Guitar cabs and 57's

[frist44]

I think I'm starting to appreciate an sm57 more and more as I start to get more mixes under my belt. I have a 121 that I often put on a guitar cabinet and when solo'd, beats the hell out of the 57, however, come mix time, I find most of the frequencies that seem to fit in the 57. Is this the key?

I'm starting to understand why judging things from their solo'd sound can cause more work in the end.

Brandon

[jbuntz]

I think I read somewhere else on this forum that andy wallace doesn't ever make adjustments to solo tracks, just the tracks in the mix. Makes a lot of sense to me.

[frist44]

I think a lot also has to do with the fact that I'm not 100% sure about my monitors. If I listen to a track I like and then dive right into tracking some guitars, I'll be after a sound I have in my head. If I go right into without a reference, I sometimes opt for sound that seems to sound good at the time and make no sense down the road.

I've been tracking instrument after instrument without much adjustment to the mix aside from levels. I'm thinking about processing the drums after I'm done with them to get a better sound, which might setup the mix to have the next instrument fit in better during tracking. It's sometimes hard to tell where the guitars fit without eq'ing the drums and bass it seems because there's not a good spot for them to sit. The players also seem to have more difficulty tracking like that because it seems like more midrange nonsesnse and they can't differentiate tempo and hear themselves at the the same time. That obviously is because of bad micing. But again, I think it would direct the song better and probably make mixing much easier as well.

any thoughts?

Brandon

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by frist44
I think I'm starting to appreciate an sm57 more and more as I start to get more mixes under my belt.

Some of us have been appreciating it more and more for 40 years!

[frist44]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Some of us have been appreciating it more and more for 40 years!

Was that your experience in your early years, thinking "why the hell does that mic sound like crap?"

Brandon

[Drumsound]

Solo should only be used to set preamp levels and occasionally to find problems. I once had a period of about two months when my solo logic on my console wasn't working. I barely missed it.

[Jules]

Originally posted by frist44
I'm thinking about processing the drums after I'm done with them to get a better sound, which might setup the mix to have the next instrument fit in better during tracking. It's sometimes hard to tell where the guitars fit without eq'ing the drums and bass it seems because there's not a good spot for them to sit.

I find this work VERY well for me when recording rock bands. Especially when tracking with minimum EQ on drums..

I find it well worth the time to do a little pre-mixing before moving on to the overdub stage.

Reason.. at mixdown adding some HF to drums is quite common, but if really RADICAL HF or mid boosts need to be made to the gtrs - things can go a little nasty... IMHO it's far better if the drums (and bass) are in some sort of 'close to mixed' tonal zone - then all the folowing overdubs can be taylored to fit and not require TOO much alteration later...

[frist44]

I can see getting rid of all the crap the bass DI adds in the mids and top. I'm starting to approach mixing a little different and it's a bumpy road. I used to strive for good sounds solo'd. last night I tried to mix a song without doing it once and it was definitely a challenge and the results weren't that great, however, I think with some tweaking and more learning, it'll make for a better end product when i get used to it.

Thanks,
Brandon

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by frist44
Was that your experience in your early years, thinking "why the hell does that mic sound like crap?"

Brandon

I was utterly shocked by how good it sounded with a pro mike preamp rather than the cheap mixers we had in high school.

[wwittman]

After a bit of experience, SOLO can be useful... in the way that, AFTER hearing that something is not quite right in the mix, one can check in solo and get a better idea sometimes as to WHY...

but it's absolutely true that a good sound in solo, doesn't mean anything.. it's how sounds work together that good recording is all about.

On the other hand... I've never liked an sm-57 on anything.
Ever.

[DirkB]

I don't buy into these "don't solo" things.

For example, when overdubbing dirt guitars, I'm listening to what I hear IN THE ROOM (which is just an amp blazing away) and I want to record that so it sounds SIMILAR to what I'm hearing in the room.
Of course I also check if it's working with what is already recorded.

Oh, and I really like the combo of a SM57 and R-121 (SM57 with IBP for best phase coherency): best of both worlds.

Greetings,
Dirk

[Jburn34]

57's can definitely sound better through a pro preamp. I'll never forget the first time I recorded vox through a 57 and an Avalon 2022. I couldn't believe it as a 57 in there!

[seb37000]

I dont like the 57 on anything, but I have to give it one last chance on snare, I have to hear why top engeneers still use that thing on snare...I cant remember it's been so long....

[wwittman]

I've never liked it on snare either... but yes, there's no question it's THE most used snare mic...

I've always thought it's more because people think they "should" like it rather than actually A-B-ing it.

But whatever works for you!
I haven't used anything but a KM84 on snares for perhaps 25 years.

[DirkB]

Well, there's something with the punch that a sm57 deliveres on snare. It always needs eq, but somehow it really captures the essence of a punching, rocking snare with a great mid range
.

My problem: I always try something else but somehow can't get away from it...

Greetings,
Dirk

[wwittman]

That's the way to do it, Dirk.

For me, I've never liked it in an A-B and I love the 84.

I also think drums just about ALWAYS need EQ.. face it, close mic'ing a drum is an inherently unnatural way to record them.. yet we all do it because we like the hyep-y perspective.

those purest, no or minimal EQ, drum sounds always sound poopy to me.

[DirkB]

Originally posted by wwittman
I also think drums just about ALWAYS need EQ.. face it, close mic'ing a drum is an inherently unnatural way to record them.. yet we all do it because we like the hyep-y perspective.

Yep, never had a close mic on a drum that didn't need any eq...

Greetings,
Dirk

[Gie-Sound]

Originally posted by DirkB
Yep, never had a close mic on a drum that didn't need any eq...

Greetings,
Dirk

Never??

[Brad McGowan]

I've lately been getting into variations of the SM57. I recently picked up a 545 Unidyne III and a PE54D Unidyne III. I would describe the sound as less peaky in the midrange, with more of a roll-off in the low end. Overall they seem to be a smoother sounding mics to my ears. Very cool on guitars and vocals. You can pick these mics up for less than $50 each on Ebay.

Another thing you may want to try with your SM57 is ripping out the transformer and soldering the capsule directly to the output. In my opinion it's a very cool sound. The output level drops a bunch (think of it like a built in pad), but the midrange smooths out, the high end opens up, an the the low end seems to get bigger. It's very nice. Think of it like a more hi-fi, flatter sounding 57. I've found it very useful for drums, guitars, and vocals.

Can't say that I've touched my "normal" 57's in a while.

Brad

[DirkB]

Originally posted by Gie-Sound
Never??

A close mic on a drum that didn't benefit from at least some eq?

Nope, never...

Greetings,
Dirk

[wooster]

Originally posted by frist44
I think I'm starting to appreciate an sm57 more and more as I start to get more mixes under my belt. I have a 121 that I often put on a guitar cabinet and when solo'd, beats the hell out of the 57, however, come mix time, I find most of the frequencies that seem to fit in the 57. Is this the key?

you can go one step further into your appreciation for this mic, by trying out a beta 57. it seems to fit in a mix better for me. you won't regret it

[Gie-Sound]

Originally posted by wooster
you can go one step further into your appreciation for this mic, by trying out a beta 57. it seems to fit in a mix better for me. you won't regret it

Well I have to disagree with you on this one. When using a beta 57 on a guitarcab it always sounds to me like I have phase issues, I don't know. There are a lot of mics I would pic over a beta57. (A normal 57 is still the nr1 choice for me).

[ziegenh5]

Yeah, the thing about the 57 is that while it may not always be the best choice, it will always give you a good usable sound to work with. I too, love the km84 on snare, but don't trust the drummers that I work with enough to stick it there, so I use either a 57 or a SM7, either of which blends real nice with the km84 on OH.
Sean

[seb37000]

A 57 on guitar always sounded kind of phasy to me.