$1500 to spend on pre-amp + converter ... advice?

[gatturio]

OK, it's not really that simple, but maybe it will be for you. I have $1500 to dedicate to upgrading my small home studio. I am currently using an mbox 2 with pro tools le and looking to add 2 s/pdif inputs to it (as I said, small). I currently am interning at a studio, and they always talk about how poor the converters and the pre's in the mbox are (although I think they've only used the older model). Anyway, I've decided to upgrade my converters while adding a decent-sounding 2 channel pre-amp.

I have realized that there are a few ways to go about this: 1) buy a 2 ch. A/D converter (with s/pdif out), and put a 2 channel mic-pre before it (or 2 single channel mic-pre's); 2) they actually make whole two channel pre-amp units with A/D conversion built in (s/pdif out and all); 3) get two single channel pre-amps with s/pdif in and out and daisy chain them together, and ultimately to the mbox (now we're getting crazy).

Ultimately I realize that in these "all-in-one" units you lose a little bit of control over what you are buying because you could be getting a great pre-amp and poor converter (or vice-versa). Basically I am looking to add the most quality to my setup, by getting 2 channels of "better-than-mbox" pre's and "better-than-mbox" converters, and I have $1500 to spend.

Units that seem like they are matching my description (let me know what you think of these but I'm open to many recommendations):

-Audient Mico (how good are the pre's and converters?)
-Grace Design LunaTec V3 (maybe paying for portability?)
-SM Pro Audio ADDA 192 Analog/Digital Converter ($500, sweet. would be looking to add 2 channels of pre-amp before it).

It's funny because it's actually a tough price point and there isn't that much in it. Most of the 2 channel pre's in that price range don't have converters in them (understandably so.) I appreciate you help!

[TheChariot]

I'm gonna be honest with you... it all sounds like a huge pain in the butt to me. Just upgrade the whole damn system and get your $1500 worth.

$700 will get you an M-Audio ProFire 2626. It's not a friggon Apogee, but it's most certainly a step up from the MBox. Better pres and converters, at least to my ears. Oh.... and there's 8 of each. You can run M-Powered Pro Tools if you wished.

If you're one of the many who don't trust M-Audio, you can get a Presonus Firestudio for $700 or so. Track into Logic or another program, and then mix in PT.

Or hell, you can get a used 002 for about $600 these days. Why not? Then you have $900 left for an solid pre (preferably one with ADAT I/O).

If you're spending $1500, I see no reason to keep it small unless you have portability issues.

[gatturio]

Originally Posted by TheChariot

you can get a used 002 for about $600 these days.

Really? Where?? Most people and places I've seen selling used 002's unfortunately are trying to unload PT software as well, so they jack the price up to over $1k. I wish I could just buy the unit off someone.

Anyway, an overhaul does sound like a good idea, I actually do have Digital Performer as well, and was thinking about getting a MOTU converter. It's just that dang learning curve...

Any others?

[floydisbest]

Yeah, you can get those for $6-700 lately.

Here
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...r-classifieds/

or here
digi 002, Pro Audio, Musical Instruments items on eBay.com


If you wanna keep it small, maybe try an Apogee Mini-Me, where you'll have 2 kicka$$ channels of conversion that you can hookup through the mbox-

[gatturio]

Yea, that Apogee Mini-Me A/D unit looks like it might be the way to go. Upgrading to the 002 is of course a possibility, but does anyone know how much better the converters and pre's are in the 002 than the mbox? If this is a stupid question I apologize, you just never know what kind of components Digi is really putting in their units (or at least I don't.)

[rackdude]

I'd get an api a2d if you can get the money. Or a focusrite isa with a digital card.

[Svens]

I've had an Apogee Rosetta (the older one) for years, and they still sound great. I guess you can get em for $500. If you're lucky, you'll find one with the 96kHz option in it. Maybe complement it with a DAV BG preamp?

Good luck, let us know
Sven

[jbjoubaud]

I thought I see a lot more API a2d here....
Anyway here's my +1 on it

[irthwirm]

I would also recommend BlackLion. Buy the digi 002 for 600 and I'm sure you can upgrade it with the rest of the money. I'm really eye'n their little converter the "sparrow". They have sound samples on their website too. The difference is huge if you have a good monitoring system. I've heard nothing but good things about their mods.

I had an apogee mini me. Worked pretty good but I didn't get good head room on the pre's. But for the price they're pretty solid. If you can get one for 500 do it. My mic didn't have a pad and neither did my mini me so when sources got too loud i had to back them up sometimes farther then i wanted but i had no choice.

For the a2d can anyone conclude that those converters are REally good. I've heard that they are okay and if that's the case then i wouldn't think it would be worth it except the for the api pre's but i would rather get a lunch box where i could add other pre's and run that into a 2 channel converter like the black lion sparrow for the nearly the same price

[Phrygian]

API A2D

[Retinal]

EDIT: Wrong post sorry..

just wanted to say +1 for API AD2

[Roc Mixwell]

Back on topic.....

I would HIGHLY recommend saving a bit and getting the API A2D. Its hard to beat the quality of those preamps and when matched with the AD converter that is built to sound exactly like the 312 preamp inside the unit.......the Quality is tremendous. You'll have better depth, and certainly better headroom with the AD converter on the A2D when compared to the M-Box or M-Audio units mentioned above.

My advice would be to go with something that you'll never outgrow.....Going for the M-Audio toy would be a sideways move in my opinion. It might be better than the M-Box [what is'nt] but its still something you'll find yourself wanting to replace down the line. I could be totally wrong, but i-m-e the M-Audio stuff is nightmarishly atrocious when it comes to driver stability and sound quality.

[BLUElightCory]

Another vote for the API.

Adam is right. Go for something you won't outgrow. The API is world-class, professional level gear. Your studio bosses will approve.

[irthwirm]

can i stress that going for the a2d means adding new preamps will appose a problem because your converter can only be used for the internal api pre's. So you would have to get another converter. As i suggested a lunch box with 2 api 512's or any 500 series pre's (MA5's) and a blacklion sparrow AD. If you want just one pre and don't want to upgrade or is considering selling it down the road then yeah that would be a great option.

Basically in the short run It's a great deal but if you looking to upgrade down the line you'll have these great converters that you can only use with the api's

Just something to consider.

(or am i wrong on this, is there a way to by pass the pres and go straight for the converters)

[thkaiser]

API A2D it will not disappoint you.

[Yung]

I personally would go api a2d way before a black lion sparrow. If your not to big on the conversion of the api a2d maybe look into a a-design 500 series 2 slot rack with a 500 series pre amp of your choice and a mytek ad which would set you over about the same amount.

good luck and have fun.

[TheChariot]

As you can see there's two paths. The balance lies between inputs and conversion quality.

My advice also comes from the perspective of a young engineer who's just recently climbed the studio ladder. You CAN get a great sound from an interface with expansive I/O. And if you have that capability then you can do more of your own work and meet more people. My first clients were a band that I recorded in their practice space for $50. All they wanted was a demo so that they could critique their performances better. It's 3 months later, and now we're in talks about entering the studio to work on their first album.

I only mention that because you've mentioned that you're an intern, which leads me to believe that you're after things like that. If you are, then your capabilities are a factor. The engineers at your studio won't think your ready to run sessions because you have a sweet converter. They'll think you're ready when musicians want to record with you. Just my 2 cents.

With that being said.... the A2D is sweet as hell and there's not many other pieces out there that can eff with it's quality.

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by irthwirm

can i stress that going for the a2d means adding new preamps will appose a problem because your converter can only be used for the internal api pre's. So you would have to get another converter. As i suggested a lunch box with 2 api 512's or any 500 series pre's (MA5's) and a blacklion sparrow AD. If you want just one pre and don't want to upgrade or is considering selling it down the road then yeah that would be a great option.

Basically in the short run It's a great deal but if you looking to upgrade down the line you'll have these great converters that you can only use with the api's

Just something to consider.

(or am i wrong on this, is there a way to by pass the pres and go straight for the converters)

There is most certainly a way to use the on-board AD converter with other Line Level Signals. The "Insert to the AD" 1/4 Jack on the Back, breaks the feed from the analog 312 pre, so as to use the Analog direct outputs to a compressor and BACK to the AD.

I see NO reason why you can't use that input with other +4 analog equipment. It actually sounds GREAT, but keep in mind, the AD converter is built to sound EXACTLY like the 312 preamps, so its FAST, CLEAR and very PUNCHY.....Its a great AD converter all the way around. You can also take LINE signals from other pre's or sources into the LINE IN 312 analog stage on the front of the unit as a final gain adjustment for your tone.....Then you don't have to patch anything.

[useme2305]

wouldn't the a2d rule out any option to use outboard effects on the way in? i can't spot any insterts on the unit.

[kingsize 13]

+1
for the a2d from api.

save some money and get this thing... there is no comparison to the mbox2

[swafford]

If your on a Mac, take a look at the Metric Halo ULN2.

[Gdub]

This may not be entirely helpful but...

If you're on a Mac, I'd give a good, serious look to the Apogee Ensemble. It goes for around 2k, for which you get 10 digital I/O and 8 analog I/O, which feature preamps on 4 of the inputs. Many people will say that the preamps alone are worth the price of the unit, and I would tend to agree. It sounds like you're running PT LE, so you would need to take advantage of the Ensemble's internal routing, to send audio out the S/PDIF or ADAT outputs, and then into PT.

Hope this helps

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by useme2305

wouldn't the a2d rule out any option to use outboard effects on the way in? i can't spot any insterts on the unit.

The "Inserts to the AD" are just that.......................

Read my above post again. It may become clearer.

If you are using the API 312 microphone preamps, and you want to use an external EQ/Comp/EFX box whatever after it, you simply patch out of the analog outputs of the microphone preamp, and into your outboard and then patch the resulting output into the "insert to the AD" which BREAKS the FEED from the analog output of the microphone preamplifier to the AD converter.

[for you newbies; thats a FULL NORMAL...I suggest you look it up] This achieves "insert capability" for the preamp. Its not your standard "insert send and return" but by this definition, its most certainly an Insert point.

Its just not in-between the input/output stages of the microphone preamplifier....The Insert to the AD can also be used with any +4 line level signal.

[CharlieSFS]

Well you already have PT LE so if you can find one of thoses $600 002's that someone else mentioned, you could spend another $500 and send it to get modded by Black Lion Audio:

Digidesign Digi 002 mod

I've heard amazing things about their work. So thats one route to go and with those projected numbers, it would still leave you a few hundred bucks to buy some sort of preamp. Up to you though. This is just another option and all the other ones presented thus far sound like they would work great as well. Just depends on which route you want to go down.

[TonyBelmont]

Get the A2D!

[abhibad]

Well,
preamps on mbox are bad, converters are decent. Using api a2d will give you much more headroom than an mbox-2, so if you like the API sound the best, go for it....According to me a2d is very good...the only problem i had , was using the converters alone with another preamp..but it might have been a setup problem(the problem was i was not getting anough signal out of a2d)...i'd suggest if you can try one it will be good, you can judge it yourself.

[soundrick]

A2D all the way

Get on the phone and talk to the dealers and be charming, you'll get one closer to your budget.

[gatturio]

wow, i abandoned this thread a while ago because i wasn't getting a wide range of responses, but thanks to everyone who has responded since then!

seems like the a2d is the way to go. i like the fact that you can run inserts into it (feeding the signal out of analog output, and back into the pre-converter insert ... to answer anyones question, i downloaded the pdf sheet). the studio peeps seem to agree with the a2d, although they are pushing for me to get on board with the api 500 series stuff. their argument being that analog equipment never depreciates, while digital stuff at some point starts to become obsolete. however, i think the pre's in that unit are worth the money alone, and i would save a ton compared to getting 2 512 units plus a black lion 2 ch. converter. the savings is a little over $700. but if it's done gradually it seems to make more sense in the long run.

then again, i haven't heard a bad thing about this a2d unit. and from what i hear, api doesn't make anything that is less than awesome. if this thing sounds anything close to the 512s used at the studio i work at, then why not? i do this for fun.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by gatturio

then again, i haven't heard a bad thing about this a2d unit. and from what i hear, api doesn't make anything that is less than awesome. if this thing sounds anything close to the 512s used at the studio i work at, then why not? i do this for fun.

The preamps are virtually the same as the 512's units.

[runamuck]

Get a used Apogee Trak2.