Steinberg CSX mr816

[KingDiamond]

Originally Posted by metalfan8806

bump+++

I am very interested in whether or not the RME's converters are superior over the Steinberg/Yamaha unit???

The RME and Steinberg both use AKM AK5385 A/D chips.

[ohmsweetohm]

I'll see what I can do on the files. Depending on when the 816 arrives I might have to wait until next week. I do live gigs on the weekend.

It might just be because I've had it so long, but I'm not too thrilled with the D/A on the FF at this point. I'm planning on getting a KRK Ergo anyway but it will be nice if the 816 is a step up in the meantime.

I see myself keeping both units. I need the sheer number of pres for live recording but I need something to accept a balanced line level input for external pres in the studio. The "High Gain" input on the FF is awesome. It can really handle the Great River at full throttle which a standard +4 can't.

Anyway, I can record a Taylor 612C through a 414XLS into the Great River. It sounds amazing. Any differences in the A/Ds should be pretty obvious.

I also have an Onyx 800R which I'm very curious to compare the pres and converters against the 816. I need 24 inputs for live recording and I was thinking I'd sell the 800R and have 2 816s + the FF but now I'm reading that there's some issue with zero latency with more than one unit on the 816s. That's really a drag. The 800R has no fuss hardware line outputs that are great for running in front of a PA system.

I might be able to use totalmix (RME) to bounce back the signal to the 816s outputs with minimal latency and just run them in stand alone mode. I dunno....we'll see. If the pres are all that it'd be nice to have the sound quality upgrade across 16 channels.

[redroom]

Originally Posted by KingDiamond

The RME and Steinberg both use AKM AK5385 A/D chips.

The chip maybe the same but the MR816 has a superior analogue stage and better power supply

[ohmsweetohm]

Well, the MR816 has an external PS which is a plus as far as I'm concerned. Certainly been known to help with pres.

Interesting to know it's the same chip. Must be a damn good chip if Yamaha would use the same thing that RME chose 5 years earlier.

I'll say this, my FF has been dragged all over. I've had it since 2004 and it's still just purring along.

[ohmsweetohm]

So, of course...Sweetwater is back-ordered. Any day....any week...(sigh).

[Sanskrit]

Thought I'd post up some thoughts on the MR816X. I purchased the box about three weeks ago. I've been recording mostly vox and acoustic guitar through it, but I've also used the hiZ input for bass and elec. guitar. My benchmarks are nothin' to write home to momma about, but I imagine they're sorta stock lowender stuff: 1010LT, Soundcraft 200B preamps and a Behringer Vamp thingy -I've been using this as a DI. The MR is, of course, a definite step up. Generally, the sound stage is more open -wider, (um) deeper. I can hear reverb tails and compressor settings much more clearly. I've spent some time AB'ing the pre's against the 200B. The 200's seem to have more bottom -they sound "rounder," maybe "warmer." The MR's have more high end detail, more focus in the mids and more air on top. I recently recorded a full project using just the MR. On similar projects, singer-song writer acoustic stuff, I've found myself reaching for a fair amount of high shelf eq. Not with the MR, just a little bit of high pass roll offs. Not surprisingly, the hiZ input has been a great addition as well- bass and guitar both sound punchier, and more focused. I'm not sure how the unit is calibrated -if they're setting it up with 0 at -18 or -12. So far, I'm feeling like I can track hotter with the MR than I'm used to. With the LT I would really try to stay right around -18dbFS, but with the MR I'm feeling pretty comfortable with what I'm hearing with a target of -12. The unit set up easily. I made sure to get a FW card with a TI chipset. Its the only card on the PCI buss. I'm running XP SP2 in 32 bit "mode." The MR editor software isn't super intuitive, but its not rocket science either. ...GS has been a good place for me to learn about new gear, so I though I'd share.
Cheers.

[Heartfelt]

Thanks. Good news to see while waiting on mine.

[ohmsweetohm]

Mine came today. haven't opened it yet.

[shanabit]

Mines coming next week MR816X

Im hoping for a MAJOR improvement over my MOTU828MKii

[shadyru]

Cant wait for your thioughts!!

Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm

Mine came today. haven't opened it yet.

[ohmsweetohm]

Thanks .

I find it interesting to log first impressions since often after you get settled with a piece you can forget what a pain in the ass it was to get going . Information that can be valuable to those considering a purchase.

On that note:

I never cracked open the software. Might as well leave it sealed for a potential future sale. Just downloaded the current stuff from Steinberg.

My box was brand spanking new. I had to wait a couple of days for Sweetwater to take delivery, but it still needed the firmware upgrade. Be sure to load the Yamaha firewire (2 words I hate seeing next to each other) driver first.

Otherwise software install went smoothly. One bonus is that the ASIO driver for this unit offers double the maximum latency as the FF. So for mixing that = more plugs. I haven't tested how low I can get the latency yet. I guess I will eventually, but aside from MIDI it's pretty academic for me. I generally keep latency at whatever the maximum is available, and use zero latency for monitoring and recording latency compensation in Nuendo. Then I never have to think about it again.

The unit doesn't ship with the operation manual in paper form. All the complaints you're seeing about how much the manual sucks is because.....it's not the manual. It's a Getting Started booklet. The actual manual is a PDF. I need paper when it comes to manuals so this is a bummer but whatever, it's only 56 pages. Not too bad to print.

My set up is that I'm using the 816 as my primary interface. I'm running a PCM91 via SPDIF and I'm using a Drawmer 1969 as an External FX in Nuendo (one of Nuendo's coolest features). This means that I can send to the Drawmer via the 816 analog outputs but I have to take the return via my fireface because I need balanced line inputs and I didn't pay $1500 for a compressor so that I could be forced to go through mic pres on the way back in. Anyone using analog gear in mixing should consider this. This box is really an ITB device by design. That includes analog summing. The only way in that isn't through mic pres is unbalanced and there's only 2 of those. Not very pro.

Anyway, I'm running a lightpipe connection from the FF to the 816 to get the Drawmer back in.

I just figured out that the same knob that controls the main outputs also controls ALL the analog outputs. I'm guessing/hoping that I will find a way around this, but I need to run off and print the manual.

And so far my Lex doesn't see clock/signal over the coax.

I'll Edit this post as I discover solutions/dead ends.

>>EDIT>>>

Ok. I got the ADAT connection from the FF working. Master Vol does seem to only affect all analog outputs. So the answer is to calibrate it once and never touch it. I have to turn on control room in Nuendo and start using it. I never bothered before with Totalmix. It's a drag not having totalmix to show me levels both coming and going.

I haven't done a careful A/B with the FF yet, but just my overall first impressions on using the 816 for my D/A after using nothing but the FF in my room is that the sound is tighter, more detailed, but possibly less depth (not sure about that one). The low end in particular sounds tighter and I feel like I can more accurately hear pan settings. Again, it's just a first impression but it feels like an improvement. The FF might do better at lower levels though. I feel like there's more of a difference in the balance between softer and louder levels on the 816. That's a weird one though because with the FF I normally am sending a full strength signal from Nuendo and then attenuating for the speakers in Totalmix, whereas now I'm lowering the level in Nuendo.

I got the Lex to lock via SPDIF but I still can't get signal to it. I'm not sure what to do about that. It wouldn't lock if the connection was wrong. I know the Lex works perfectly in a SPDIF loop on the FF so it's not a bad setting on that end. I'm set to ADAT6+SPDIF Coax. I could rig it through the FF but this should be working. Anyone out there successfully outputing SPDIF from an 816?

>>>>>>EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ok, I got the S/PDIF signal going - the second adjust knob is the digital output level (RTFM). It didn't matter though because there were clocking problems. The PCM91 doesn't have WC, it locks to the S/PDIF signal. Anyway the clock was pretty obviously drifting. The PCM91 also read the format as consumer S/PDIF which as I understand is only 20bit, but that's not even the problem. I don't know if this is the case but it sounds like the 816 doesn't use a Phase Lock Loop to reclock incoming digital signals (which the FF does).

So in the end I couldn't use the S/PDIF anyway. I guess it might work if you could send WC to the other device. I don't know. I don't think I'll ever know. My solution was simply to create a loop via ADAT to the FF and use the FF S/PDIF for the PCM91. Ideally I'd like to use the 816 S/PDIF to output to a KRK Ergo, but...we'll see. It's one thing to be knocking my reverb send down to 20bit, it's another thing to do that to my monitor output. I have to put a bitscope on the signal and make sure that's even what's happening.

Conclusion, with a LOT of help from the Fireface I'm making it work.

I have to test recording next. If this thing isn't worlds better in terms of ease of use then I'm just gonna bag it as an interface and go back to using the FF. I'll probably end up doing that anyway. It's insane, I'm basically still using the FF for almost all of my I/O during mixing. If all I need from the 816 are the D/As for the master out....I can just send that from the FF via ADAT and run the 816 in stand alone mode. I'm pretty sure that's where I'm going to wind up. I've had a couple of drop outs which never happened with the FF.

When I get some samples recorded I'll put them up.

>>>>>EDIT>>>>>

New development. The unit doesn't seem to store the digital master output level when powering down (it defaults to off). This is a pain because I'm using the PCM91 as a permanent FX send. I want to calibrate the level and leave it. I have to see if there's anything I'm doing wrong. This is a particular pain because....I don't even want to able to adjust this in the first place. Digital outs should just be wide open all the time.

[Heartfelt]

I got mine up and running as a primary interface in record time. I spent
time, over an hour with low buffer settings, playing with and mixing some
songs. I didn't have a hiccup, a drop or any other kind of issue... nadda. It
worked flawlessly.

I came from an Audiofire 4 and noticed an immediate difference. The low
end was tighter and more defined. It also had an extended top and
seemingly, lots of space.

I then did some a/b between the pres and my Daking single, using my
Beesneez James. Surprisingly, I really like the pres. They are smooth, warm
and yet, open... more so than the Daking (to my ears). It has a little less
thickness than the Daking. Their smoothness also highlighted the mid
action in the Daking. On my vocal, I think I preferred the MR's pres. I was
able to use a setting in my modified James that gives more top and
extends the bottom. On the Daking, it got funky in the high mids when
doing so.

This unit rocks.
Rob

[shadyru]

Pier and Rob thanks keep the info coming as mine is still on back order. I was hoping to hook up my behringer v verb to this through spdif. And possibly a distressor unbalanced to the inputs...not sure about that one that might just stay with my brother.

And then hoping to hook up to the fireface when doing drums at my brothers so Pier all your thoughts are very helpful thanks so much!

[SANDS]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

I got mine up and running as a primary interface in record time. I spent
time, over an hour with low buffer settings, playing with and mixing some
songs. I didn't have a hiccup, a drop or any other kind of issue... nadda. It
worked flawlessly.

I came from an Audiofire 4 and noticed an immediate difference. The low
end was tighter and more defined. It also had an extended top and
seemingly, lots of space.

I then did some a/b between the pres and my Daking single, using my
Beesneez James. Surprisingly, I really like the pres. They are smooth, warm
and yet, open... more so than the Daking (to my ears). It has a little less
thickness than the Daking. Their smoothness also highlighted the mid
action in the Daking. On my vocal, I think I preferred the MR's pres. I was
able to use a setting in my modified James that gives more top and
extends the bottom. On the Daking, it got funky in the high mids when
doing so.

This unit rocks.
Rob

Sorry for the confusion, but the a/b was the mr816 pre's against the daking with the audiofire?

[ohmsweetohm]

That's cool you like the pres. I did some mixing last night and it was easier working with 816 DACs than the Fireface. I still have to see if it translates as well, but in general I was able to make decisions faster and stick with them. The stereo image is really pretty tight.

I didn't have any drop outs while working last night.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by SANDS

Sorry for the confusion, but the a/b was the mr816 pre's against the daking with the audiofire?

Comparison was:
James -> Daking -> MR816 Conversion

vs

James -> MR816 Pre and Conversion

Sorry I wasn't clear.

[ohmsweetohm]

How were you connecting the Daking to the 816? Were you going unbalanced through the inserts in the back? Any other path and you were also going through the 816 pres.

[Heartfelt]

Yes, I used the insert on the back with no issues. I had a lot of noise and rumble but it went away when I turned off the dryer in the laundry room.

The Daking did its thing, just fine. It is, however, up for sale after last night's adventure. There wasn't enough positive differences to keep it. Now a Vintech X73i with EQ would be a different story.

I really liked my voice on the Modified James into the Steiny.

[ohmsweetohm]

Interesting. I haven't heard that Daking, but I've used older models that were fantastic. Pretty surprising.

[Heartfelt]

With the James on the normal darker setting, the Daking was fine. However, I love the alteration on it and with that setting, the mids on the Daking do something weird. On the Steiny, it was very natural.

I sent some files to Shanabit to verify what I was hearing and he took the words out of my mouth.

[ohmsweetohm]

Just checked my first mix using the 816 DACs and sure enough it translated very well. Overall I'm impressed with the DACs. I'd like more depth, but ultimately I was able to make decisions a lot faster and than with the FF and those decisions translated a lot better. Nice bonus to go along with the pres.

[BringItBack]

Anybody using an external clock with the MR816? If so, what clock and how does it improve/affect the sound?

[ohmsweetohm]

A decent converter isn't actually improved by external clocking. That being said, I'm not sure how the clocking is in this box. It clearly doesn't reclock incoming digital signals which limits its usefulness, but the tight image the DACs provide would imply that its own clock is probably pretty good.

[Heartfelt]

Thanks for the confirmation Ohm. I enjoyed the new DA as well.

Off topic... a fellow WIX user here, can you tell me what settings with which you create your MP3's for use there? I am having problems. I am trying to render from Reaper with Lame and having no luck. A month ago, I got some files working but I can't remember how I did it to save my life and my new files don't play.

You can see my issue, if interested, at New Destiny Christian Fellowship, on my media page. In the first player, the first few files play and the last doesn't. I would appreciate a hint if you have one.

[ohmsweetohm]

Man, some of my MP3s are more than a decade old . They were made in all kinds of different codecs. One difference might be that I only use one file per player. Otherwise I don't know.

Your site looks great. I see you paid to get rid of the Wix stuff. I'm using Hover.com to get my URL on the free version. If they let me just buy the code I would but I can't stand taking on another on-going monthly bill.

EDIT - FWIW I'm making the majority of my mp3s in Nuendo, which uses....the one that's not LAME.....farfignugen or whatever it is .

[Heartfelt]

I hear ya on the bill thing.

Thanks anyway.

[hoongern]

I'm considering getting one of these units, but have a couple of queries

1) I'm a cubase user. Now, you may think this is the oddest request, but is it possible to run cubase + MR816 *without* the Integration, but using the MR Editor app? I do realize that many buy the unit for the integration, but I'm just wondering about this.

2) I've read that the pres can't be bypassed. Would plugging in an external pre into the MR816 pres defeat the purpose? (Anyway, hearing about how good the pres are on this unit makes me hope i won't have to get external pres soon) Just for reference, I'd plan on using pres such as Milennia HV-3C / True Systems P2ANALOG

3) Can DSP be applied to output channels? I.e. could I run the sweet spot morphing channel on outputs 1&2?

4) Just want to confirm that there is no bass management DSP built into this unit. My monitors are currently sat+sub (bluesky mediadesk sats with a different sub) - and I use my E-MU 1616m's internal crossover to split the frequency.

5) Is the only difference between the CSX and X versions the availability of the Sweet spot morphing channel strips? (i.e., otherwise they sound just the same?)

Thanks!

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by hoongern

I'm considering getting one of these units, but have a couple of queries

1) I'm a cubase user. Now, you may think this is the oddest request, but is it possible to run cubase + MR816 *without* the Integration, but using the MR Editor app? I do realize that many buy the unit for the integration, but I'm just wondering about this.

2) I've read that the pres can't be bypassed. Would plugging in an external pre into the MR816 pres defeat the purpose? (Anyway, hearing about how good the pres are on this unit makes me hope i won't have to get external pres soon) Just for reference, I'd plan on using pres such as Milennia HV-3C / True Systems P2ANALOG

3) Can DSP be applied to output channels? I.e. could I run the sweet spot morphing channel on outputs 1&2?

4) Just want to confirm that there is no bass management DSP built into this unit. My monitors are currently sat+sub (bluesky mediadesk sats with a different sub) - and I use my E-MU 1616m's internal crossover to split the frequency.

5) Is the only difference between the CSX and X versions the availability of the Sweet spot morphing channel strips? (i.e., otherwise they sound just the same?)

Thanks!

Not being a cubase user, I can't comment on everything.

1) No idea

2) You can bypass the pres on 1 & 2 by way on the insert feature. I have done it and observe no adverse affect.

3) No comment as I don't need any DSP for tracking.

4) Don't see any Acoustic type DSP. Their site tells you exactly what is included.

5) The only difference is the plugins(DSP). I decided to save the cash as I have some great plugs.
Rob

[ohmsweetohm]

You can use the MR Editor to set up the box for stand alone operation. I don't think you can continuously run it along side another FW interface. I mean, maybe you can but I wouldn't advise it. Basically just set it up to do what you need and then forget the FW connection.

No bass management.

Like Rob said you can bypass the pres by going through the inserts. This is an unbalanced connection only though. The good news is that it is truly right in front of the ADC.

I haven't messed with the DSP yet but I think the answer is yes.

Yes, the "morphing" whatever is the only difference. They both have the reverb and the hardware is identical (different color knobs is all).

BTW, I am a Nuendo user and I wasn't all that impressed by the "integration". I guess if you plan on using the plug-ins that might make a difference, but the "quick connect"? Eh. I guess if you're setting up a new project with 16 or 24 inputs or whatever, but I was already using routing templates. Didn't really mean much to me. I'll be happier and feel safer using the RME ASIO driver.

[PandaFOH]

Sorry to interrupt the thread (I have been following it for a few days hoping someone would comment) I would like to know:

Regarding the pres: external i/o with FX.

I keep reading that the pres are clean enough to route FX through. Frankly that goes against my better judgment - but I would like to hear from someone who has routed several higher end reverbs through them (Bricasti, Lexicon, TC etc) and could comment on the difference (if any) between the actual insert on the unit (1+2) versus routing the fx through the rest of ad/da.

thanks fellas appreciate any insight you might care to share.