moving from digital-only to digital+analogue - advice greatly appreciated!

[gooner]

hi there

i'm looking for some advice on what possible gear to buy..

i currently make house/techno music using ableton live and an RME multiface.. i mix everything digitally and also just render within ableton..
i've released a number of records using this method and even though i'm not 'unhappy' as such with the sound, i just know it can be betterl..

so i've been talking with various friends and i'm thinking about getting either an 8 or 16 i/o pci (or firewire) + breakout box of some sort (e.g. rme/aurora/apogee/motu/ssl xlogic).. then hooking this up with a summing mixer (e.g. neve 8816 or dangerous 2 bus or 2 bs LT).. -> so that i can inject a bit of 'analogue' into my workflow.

the only audio source for the foreseeable future is the audio coming out of my daw (vsti's/sampled drum loops/sampled vocals etc).. so i won't really be doing much recording aside from a drum machine that i use - but i generally just sample that in advance and sequence the audio straight from ableton along with all the rest of my vsti's/softsamplers via midi

is it overkill to spend money on apogee/ssl etc kit? or will i really notice the difference? and re: the summing mixer, will i really appreciate the difference between the something like the nev 8816 or ssl x-rack gear and the cheaper dangerous 2bus LT?

one thing that i definitely want is expandability though..

i've got max $7000 to spend on everything

any help would be greatly appreciated!!

thanks.

[Bassmankr]

Read and understand this thread before you do anything else first

Hardware inserts and "in the box" perfection..?

That is ONE option that is fairly cost effective, another is a hybrid setup with plenty of D to A conversion and an analog desk/analog outboard and there are plenty of threads on gear choices for that approach. Good luck with your research as there many options.

[1monkey1]

i would say if you want to improve your sound and you have 7k to spend, you can accomplish that mission. with that loot you can upgrade a lot of stuff and i would be 98% sure you would be more excited about your tracks.

i don't dig apogee stuff but it might be great for your music. you could get a couple of channels of it.

you can do a bunch with 7k, spend wisely.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by gooner

so i've been talking with various friends and i'm thinking about getting either an 8 or 16 i/o pci (or firewire) + breakout box of some sort (e.g. rme/aurora/apogee/motu/ssl xlogic).. then hooking this up with a summing mixer (e.g. neve 8816 or dangerous 2 bus or 2 bs LT).. -> so that i can inject a bit of 'analogue' into my workflow.

the only audio source for the foreseeable future is the audio coming out of my daw (vsti's/sampled drum loops/sampled vocals etc).. so i won't really be doing much recording aside from a drum machine that i use - but i generally just sample that in advance and sequence the audio straight from ableton along with all the rest of my vsti's/softsamplers via midi

I would read this thread first too Small Summing Shootout = Analog Disappointment. and consider spending that money elsewhere.
I think what you're looking for won't be found in analog summing unless you're throwing a bunch of EQs and compressors in the chain. i would advise you to get a few really good channels of preamps and compressors and high end AD/DA conversion to retrack your digital realm synths thru. I have noticed a huge difference in the way instruments sit in an overall mix once they have been converted out through an Apogee run thru a nice preamp and maybe compressed a little and run back into an Apogee.
I find this to be particularly necessary when you're using almost exclusively plug in synths. Give this a try with your current setup, I'm sure you'll hear a bit of a difference already.
I think once you buy a nice stereo chain for conversion and reamping you should put the rest of your budget into high quality plugins like the UAD-1 or similar.
But I do believe you will be disappointed by the analog summing vs what you're thinking you may get out of it.
Just something else to think about.

[gooner]

thanks for the advice.. i actually read through that post this morning and have been thinking along similar lines ever since!

[quincyg]

i think if i were in your shoes i would spend the $ on some good coloration/ fattening outboard gear. maybe a fatso, a mixbuss compressor, a stereo pair of good coloring pres. once you route you digital sources out through a fatso or any color box it is crazy how much beef is added to thin tracks.

summing box seems like a potential waste of money.

[miqer]

How about 2 Chandler Tone Controls, to run things through, but also to run the mix through. The color is great.

For the rest I would get outboard effects, like a tape echo, a couple of spring reverbs, loads of reverbs, a re-amp box, a old tube guitar amp to run signals in. A nice tube mic to record things with. This is starting to not sound like techno, electronics....

[gooner]

thanks - the fatso looks great.. though any advice on any cheaper coloring boxes?

have been checking out the allen & heath zed r16 as a possible solution for the 16 channel interface AND board... i can then spend the rest on outboard fx (i think i excaggerated the budget somewhat - it's probably more likely that i'm gonna spend 5k)

cheers

[beingmf]

All good advice, but from my point of view the weak link is that you mix (that's what I've understood so far) in Ableton. When I tried it everything sounded so jittered and digital - I almost couldn't believe it. Maybe get a good 2 track reel to reel and a 2nd computer with a top notch 2ch interface to record read-after-write? It works

[gooner]

Originally Posted by beingmf

All good advice, but from my point of view the weak link is that you mix (that's what I've understood so far) in Ableton. When I tried it everything sounded so jittered and digital - I almost couldn't believe it. Maybe get a good 2 track reel to reel and a 2nd computer with a top notch 2ch interface to record read-after-write? It works

sorry, but can you explain the flow of audio in your recommendation? could you also give an example of a reputable reel to reel? (i don't have a clue in this area)
thanks