Pro Tools LE Newbie....Some Questions on Gear & SetUp

[shaun]

Hi All,

I have been reading about Pro Tool LE/M Powered since January '08 and now I have come to post my first thread here on Gearslutz to let you all know where I'm at. I am soon ready to make my first purchase and wanted to know about anyone's thoughts to this setup/gear and would this be a good starting point?

If for example any of the suggested gear you think could be upgraded or changed for something else better, please let me know as I want to purchase the 'best' affordable first home studio setup that I can afford to buy at present.

I will be using the gear mainly to record live rehearsals at home with the electronic kit with my band and hopefully then put out some 'studio' type sounding demos in the future!

We currently consists of:

1 Vocal, Bass, Guitar and Drums. (live kit will be used for proper demos)


COMPUTER:
iMac, 2.16ghz intel core 2 duo, 3gb Ram, 10.4.11. (Currently will be using to run PT)

LOOKING TO PURCHASE:
003 Rack or other Interface, maybe from M Audio?

External Hard drive - Do I need 2 of these?

Mackie MR8, Mackie HR824mr2, Adam A7 or any other monitors you think I should look into? My recording/rehearsal space is quite small....about 2.7m (width) and 3.4m (length).



The music I will be recording mainly will be a mix of classic rock, pop, punk elements. (MCR, Paramore type style).

MANY THANKS!

[narcoman]

Well - I've got a couple of TDM HD rigs here as well as three LE set ups for editing and taking stuff out of the studio. I gotta say - If I was starting up now I wouldnt be looking at Protools at all. It's a great system - TDM is awesome. LE less so..... capable, but there are better options, I'm just used to it as I've been with it since day 1.

Now - we also have two Nuendo setups here - I'd seriously look at its baby brother - Cubase - it finally has proper routing.

I quite like Logic 8 also - you get a LOT for your money.....

Now - I'm a big Protools fan - primarily through TDM - I also like LE but ONLY because it enables my team to carry on using one system through edits without me having to buy 5 TDM rigs. If I was setting up now, I may well go a different route - there are so many very capable and excellent open market options at better pricing and with better options for extension. For example - with Logic or Cubase you could extend the system as you go/can afford. With PT LE you're kind of locked into to what you buy initially - awkward to get better converters, for example. LE is a capable system, but "Protools", in the sense of what you can do with a TDM rig it, aint.

Check out Logic. I have the Logic Express on our office/chill lounge Mac mini and it works like a dream.

[uncle duncan]

You also might check out Motu. At least, with a Motu interface, you can set up 4 independent headphone mixes at zero latency. With the OO3, the headphone mixes are possible, but not at zero latency. There are so many drawbacks to PTLE, if it wasn't for the PT name, no one would buy it. Seriously.

The only reason to use PTLE is if you're integrating your projects with a PT studio, but even then, if you're working in Cubase, or Motu Digital Performer, you can save your file as OMF or AAF, and let the PT studio open it. They have the capability to do that, but they don't want you to know about it, because either: A- they're too stingy to pay for Digitranslator - the Digi program that allows OMF/AAf functionality, or: B- they've had problems with opening OMF files in the past.

OMF files are not rocket science, but there are a multitude of choices to make when saving a file in OMF format. The trick is to try different combinations, keeping copious notes. That's how you find out what works and what doesn't. If everyone did this, OMF would have a much better reputation for reliability. There's also the Broadcast Wave format. If your daw can use that format, PT can open the files without doing any kind of file conversion (assuming you're just doing audio, and you're not exporting your plugins with the project.)

Last I heard, motu interfaces came with an audio-only version of their DAW software, and the latest version of their software (DP6) has the Broadcast Wave format option, which would make their sessions PT compatible. (I think Cubase can also use Broadcast Wave format.)

Motu's newest interface includes effects on input channels - reverb, EQ, compression, whatever. This can be very helpful for a singer who wants reverb on the vocal while tracking. Plus, all these non-PT DAWs are open-ended. There is no track limit, there is no limit to adding inputs/outputs down the line. With PTLE, you're limited to 18 inputs with the 003. You can never have more than 18 inputs. It's a joke.

You can also never have more than 32 tracks in your project, unless you pay an extra $500 or whatever it is for the ability to have a total of 48 tracks. You can have 100 tracks, 200 tracks in non-PT DAW's, and with the power of computers these days, 100 tracks is completely possible without your Mac bogging down.

For your use - recording audio, Motu Digital Performer might be a better choice than Logic, since the audio side of DP is pretty intuitive and uncomplicated (plus there is a graphic pitch-correction window for fixing out of tune vocals - a feature you'd have to pay extra for in Logic) but for composition with loops and virtual instruments, (midi instruments inside the computer) Logic would be the winner.

Digidesign is all about PTHD, which is why they cripple PTLE. They want you to upgrade to a $10K PTHD rig. Plus, plugins for PT cost more than the same plugins for Mac AU (the generic mac plugin format.) PTLE is a dysfunctional, dead end money pit. Proceed at your own risk.

[johnnyjellybean]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Well - I've got a couple of TDM HD rigs here as well as three LE set ups for editing and taking stuff out of the studio. I gotta say - If I was starting up now I wouldnt be looking at Protools at all. It's a great system - TDM is awesome. LE less so..... capable, but there are better options, I'm just used to it as I've been with it since day 1.

Now - we also have two Nuendo setups here - I'd seriously look at its baby brother - Cubase - it finally has proper routing.

I quite like Logic 8 also - you get a LOT for your money.....

Now - I'm a big Protools fan - primarily through TDM - I also like LE but ONLY because it enables my team to carry on using one system through edits without me having to buy 5 TDM rigs. If I was setting up now, I may well go a different route - there are so many very capable and excellent open market options at better pricing and with better options for extension. For example - with Logic or Cubase you could extend the system as you go/can afford. With PT LE you're kind of locked into to what you buy initially - awkward to get better converters, for example. LE is a capable system, but "Protools", in the sense of what you can do with a TDM rig it, aint.

Check out Logic. I have the Logic Express on our office/chill lounge Mac mini and it works like a dream.

I gotta say I agree although it's my 1st day with Protools LE. I have been a Nuendo guy for the past 3 years and am currently working with Nuendo 4. I just finished loading in LE tonight and after messing with it for a few hours I feel like I'm working with handcuffs on. Very limited. Anyway, if a client asks.... yes I have it.

[narcoman]

exactly - TDM has its (huge) advantages - and whilst LE is capable, it isn't TDM.

All systems have their pro's and con's - in todays market there are many options..... it is difficult to see how, in anything but a tracking environment, that PT has anything over other products. Even though I love it and find it liberating rather than "hands tied" !! Perception is a personal thing and for me PT is the best - I just don't think I can make that recommendation for someone who is about to jump in.

[shaun]

Many thanks guys for helping me out regarding my first purchase.


Just curious (you've probably discussed this many times before!) as I'm more towards going for the PT LE route at the moment...?

What is the difference between HD and TDM?

And as I'm planning in recording just vocals, bass, guitar and drums for now, possibly some midi type stuff in the future, which out of the below DAW's in your opinion/s will be best for me in the long run? I'm not planning on doing this for a career or anything, but simply recording some great sounding stuff to use as demos etc for my band.

Cubase
Nuendo
Pro Tools LE / M Powered (can't afford HD right now)

Also, is PT LE really that stripped down and limited?

What's it like compared to Cubase and other DAW's?

Or any other recording software I should look into?


Cheers
Shaun

[tubeman]

i've found omf-ing into pro tools to be a bit of a headache...panning, automation, certain soundbytes here and there moving here and there, 2 gB limit, sample rate linearity, etc. can get in the way. just another problem with connecting PT with other DAWs.

in a nutshell, i'd say if you're gonna work independently, get logic or dp and a non-digi interface.

if you're planning to work with, or work for, other studios (and don't know what they are using) now or in the near future, get PT UNLESS you know that you'll be going over 32 tracks of simultaneous play. digidesign has cut the toolkits prices in half if you're a student to let you go to 48, but that's for another thread. the limit can be a pain.

[tubeman]

Originally Posted by shaun

I'm not planning on doing this for a career or anything, but simply recording some great sounding stuff to use as demos etc for my band.

I didn't see this before.

I'd say Logic would be great bet. If you have a midi controller, there's a ton of samples/engines that come bundled with Logic Studio. It's actually pretty crazy what they give you.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by shaun

Many thanks guys for helping me out regarding my first purchase.


Just curious (you've probably discussed this many times before!) as I'm more towards going for the PT LE route at the moment...?

What is the difference between HD and TDM?

And as I'm planning in recording just vocals, bass, guitar and drums for now, possibly some midi type stuff in the future, which out of the below DAW's in your opinion/s will be best for me in the long run? I'm not planning on doing this for a career or anything, but simply recording some great sounding stuff to use as demos etc for my band.

Cubase
Nuendo
Pro Tools LE / M Powered (can't afford HD right now)

Also, is PT LE really that stripped down and limited?

What's it like compared to Cubase and other DAW's?

Or any other recording software I should look into?


Cheers
Shaun

HD is the current TDM system - basic system, with MAC, is around $15,000. Worthwhile system, double that.

LE - in capable hands you can do a lot. Peeder, for example, gets on with it very well - but he knows his onions. I can't recommend PT LE to someone just for messing with. In all the areas you'll want to mess around with - it's not got as many bells and whistles as other systems. HOWEVER - in my opinion, inprofessional use, it is the best. But professional requirements are very different to demoing your bands material Logic express would be a good choice.

[maxpidge]

just get pro-tools m-powered and a m-audio projectmix i/o, 8 xlr inputs, it will do every thing you will ever need for doing your bands demos easily... ignore the cretans who want to argue whats best and start making music...

[docbop]

I'm kind of in the same looking for inexpensive ProTools setup because I got a job somewhere that uses PT. My own system is Logic with FF800 and love it. Logic is geared towards the composer and comes with tons of loops, plug-ins, instruments, and other extras very easy to learn to use. Logic's design is gear toward the composer, but it can do anything.

Where I'm working now uses a PT HD system, so I am looking for a small PT LE system to get up to speed on and do editing with. Main frustration is PT forces you to buy their hardware either MBox or M-Audio, neither are very good. So basically your buying a dongle to run PT. I would say if dead set on PT buy a used 002 rack since it can interface with a lot of gear. Then if happy later on get the Black Lion upgrades. As others have said there are better choices for the money.

Also you are talking about hanging a lot of external gear off that iMac you have to be careful managing how you use those ports. Avoid daisy chaining and mixing slow and fast FW or else they all will run slow.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by maxpidge

just get pro-tools m-powered and a m-audio projectmix i/o, 8 xlr inputs, it will do every thing you will ever need for doing your bands demos easily... ignore the cretans who want to argue whats best and start making music...

it's cretin. Cretans would be from Crete.

He asked about systems, he's showing consternation. I don't want him to spend money needlessly when he could spend very little.

That okay by you?