New to recording drums HELP!! What equipment to buy?

[dave_w]

Hey everyone,
I've been recording for years.. but simultaneous multitrack recording is a relatively new concept to me. SO! I'm looking to buy whatever I may need to make my drums sounds as good as they can on a bit of a budget.

I know that it's hard to not talk about what mics to buy.. but I'm more curious what I need connected to the mics.

Currently I'm just running 7 drum mics into a Fast Track Ultra 8R which is running into ProTools on my Mac.

I know that I missing something in there. (Different Preamp? Some Analog EQ?)

Teach me!

[tifftunes]

If you have a good room, and can separate drums from everything else, and treat the whole kit as ONE instrument, the best method is 1 or 2 overheads (large or small diaphram condenser respectively), kick and snare mics. The snare mic can even be placed underneath, since its purpose is for increased definition.

However, my method is kick mic, plus ONE or TWO OH mics. But that only sounds good of the room sounds good.

When treating a kit as several separate instruments (i.e. mic'ing each shell, hi-hat etc), it is difficult to avoid comb filtering. That said, you can mic each piece separately, and run through a mic pre with transformers for best result. My two preferred solutions in this case are a vintage Ampex tube/transformer mic pre (mine is a 354, which is two channels), or a Focusrite ISA428, which has 4 mic pres through transformers. Both are clean enough to "stack" well, and will give an excellent "sound" that won't dominate or add much color (unless pushed to do so).

I used to use a Mackie 1402 mixer, and it sounded fine as well. I also use my Presonus Firestudio's 8 mic pres and get more than acceptable results.

Gear is mostly a matter of taste and/or preference. Much can be accomplished with simple, low-to-mid priced gear. It has more to do with presentation (players, and properly set-up instruments), and engineering /mixing skills... Once the latter is "near perfect," the gear matters less...

Hope this helps. If not, ask more specific questions for more specific answers.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

first and foremost to making good drum sounds is making the drums sound as good as possible before they hit any microphone.

Position the drums in a room where they sound best. If possible try to treat the room acoustically so you don't have slapback, echoes, standing waves, boominess, tinny-ness, etc. Usually packing blankets, auralex foam, cds, blankets, drapes, etc work well. You could go on for days about expensive/inexpensive ways to treat rooms for drums (or any source). I prefer keeping a "live" sound with as few standing waves as possible for drums. But that's personal preference.

Take your time fine-tuning the entire drumset A Drumdial and new heads are a great investment. Play unmiked try to sound as good as you can without the help of mics and other equipment. Remember mics pick up what they hear they can't pickup or add what doesn't exist. this is why tuning of the room and drums "together" is crucial to getting good recordings.

Honestly, I don't think analog EQ, compression, gating, better preamps or mics are usually the issue to getting good drum sounds. A lot of bad drum sounds are from bad drummers playing poorly tuned kits in bad sounding rooms. The most expensive recording equipment in the world won't make anyone sound better than they actually are, in fact it usually reveals more of the bad stuff.

A lot of people are overwhelmed when trying to track various instruments the best way to sound good is to actually sound good.

I would invest in treating your room and spending time tuning and playing then into mics then to preamps, then into effects.

Unfortunately a lot of it will just come with experience.

If you want suggestions on mics there are many nice mics available a lot of it depends on the sound you are aiming for. If you want more of a natural reproduction I like the Audio-Technica and Sennheiser mics, if you want more of a progressive/contemporary EQ'd sound go with Audix mics, if you want a nice warm neutral sound go with Shure mics. Overhead mics are also important to invest in. Here on the forum in the low end the two most popular that have been suggested to me (and I tried both and these people are being honest when they say they are good) are the Audio Technica ATM450 and the KEL HM1. The Kel's have a nice darker character making them good for all kinds of music, the A/T have a brighter sound with a nice punchy low-mid perfect for POP and ROCK.

Here's how I mic my set now:
2 Audio Technica ATM450 overheads
(in X/Y, ORTF, or Spaced Pair)
1 Audio Technica ATM250DE on kick
(using an earthworks kickpad on the dynamic element)
1 Audio Technica ATM650 on snare batter
3 Sennheiser e604 on toms
(not superb mics but they do their job and pretty well)
1 Sterling Audio ST79 FOK mic

keep in mind that's just the go-to sound I've come to like and it may or may not suit your needs but I like to build my drum sound by focusing on the FOK and overhead mics then adding in the spot mics to accent the sound a little more. I have other mics and configurations I like to use but this is my default. Again a lot of this comes from getting a good natural drum sound instead of a processed good drum sound. It's easier to get great sounds this way.

BTW, getting 2 KEL HM1 and a KEL HM2 is a great trio of drum mics. Just make sure you can reverse the phase on the HM2 when you use it or any mic as a FOK mic.

Just remember don't rely on processing rely on what's natural. You are a human and musicians are supposed to have feeling, don't be a robot.

[dave_w]

I guess what I'm curious about is if putting some sort of expensive preamp before my audio interface will drastically improve sounds. Or what else could possibly go between my mics and audio interface to improve the signal.

Remember I'm new to this... so feel free to make me feel a little stupid.

[peeder]

mic placement is god

[KeithMoonwannabe]

really it depends on what you want to achieve. using more expensive preamps may or may not improve the sound drastically. It depends on the sound going into it. If you have a perfect recording environment and a perfect sound going into it than it will probably be night and day but if it isn't a perfrect environment it will likely be harder to notice a difference. It may "color" or "reveal" more but that's about it, again a lot of this will depend on the preamp(s) you choose to use. I think getting different mics changes the sound more than a preamp. Not that I or you can't hear a difference I just don't think to most people it will be a difference worth investing in.

A better preamp will enhance a signal that's about it, having a variety of mics (different models) will give you a variety of flavors to choose from. Think of it like ice cream. Say you have the 3 standards vanilla, strawberry, and chocolate let's take the RE20, D112, and SM57 ... three standard kick drum mics. They are all well known and sound good but all three are very different from each other. Sometimes having a variety of mics can get you closer to that sound because not one mic will sound good on the same source for every song/application. Plus for the most part a variety of good mics is cheaper than a variety or in some cases one or two nice preamps.

Honestly the M-Audio preamps are kind of average/boring pres for the price range. Now going from that to something like a Focusrite Saffire or Mackie Onyx interface might get a better overall image just because the pres will be quieter and more transparent (though you lose Pro-Tools compatibility which to me isn't a big deal as I don't like PT LE). Which makes the stacked tracks sound better together. But to really "hear" the difference with pres and the like you are talking about spending thousands of dollars. I think for $1-$2k a nice collection of mics and possibly a different interface would do more for you and with or without nice preamps and all that you will hear a significant difference. For recording plugins are a better route to take in your situation. Check out the Waves stuff, SSL Duende, Universal Audio stuff, etc. Effects don't improve the sound per se though they just modify it.

really you shouldn't need anything between the mics and the interface to improve the signal aside from quality cables and stands. if you don't like the sound of any of your mics plugged into your interface on any source you probably just have the wrong interface for your personal tastes. I used to have a PreSonus but the pres got to me (in a bad way) so after extensive research I decided on a Focusrite Saffire PRO 10 i/o well almost a year later I am saving up for a Saffire PRO 26 i/o to daisy chain with it. Sometimes I wonder if I'd be as happy or happier with one of the larger Mackie firewire onyx interfaces but oh well guess I'll have live pondering on that.

Another thing you can do without spending money....try different miking techniques. Try the technique I mentioned focusing on a natural sound 2 overheads and a kick mic (snare mic optional). There are thousands of threads and sites out there with drum miking techniques.

you seem eager to spend money....I don't intend to sound offensive but money can't buy talent or good tone (which are the ingredients to a good sound)....those things come natural you will either have it or you won't

I'd say take it easy, learn to use the tools you have adequately before expanding into other things. These other purchases you want will not be budget oriented purchases they will be costly to get noticeable differences. And if you can't use what you have they might not make any difference without the knowledge of how to use them properly (more importantly using them with what you have).

Honestly it should take one mic to get a good drum sound a single room mic. But one room mic won't sit in a mix too well in most instances.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

I agree though that mic placement and technique is crucial to getting a better sound. It will make a difference with no cost incurred to you.

[supernosher]

Well I have not used the interface you are talking about, but I have used a Presonus FirePod which is basically the same class of hardware. There is no way to get a huge drum sound out of the Presonus unit. It just blows. And from what everyone says around here, the M-Audio stuff sounds worse, although keep in mind I haven't used one... The converters are not the same quality, the preamps are not the same quality, etc.

It's up to you how much you can spend on recording, and then it's up to you to decide what you want to buy first.

As was said by someone else already, start with your drums themselves, and your room. You can't get good drum sounds out of bad sounding drums. Learning to tune your drums and what drums, heads, sticks, cymbals to buy to balance your sound is the best investment you can make regardless of price.

Originally Posted by dave_w

I guess what I'm curious about is if putting some sort of expensive preamp before my audio interface will drastically improve sounds. Or what else could possibly go between my mics and audio interface to improve the signal.

Remember I'm new to this... so feel free to make me feel a little stupid.

[peeder]

I would say mic placement is above even tuning or drum quality.

We're talking millimeters and angle degrees.

[supernosher]

Originally Posted by peeder

I would say mic placement is above even tuning or drum quality.

We're talking millimeters and angle degrees.

I disagree. Although that's not to say you can't get good sounds out of a cheap kit.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

yes mic placement is important but no matter how a mic is placed if the source sounds bad the mic will always pick up a bad sound. So I will slightly disagree with you. YES IT IS IMPORTANT BUT IT ISN'T THE FIRST STEP TO TAKE AND IT ISN'T GOING TO SOLVE THE ISSUE ENTIRELY. NEVER IGNORE ANY ELEMENT OF THE SIGNAL, EVERYTHING BIG AND SMALL CONTRIBUTES TO THE END RESULT.

But seriously if you want effects and you are in the DAW realm stick to plugins it's always easier to add effects to a dry sound than to go in reverse. when you incorporate sculpting EQ and comp, etc into the signal you cannot take it out.

The room and the drums are the most important thing to get right. It's really not an argument...if they aren't right you won't get the BEST POSSIBLE SOUND NO MATTER HOW WELL POSITIONED THE MICS ARE OR WHAT GEAR YOU USE....IT JUST WON'T HAPPEN....I'm not saying go buy a DW kit or whatever I'm just saying get a good sound out of what you have

A cheap drumset can sound good-great if it's well tuned, in a good room, etc but even the most expensive drumset can sound bad if it isn't tuned, it's in a bad room, etc. Why let the source limit you? Buying nice cymbals, nice heads, etc....and spending the time to tweak them to perfection will make any kit sound awesome.

Head selection, stick selection, drummer's playing, cymbal selection, tuning, etc. are the MOST IMPORTANT ASPECTS TO MASTER.

Depending on what you play I can probably give you some great ideas for drum gear and tuning styles. I am a percussion major and I play kit and record all the time. I have a mediochre drumset to play most of the time (2002 Pearl Export Mahogany...I am saving to build/buy a new kit thinking either a DIY acrylic kit or a step up from my kit like a Yamaha Tour Custom or something all maple) but I have a nice snare drum Ludwig Aluminum with upgrades (die cast hoops, Puresound snare wires (personally I use the Twisted series), tube lugs, etc), I use all REMO drumheads (clear pinstripes on toms, clear powerstroke 3 on kick, coated powerstroke 3 on snare), all DW 5000/9000 series hardware, and I got a nice set of K Custom Hybrid Cymbals from the Zildjian Sound Lab. Most people (aside from some of us uber gear snobs) can't tell that I'm playing an intermediate drumset because of how the kit is tuned, played, and the room I'm in and how I miked the kit. I tune my kick pretty low to get a nice tight, punchy sound. My toms are more of a mid-range not too tight but not flabby/boomy. My snare is pretty high tension and I like it tight and dry sounding with a nice crack type of rimshot sound.

Next important is mic selection.

I would do preamps after mics or at the same time. Make sure you pair your mics to your preamp. Try to optimize your tone when possible. And in all honesty if you want to stick with Pro Tools maybe you should consider getting some kind of 8 Channel mic preamp. Something like a Focusrite Octopre or Mackie Onyx 800R will be a slight upgrade over the M-Audio preamps (which are kinda crap as we've all said before...these will be a noticeable improvement not like M-Audio vs Avalon -or w/e highly regarded pre you want to insert- but they will be quieter and more transparent). If you really want to jump up in quality there are countless options and the price can be thousands of dollars and then you'd have to tell us what sounds you want from different elements of the kit or if you want a multi-channel pre so everything sounds more universal/cohesive, etc...

Then after all those elements are under control would be the time (if you still need it) to look into effects. Like I said I think you'd be better off going with nice plugins. Duende by SSL is nice (firewire), Waves (SSL pack, along with many of the other bundles), UA stuff (a lot of cool plugs available). Like I said it's better to get a good natural dry sound and then to modify it later when you need effects than to start with a wet sound that you can't change.

A couple of inexpensive products I reccomend to help with recording are the Earthworks KickPad and the KikBrik. Using those two pieces get you to a nearly perfect kick sound in a hurry (for most styles). A DRUMDIAL is a MUST because it is the most accurate way to check tuning. I have a good ear and I sitll use a drumdial when I record or play a big concert (even like timpani, etc I use my drumdial). No ear could ever be as accurate or consistent as a drumdial (it's just physical limitations of the human anatomy).

Aside from that Moongel can be cool, but I try to reccomend using as little dampening material as possible. If you tune properly dampening and muffling is unnecessary unless you are going for a sound where it's ok to choke/kill everything (ie an effect).

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by dave_w

I'm looking to buy whatever I may need to make my drums sounds as good as they can on a bit of a budget.

With drums, I firmly believe that 90% of it is a good room and your ability to place mics in the right spots. Most guys never quite get that right. All the gear in the world will not compensate for it.
So, I wouldn't worry about what you buy. Maybe a stereo pair mics along w/ a couple 57's to start.
To learn how to get a good drum sound, I recommend beginning by getting a good sound w/ one mic. Then, try just a pair of overheads w/ a kick. Once you get that down, graduate to micing the HH, snare, room, etc.

It's going to be a while before the gear makes much of a difference.

[dave_w]

Awesome advice so far everyone. Especially KeithMoonWannabe!
As of right now I'm just getting rid of a crappy set of CAD mics and working on buying some new ones. I've got a SM57 of course and an AKG112 on the kick. I've had a few people tell me that a pair of Oktava 012's would work well as overheads (because I'm recording in a smaller carpeted basement). My drum kit is a Tama Rockstar with a piccolo snare and some really nice sounding Zildjians. I just bought a tension tuner for my drums yesterday and I haven't had a chance to try it out.. but I've heard good things. I hear what you're saying about the M-Audio interface. I'll try to return it if they let me and hopefully get something similar in the same price range (What do you suggest).

I'd love if you would help me finish (for now) building my studio for under $2500.

Besides the SM57, the AKG112 and the Mac (w/PT) what am I looking for here.

(And yes I am hearing what you are all saying about room accoustics and mic set up.. I'm just waiting until I get what I need before I move too much junk around)

[KeithMoonwannabe]

I think you are getting to the right idea and you have an excellent starting point.

The D112 and SM57 are industry standards. I think by learning simple 3 and 4 mic techniques and nailing them will get you farther than that 7 piece CAD kit. You'll be surprised how much better you sound with this new setup and it may be all you need.

With the overheads you may want to try various mics and "return" them till you get the right ones. I've used a lot of overheads and still haven't found THE ONE but I really like the KEL HM1 (they are guaranteed or you can get your money back, talk about standing by your products) and the ATM450. Another possibility though it may not be the very best sounding (but will sound excellent at any price point) is finding a used pair of SM81 mics or possibly KSM32 if you can stretch a little bit. Getting the industry standards is great because you know what you are getting and you know they will still have value the next day even if YOU don't "like" them. The KSM32 would be my top choice actually if you are going with 3 or 4 mics. I like the way they capture the kit better as a cohesive instrument. Your toms will sound better with them but again this is personal preference. My best advice is try it out till you get what you want. I'm not saying that the Oktavas are bad mics but I am saying especially when starting off it's good to invest conservatively with gear. Get something you know will be good and that will still be in demand tomorrow. A lot of products like the Oktava mics come and go with time....things like the SM57, D112 (and it's predecessor D12, a better mic but that's another thing), SM81, U87.....these are names most people are familiar with simply because they are legendary products they hold their value forever and they will always be good products. Despite what some people think LDC mics are great overheads (tell me how many pros use C414, AT4050, KSM32, KSM44, U87, etc as overheads??? yeah that's what I thought A LOT)

I might also suggest getting an Auralex mic isolator kit, if they are still available (it's possible they've been discontinued) but while they aren't crucial they can help in bad sound spaces to isolate your mics from the room when a drier sound is preferred. My kit works especially well for drums and I think that was the main application for most of the kit's components.

FOCUS ON QUALITY NOT QUANTITY.

Like I said buying gear will not mask bad tone. Placement will not truly mask bad tone. Editing and adding effects does not eliminate the fact that it sounds bad to begin with. Learning recording techniques is a lot easier when you have good stuff to work with and will yield much GREATER RESULTS. Again I'm not trying to sell a DW set and a high end studio room and see you spend $20k.....though we'd all love to see pics of all the cool toys.... I'm merely emphasizing making your own gear and room sound as good as possible to your ear naturally. But that doesn't mean that none of those things are important to obtaining good tone. I am saying that nothing should be ignored or displaced over anything else. If not for anything sounding good should be your priority because chances are you play out and practice more than you record. At least for me I always want to sound my best so tone is critical to me. I don't want to play for people when I'm not at my best I want to make a lasting impression. Of course I'm not saying I've never played on bad days I've had auditions where I was sick and yada yada and same with gigs and the like. I'm just saying ideally you want to be perfect. And any professional will tell you that you will practice it till you don't get it wrong, believe me I've spent my days and nights playing the same thing over and over and over and over again (even more repetitively than that). A lot of professionals will spend hours tweaking and tuning their instrument(s). That's why professional ensembles sound different than a middle school band. Why should you rely on other things to sound good when you play? Music is not luck, it is what it is. And despite what anyone says it requires hard work and discipline, yes talent helps but even talented people have to practice. Work on playing the best way you possibly can until you can't get it wrong. Placing mic placement above playing, tuning, etc is like an amateur saying they practice till they get it right. Well if that's the only point you practice to you can still get it wrong and most times they make mistakes when they do it for real (I know from experience both with myself and others as my career has evolved). Really if you are recording bad sounding stuff you aren't learning the true art and science of mic placement because you are learning to mask bad sounds. While in some cases that can be useful you are creating more work for yourself. Most mics are actually pretty forgiving with placement on good sources, on bad sources yeah they are super touchy and millimeters and slight angle adjustments are HUGE!!! That's because at one point the physics and acoustics will yield different sounds (at some points they probably sound more pleasing than at others) hence that "sweet spot". I could go all science and mathy on you but I won't for the sake of my sanity.

Like Bowie said a great way to learn mic placement and technique is to focus on one mic at a time then work with two mics and start to see how they correlate to one another in a mix and as individual units. If one mic sounds bad on its own it won't sound good with 2+ mics together. Even taking strange approaches like just your snare mic or snare and kick together etc will really help you out. It'll take a while to pickup the learning curve but once you start figuring it out it becomes loads of fun.
IE MIC PLACEMENT IS ABOUT USING YOUR EARS TO GUIDE THE MICS.

If you are into really weird things one time I setup a LD Tube Condenser in my chimney and recorded my drumset in another room in my house through the chimney mic and added some reverb and a phaser for a really cool sound. It fit really well into one of my songs, obviously miking under sinks, in pipes, chimneys etc is not always practical or useful.

I still would like to get some condoms and mic something under water with my SM57's a friend of mine told me to try that for a neat effect. Apparently that was the original underwater miking method.

My point with that is don't be afraid to be adventurous or unconventional when you approach miking your kit. There really aren't rules or ways to do things, just experiment till you get to what you like. Because sound and all this stuff does come down to subjection and it's a matter of personal preference what one person considers crap could be another's treasure.


As far as heads on a lot of the intermediate kits (like your Rockstar or my Export) something like a Clear Pinstripe or Emperor (Evans G2 or EC2) work great for tom batter heads because they kind of nautrally dampen unwanted overtones (which happen with lower end shells) and give you more of a professional tone, if you play a nice kit and then your rockstar you will probably know what I mean (even with stock heads on a nice kit). I also like Coated Ambassadors/G1 for batters but these may be harder to work with on a low end shell because they tend to resonate more freely.
For bass drum my top two choices are the Evans EMAD and the Remo Powerstroke 3 (clear or coated). With a kikbrik for dampening.
For snare usually the best choice is a coated ambassador, for metal snares I like Powerstroke 3's to give a little balance to the sound but that's preference.
Single ply heads are usually the best heads to use, and I'm a heavy hitter, if you bust through heads you need to evaluate your technique because that shouldn't physically be happening when you are playing (and tuning) the "right" way.

I'm not a big fan of Aquarian heads btw, their stuff in my experiences tends to be over-rated. remo has always been the most reliable for me and I actually switched back to remo after using evans exclusively. My Aquarian phase was very very short lived. Though some people love them so it's all up to personal preference. I cannot comment on Attack products simply because I have limited experience and cannot fairly judge tone and durability.

[dave_w]

Alright. I guess as much as I don't want to believe it... I should worry more about my room sound before I put a ton of money into gear. I suppose I should almost start an entirely new post here... but what I've been looking into for the past few hours is how to treat my room.

Anyone want to take a stab at it?

It is a 20ftx40ft carpeted basement w/ wood panel walls. The room is around 8 or 9 feet.. which I'm realizing is pretty low!

I've been looking alot into bass traps and auralex foam...but i'm not quite sure what to go with. Should I be using dividers maybe? The room is giving off a ton of flutter echo and it just screams "TEENAGED GARAGE BAND RECORDING SESSION!"

How would you suggest I go about treating this room before I worry about mics.

[peeder]

20x40 screams "split me up" which means putting up walls (and isolating, massive ones) to produce rooms of better dimensions and isolation. You can ask in the acoustics forum what the ideal room dimensions are, how to build walls and doors and windows, and go and build those in your space.

You will want diffusion to treat flutter echo...definitely not foam (foam is basically heading in the wrong direction). You can bass trap the corners with 703 panels (e.g. GIK), but only if they need it.

Diffusors could be e.g. Auralex TFusors, homemade QRD-type diffusors made of wood, or something else you come up with or wish to pay for.

If you don't want a massive money/labor outlay just try to break up the flutters with anything you've got...store people's furniture and bicycles and whatever down there, it will break them up OK.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by peeder

20x40 screams "split me up" which means putting up walls (and isolating, massive ones) to produce rooms of better dimensions and isolation. You can ask in the acoustics forum what the ideal room dimensions are, how to build walls and doors and windows, and go and build those in your space.

You will want diffusion to treat flutter echo...definitely not foam (foam is basically heading in the wrong direction). You can bass trap the corners with 703 panels (e.g. GIK), but only if they need it.

Diffusors could be e.g. Auralex TFusors, homemade QRD-type diffusors made of wood, or something else you come up with or wish to pay for.

If you don't want a massive money/labor outlay just try to break up the flutters with anything you've got...store people's furniture and bicycles and whatever down there, it will break them up OK.

Agreed. Very sound advice.
Split that room up (but don't make two 20x20 cubes). And, storage makes the best diffusion.

[dave_w]

When you say "Split up the room" what do you suggest? Room dividers? And if so.. where could I possibly get them.

[Iggy Poop]

IMHO you should just hang blankets from the ceiling forming a boxed area or drum booth within the space. Set the drums up inside of that and then mic up the kit. Better to deaden the sound and use plug ins to enhance each track then to deal with sound waves bouncing off your wood panels and into mics that you don't want them to. Your ceiling is low but as long as you can get your overheads 18 inches or so above the cymbals you should be fine. That's what I think.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

I'm sure you could find something usable at a Lowe's or Home Depot (ie home improvement store). Heck if you do your homework I'm sure you could build your own for less money than something already assembled.

Depending on the type of divider maybe even an office supply store like Staples or Office Max might have something.

I think you may need to post a thread about it in the other forum though since they will be more at home in giving expertise and accurate info.

Diffusors are definitely something you need, bass traps are a maybe, and the auralex foam is a definite no (for now).

I record my kit in my basement and while I don't remember the height of the ceilings off the top of my head no basement is really tall so you can check out my myspace and see what you can do in a pretty much untreated basement.

myspace.com/natemcclure

[TheRealRoach]

Here's my unofficial cheep-o's guide to a good drum sound:

The bottom line is that the room is a big deal for drums.
- Do you like the sound of your drum kit in your room?
- To your ears, does the kit in the room sound the way that you would want it to sound on a recording?

If "yes" then I wouldn't worry about room dividers and such. Get some of the mics already listed in this thread, and then go to THIS thread and see what other people are doing with which kinds of mics.

If "no" then re-tune elements of the kit, swap out cymbals for different ones, switch snare drums, go to the local music shop and rent/buy some new drum gear (yahoo) etc., If you still can't get the right sound then try moving the kit to different parts of the room. You may want to get a friend to come over to bang away at the drums as you walk around and listen to it in different spots. If the kit sounds good but the room is too echo-y drag over a couch, put some bookshelves (with books) closer to the kit, tack up some heavy blankets between a couple spare mic stands.

So once the kit is sounding good in the room to your ears, THEN you can start placing your microphones and work hard with what you got because, assuming that your current microphones are at least at a Shure 57 level, I doubt you really have to buy anything at all.

If you still are having problems then report back here. Post up some audio clips and pictures of your miked-up kit

[HeavyG]

I would say the following items are your critical success factors for good drum tone (somewhat in order of importance):
1. Mic Placement
2. Drummer (control of dynamics)
3. Mic Type (model, etc)
4. Drums (tuning, heads, brand, wood,etc)
5. Mic Preamp
6. Room

It sounds like you are asking if there is something you should put in your chain between the mics and your preamp/interface. I don't believe this would help you...you want to record as dry as possible. You can do all your sound palette manipulation post production in Logic. Look at improving your techniques in the first four success factors and your drum tone chops will take a quantum leap...

[Ubu4him]

Originally Posted by peeder

mic placement is god

Yes it is

my setup is 2 kick mics
-sm57
-speaker kick mic

one Snare
-sm57

two overheads
-at2020 (but thats all i got to work with )

and sometimes i put my MXL 990 in the other room that has no treatment

The idea when i record drums is i want the best representation of the kit as possible... thats what is all about

[Ludwig]

Originally Posted by HeavyG

I would say the following items are your critical success factors for good drum tone (somewhat in order of importance):
1. Mic Placement
2. Drummer (control of dynamics)
3. Mic Type (model, etc)
4. Drums (tuning, heads, brand, wood,etc)
5. Mic Preamp
6. Room

It sounds like you are asking if there is something you should put in your chain between the mics and your preamp/interface. I don't believe this would help you...you want to record as dry as possible. You can do all your sound palette manipulation post production in Logic. Look at improving your techniques in the first four success factors and your drum tone chops will take a quantum leap...

No way preamp should be before room. A crap room will ruin the drum sound even if you were using the best preamps in the world.

[HeavyG]

Originally Posted by Ludwig

No way preamp should be before room. A crap room will ruin the drum sound even if you were using the best preamps in the world.

I agree that NEITHER ARE as important as the other factors....

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by HeavyG http://www.gearslutz.com/board/image...s/viewpost.gif
I would say the following items are your critical success factors for good drum tone (somewhat in order of importance):
1. Mic Placement
2. Drummer (control of dynamics)
3. Mic Type (model, etc)
4. Drums (tuning, heads, brand, wood,etc)
5. Mic Preamp
6. Room

It sounds like you are asking if there is something you should put in your chain between the mics and your preamp/interface. I don't believe this would help you...you want to record as dry as possible. You can do all your sound palette manipulation post production in Logic. Look at improving your techniques in the first four success factors and your drum tone chops will take a quantum leap...


MY TWO CENTS:

like I said I think all of these things are important I don't really see a need in ranking anything.

If any of these components are lacking guess what happens.....

YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO SOUND BAD AND MORE LIKELY THAN NOT YOU WILL SOUND BAD

Like I said the best start to addressing these issues is to sit down and listen to your drumset in your room now. If it sounds good to your ears than start miking up, if not, write down a list of things you don't like. Heck post the list on here and we can give you potential solutions or suggestions. Then address each thing you write down. Say flutter echo is one thing you wrote down, adding diffusors to your room will be a suggestion. Let's say you think your cymbals are way too bright, a suggestion might be to try some darker sounding cymbals (maybe K series instead of A series for example). If it's the character of the mics bothering you sell the mics your using and go for another model (lets say your kick sound is bothering you with the D112 try a D6 or a Beta 52 or just get an Earthworks kickpad and keep the D112 lol). etc etc

Some things though may not be controllable. Quality of gear may not be an expense you can afford right now. So that's why I didn't say go buy your dream kit, dream cymbals, dream mics, etc.

[peeder]

My third cent:

Hire a great local engineer to come over and evaluate the situation for you and tell you what your priorities are for fixing it. You most likely won't have enough experience with any of these conditions to understand what actually is wrong.

You might end up deciding to use an established studio for printing real drums. It will be cheaper that way after all.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by HeavyG

I would say the following items are your critical success factors for good drum tone (somewhat in order of importance):
1. Mic Placement
2. Drummer (control of dynamics)
3. Mic Type (model, etc)
4. Drums (tuning, heads, brand, wood,etc)
5. Mic Preamp
6. Room

My experience differs a little but to each is own.

1. Drummer
2. Room
3. Drums (tuning, heads, brand, wood,etc)
4. Mic Placement
5. Mic Type
6. Mic Preamp

W/ the first two being far and away the most important. IMHO

[jbsg02]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

My experience differs a little but to each is own.

1. Drummer
2. Room
3. Drums (tuning, heads, brand, wood,etc)
4. Mic Placement
5. Mic Type
6. Mic Preamp

W/ the first two being far and away the most important. IMHO

[KeithMoonwannabe]

I will third that if you so wish to rank