid punch to them.

I'll go this far, if you're particularly concerned about electric guitars and your main concern is the sound of the pres/AD, then I would definitely try to compare the 800R and or the Digimax96k before making a purchase. Since it's discontinued you probably won't be able to hear the 800R, but the digimax96k would be an interesting comparison too.

[shanabit]

Digimax96k is discoed as well

[ohmsweetohm]

Originally Posted by shanabit

Digimax96k is discoed as well

LOL...oh well. Maybe just get an 816 and use the rebate money toward one channel for EG with a little more beef.

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm

LOL...oh well. Maybe just get an 816 and use the rebate money toward one channel for EG with a little more beef.

Thats what your GR is for, buh dum bum

No, really, I guy like yourself should have a rack of pres and a separate AD/DA convertor box

I actually was looking for the DIGIMAX 96 till I found it was done

I would LOVE to have an Aurora 16 with 16 hardware pres of my chosing or an SSL Alphalink with hardware pres. It aint gonna happen though.

[ohmsweetohm]

Ok. talk about anticlimactic .

I don't think I can stress enough that I'm NOT a singer, never claimed to be, and that this is purely for the purposes of evaluating sound. If I had a cat I would've just recorded myself swinging it around by the tail but this was all I had to work with.

With that in mind I did NO processing of these files whatsoever aside from literally a drop of reverb from a PCM91 and some light automation to try to balance the levels. I did my best to level match but it's three independent atrocities so of course there are differences.

If you feel so inclined you can slap some compression on these and it will highlight the differences more by bringing up the low level material.

Oops - the files didn't attach - working on that now...

Personally I was surprised at how good all the boxes sounded. It's easier to hear the differences on the vocal when it's solo'd but it's so damn painful to listen to . I can put them up if anyone really wants.

Listen to the fret buzz on the guitar to hear the high-mid thing I'm talking about. It gets a little thin and phasey on the 816.

Source = vocal damage done on 414XLS, straight into pres.
guitar is DI, left side is the rare earth pickup, right side is the saddle pick up.

On the fireface file it's the Great River on vocals and the Specks on DIs. And I have to say, I think my favorite sound on the whole thing is the guitar on the Specks. Those DIs are just fantastic. I paid around $500 each for them used and it was worth every penny. Jensen transformers on the outputs.

These are dithered 16bit 44k wav files

[ohmsweetohm]

Originally Posted by shanabit

Thats what your GR is for, buh dum bum

No, really, I guy like yourself should have a rack of pres and a separate AD/DA convertor box

I actually was looking for the DIGIMAX 96 till I found it was done

I would LOVE to have an Aurora 16 with 16 hardware pres of my chosing or an SSL Alphalink with hardware pres. It aint gonna happen though.

Yeah, the Aurora's a bit overpriced in my estimation. Not that much better than the Fireface (which is also overpriced - in 2004 I paid $1250 which is what it ought to be).

The GR really isn't a "beef" pre. It's really more of a "top" thing - like the MR816 only better. I would actually turn to the Specks before the GR for bass, kick, toms and probably most electric guitar as well.

[shanabit]

I was expecting to hear more beef out of the GR.

Interesting. The 800R had more low body than the MR816 but the volume on the MR Vox was lower which may be messin with my ears.

I was waiting on you to whale on the chorus in good old Guns and Roses fashion.

I dont think any of those sound bad to be honest. I dont know if the GR is $1000 improvement in my mind

Thanks for the clips

I almost got the Speck Sum for my keys but the price, ouch!!! Ended up with an Ashly LX308B instead. Happy with it

[ohmsweetohm]

Yeah, sorry I tried to even out the balances. Again, with the vocals solo'd you really hear the difference. I agree it's hard to hear what the GR is doing in this example but if you pump it up, EQ it, compress it, etc like normal, you see a very clear difference. Maybe I'll post just the GR and the 816 vocals solo'd.

The interesting thing about comparing the DIs is that you aren't getting any variation in mic positioning. You know how it is with acoustic guitar, you lean 1/2 an inch one way and the whole tone changes.