Oktava mk012's for overheads... Yay or Nay?

[halcyo]

Someone recommended these as pretty decent mics for the price. I just bought myself a gretsch birch kit and now I need some mics to record it! I am looking to stay on the more budget side, but to be honest the oktava's seem almost too inexpensive, ya know? How are they? I am willing to spend a bit more than that, but hopefully (although probably difficult) under 500-600 bucks for the pair. I am willing to buy used I suppose. I need some mic help on a drum set basically, and you guys have always come through. I need a pair of overheads, a bass drum mic, and some sm57's.

I currently own a soundelux u195 and a studio projects c1 and a couple of dynamic mics. Here's what I've been looking at:

Overheads: Oktava mk012, Shure Sm81 or Pg81, NEED SUGGESTIONS and ideas. I want something that is nice, but I can't spend alot.

Kick: AKG d112, Shure Beta 52 (I kinda dig the d112, I've used it before), and I've heard that my u195 is killer about a foot or two away from the kick.

NOTE: Please be specific on model numbers and who makes them. I am not a mic expert, so when somebody gives me a number without a company name, I'm kinda lost!

[thermos]

Search the web for a mod. I got mine modded and they actually sound pretty great. If you can take the time and handle the weird attitudes at guitar center, bring in a laptop and a soundcard and check out a bunch. I went through like 40 of them, and got 4. Left 2 stock, and modded 2.

[LumenStudio]

I don't record a ton of drums but I did a session where i recorded a kit at a friends house for fun with all of my mics including a pair of these on overheads and they sounded fantastic.

One mans results.

Cheers,
Lumen

[MASSIVE Master]

I like the 012's as overheads. The quality control is pretty bad, though... It might serve you well to use SM-81's (which IMHO, are one of the most usefull microphones, period).

012's are really nice for close ambience - Overheads, string sections, etc.

81's are much nicer when there's more distance involved - Rooms, orchestras, choirs, etc. They're also a bit more "in your face" than the 012's which can be good or bad, depending on the situation.

Those PG's are Pretty Gunky... I mean "Junky."

YMMV.

[Drumsound]

My one experience with MC012s as overheads was a positive one.

"It might serve you well to use SM-81's (which IMHO, are one of the most usefull microphones, period)."

I second this.

In addition I would add (while it may be irrelivent) they are a better investment as well. If you pick them up used you will most likely be able to get your dollars back out if needed OR they are not right for you.

I have a friend who just put together a room on the cheap and he bought the MXL and Nady's via some drum mic kits, anyways I took my 81's over as a "known quantity" for the experiment. We were only testing OHs. We also tried his 3035's. They came the closest to the 81 but, the 81 was in another class compared to the Nady and MXL. Mind you, this was all through some not so stellar pres.

Not sure how any of this relates to the Octava's but, it is my $.02


Good luck. Use your ear!


D

[Oldone]

Watch your distance from the cymbals on these or the sound comes off pretty harsh, accurate, but harsh. Back about 2 feet and you're good.

[PaRaNoId]

in my experience they are better as a hi-hat mic, but certainly can work (when properly tested and placed) on your overheads. Many positive experiences here...very fussy mics though (as i find most LDCs to be)

EDIT: "fussy"- sound is affected to an unusually high degree by the placement, in relation to the source. F*ck you Webster (the dictionary, of course)

[Dot]

halcyo, if you're near a Sitar Center pick up a pair of Groove Tubes GT33 - they're $99 each right now. Really nice OH and workhorse mic.

Also, try the C1 on snare. Does a great job.

I'd stay away from 57's on toms. Studio Projects B1's are $79 each and killer on toms.

For kick the Audio-Technica ATM25 is excellent and is only around $139 or so.

[digitaltaper]

The price you quoted seems alful high for Oktavas ... I had bough a Oktava box set over almost 2 years ago ... I paid $675 for a MP + the three different capsules ...

If your going to pay 500-600 make sure your getting all the capulses with them ... otherwise I think your paying way to much for a used pair.

[halcyo]

Wow, alot of info to process here, and alot of questions for many of your responses. Anyone can jump in at any time!

Originally posted by MassiveMaster
012's are really nice for close ambience - Overheads, string sections, etc.

81's are much nicer when there's more distance involved - Rooms, orchestras, choirs, etc. They're also a bit more "in your face" than the 012's which can be good or bad, depending on the situation.

Are you saying that the Sm81's are different from the 012's or that the 81's are all that the 012's are but MORE? You say that the 81's are good for room ambience, but can they do the closer sounds as well?

Originally posted by Oldone
Watch your distance from the cymbals on these or the sound comes off pretty harsh, accurate, but harsh. Back about 2 feet and you're good.

Are you talking about the Mk012's or the Sm81's? They will most likely used with a pair of Grace 101 mic pre's, which are pretty 'clean and accurate'. Do you guys suggest a mic with more character for use with a cleaner pre?

Originally posted by Dot
halcyo, if you're near a Sitar Center pick up a pair of Groove Tubes GT33 - they're $99 each right now. Really nice OH and workhorse mic.

Also, try the C1 on snare. Does a great job.

I'd stay away from 57's on toms. Studio Projects B1's are $79 each and killer on toms.

For kick the Audio-Technica ATM25 is excellent and is only around $139 or so.

These are some very different suggestions to chew on! Anyone else like to comment on these mics? Again, I am very open to suggestions. I think my best bet is to find some really solid mics that I almost can't go too wrong with. I find the anti sm57 comment interesting. Tell me more about this, and tell me more about the Studio Projects B1's!

Originally posted by Digitaltaper
The price you quoted seems alful high for Oktavas ... I had bough a Oktava box set over almost 2 years ago ... I paid $675 for a MP + the three different capsules ...

If your going to pay 500-600 make sure your getting all the capulses with them ... otherwise I think your paying way to much for a used pair.

Sorry, my original post was kind of unclear. I was saying that the Oktavas seemed cheap, and that I would be willing to spend 500-600 dollars on OTHER OH mics!

[MASSIVE Master]

Originally posted by halcyo
Are you saying that the Sm81's are different from the 012's or that the 81's are all that the 012's are but MORE? You say that the 81's are good for room ambience, but can they do the closer sounds as well?

If I could only have one or the other, it'd be the 81's. Maybe not "all and more" but more flexible IMO.

That being said, the 012's AND the 81's can be very nice in a "reasonably" close situation. Nice, with a different flavor. example, I like the 012's on violins, but I slightly prefer the 81's on cellos. So for close mic'ing, I'm really up in the air with them.

But once you're literally "up in the air" and trying to capture a more open space, I feel that the 81's capture that "open" sound much better than the 012's. Clarity, definition, depth... Just more "real" sounding in that situation.

Of course, YMMV, IMHO, yada, yada, etc.

[Screws]

This is a really hard question to answer because Overhead mics sound very different when they are used in different sounding rooms.

High ceilings or low, wood walls or foam covered, wood floors or carpeted floors, large, medium or small space. All of these affect the sound of the mics.

I say this because I love the 012's I have used in my room, and plan to get a pair. I've used AT4051's that I loved on acoustic guitar, but sounded a bit too bright on oh's in my room. Even the Harvey Gerst recommended Behringer ECM8000's sound good in my room on overhead (blah on acoustic guitar).

Bottom line, get a deal going to try some in your room, with a dealer who will let you swap out a few different mics with the assurance you're going to buy something. Guitar center carries the Oktavas, the cheapo Behringers and the Groove Tubes recommended by another poster. Buy a pair and try/swap/etc.

[sonic dogg]

I'm with John's original post....The SM81's are by far a superior mic in as much as they do many jobs very well.The Octavas are a bit dicey with the QC so if you decide to try them, go through a bunch before you take em home. The newer 451's are kinda fizzy to my ear but I love the older ones....The Grace pre is going to be very very clean on the drums...it will work but you'll get zero 'attitude' from it... just exactly whats going in....

[dale116dot7]

I've used AT Pro37R, C451B, MC012 and AT4033 as overheads. C451B's are super-bright but a bit of HF cut (about 3dB) in the preamp makes them a lot closer to the old 451's. I don't mind the MC012's on overheads, but they are more critical to placement than the 451B's.

[jdier]

Originally posted by halcyo
Someone recommended these as pretty decent mics for the price. I just bought myself a gretsch birch kit and now I need some mics to record it! I am looking to stay on the more budget side, but to be honest the oktava's seem almost too inexpensive, ya know? How are they? I am willing to spend a bit more than that, but hopefully (although probably difficult) under 500-600 bucks for the pair. I am willing to buy used I suppose. I need some mic help on a drum set basically, and you guys have always come through. I need a pair of overheads, a bass drum mic, and some sm57's.

I currently own a soundelux u195 and a studio projects c1 and a couple of dynamic mics. Here's what I've been looking at:

Overheads: Oktava mk012, Shure Sm81 or Pg81, NEED SUGGESTIONS and ideas. I want something that is nice, but I can't spend alot.

Kick: AKG d112, Shure Beta 52 (I kinda dig the d112, I've used it before), and I've heard that my u195 is killer about a foot or two away from the kick.

NOTE: Please be specific on model numbers and who makes them. I am not a mic expert, so when somebody gives me a number without a company name, I'm kinda lost!

I am not a pro, but I am currently recording kit with Oktava012 overheads, Shure57 and Sennseheiser421 on snare (and a Shure beta57 on bottom) and a AKG112 and Shure Beta 52 in the kick.

I track them all through my Aardvark Q10 except the overheads which run through my RNP into my Q10 (bypassing the Q10 pres)

Since I am not a drummer, I have to bring people in, so I have more mics up than I use, and I make choices during the mix down on which to use. In most of these recordings I am using only 5 mics: mostly the 012's, with the beta57 and 421 to fill out the sound. I also had a Studio Projects C3 up at the back of the room which I feed into a small room reverb and add it to pull the set together.

I have one project done:
http://www.danwhitaker.com/real/closeup.ram
(this one has a real old time country flavor, so the kit has a decidedly small sound.

My personal project (which I am still doing tracking on) has a little bit more open drum sounds. You can hear some rough mixes here: www.soundclick.com/drspark

There is an article somewhere (or a sting of posts) detailing what I remember as "mixerman's drum recording method" or maybe "overhead phase" It covers a pile of good ground related to micing drums.

I would strongly suggest the AKG112 which you can easily get for $200 new or about $125 on ebay if you are patient. I am also very pleased with the SM57 for snare, but the Senn421 is really nice for a fuller/deeper sound (in my experience.) I have two Studio Projects B1's and I personally do NOT like them on toms or any other drums (just never really got them to sound right) but a lot of people on these boards swear by them.

My Oktava 012's play a big role in my drum mixes. I start with the overhead sound and build up from there (which I guess is not the most common or intuitive way to do it) but I find that I end up with the best "kit" sound when I start there. The snare and kick are always pretty darn good sounding if you have well tuned drums, it is all the rest that can be tough (for a beginner like me.)

I have heard a lot about quality control problems but my two (ordered from some web outlet) sound very similar to one another and lead to a well balanced sound. Worth all $200!

Jim

[jdier]

Here is that explanation:

http://www.recording.org/ftopict-9909-.html

[sloanfiske]

yea.