Using an analog console as a sidecar for FX into a digital console???

Terry McInturff · 1st July 2008

Hello all,

Im about to get a venerable Panasonic Ramsa WR- DA7 desk again. This will render my analog Tascam M2600 useless...or maybe not.

In re-reading DA7-oriented articles from the late '90's, I noticed that the very impressive Greg Landanyi was tracking major label stuff with the DA7...and was using a Mackie CR-1604 for submixing FX into the DA7.

I feel that my old M2600 could fill the same role as the Mackie...but why do this?

The DA7 has 6 aux sends and returns (two of each via SPDIF, the other 4 unbalanced 1/4" I/O), with PEQ on the returns.

Why would Greg use a sidecar (CR-1604) for submixing FX back into the DA7?

Please explain why doing so would expand the possibilities...describe the signal path for the various FX....and tell me what the advantage of using a "sidecar" is for this purpose.. vs...simply using the DA7's built-in aux send/aux return setup.

I have a good bit of analog outboard that I want to use.

When answering, please keep in mind that the analog inserts on the DA7 are inactive-per-playback-channel, ie, after the track is recorded the individul channel inserts do not work any longer.

Many thanks in advance!

I want to be able to use my outboard to the max including mixing down.

Terry McInturff · 1st July 2008

uncle duncan · 1st July 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry McInturff

.... the analog inserts on the DA7 are inactive-per-playback-channel, ie, after the track is recorded the individul channel inserts do not work any longer..

Are you sure about that? On my Yamaha 01V96, inserts can be patched into any channel, whether or not it's coming back in via digital.

If the effect returns on the board are mono, that would explain the use of an external board - getting stereo returns from all 4, or 6 effect units. Plus, back then the SPX90 was quite popular - they all had their fave boxes they would use to get their sound.

Terry McInturff · 1st July 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

Are you sure about that? On my Yamaha 01V96, inserts can be patched into any channel, whether or not it's coming back in via digital.

If the effect returns on the board are mono, that would explain the use of an external board - getting stereo returns from all 4, or 6 effect units. Plus, back then the SPX90 was quite popular - they all had their fave boxes they would use to get their sound.

I am sure of that. The analog inserts are only active "going in".

Many thanks for your input! (pun intended). If I understand you correctly...the "stereo returns" that you are referring to are "faux" stereo, generated from a mono input, ala PCM70?

By the time the DA7 came along, I think that the SPX90 was still alive and being used, but mainly in FOH racks. The TC Electronics M2000 was current with the release of the DA7 and gained many fans.

I appreciate your responce, Uncle Duncan, and will greatly appreciate all other's as well.

alexgrignon · 1st July 2008

I'm curious about this as well. So would they run an Aux send out to a piece of gear and return it on two channels to the sidecar then stereo out of the sidecar to two channels on the main console (or an aux return)?

Or do you run a direct out on the channel on the main console to an input on the sidecar and get 4-6 more auxes?

Is the purpose to get more auxes or reduce the number of channels used on the main board for fx returns? ....or something else entirely.

thanks,
- alex

Terry McInturff · 1st July 2008

Rock on, Alex! Let's get some informed answers!

TAVD · 1st July 2008

Aside from gaining auxes & fx returns as Alex hinted at, you could potentially have a parallel "fx" track for every original, so you don't need to print fx during tracking. Sorry, I can't say what Greg Landanyi would've been doing.

Regarding the inserts, I think that's not too unusual. My old digital console was the same way. There was no internal routing to send the tape return back to line in. Makes sense since the inserts were part of the analog section, before hitting the adc and all routing was done digitally.

newfuturevintage · 2nd July 2008

in the stone ages when I had a promix and later an 01v, I had a 22 channel sidecar for f/x returns out of physical necessity: I was mixing between 16 and 24 channels of audio, and would typically have between 4 and 12 channels of returns, sometimes much more than that. Almost always more than the input count of either digital board.

JCRockit · 2nd September 2009

wow funny I was thinking the exact opposite. using the Yammy01v96 as a clean effect return sidecar into an analog console. Mackie with low headroom can get a bit wooly depending on how much you are slamming the FX units

noah330 · 3rd September 2009

Terry,

I had a DA-7 for years and it's a great console. I sold mine when I moved and was about to buy a new one when I got my DM-3200 open box for $1000.00.

Check out DA7.com it's a great forum (I still go a lot) with great people and if you own the console the folks there can help.

If you need a hard copy of the manual or the automation discs let me know, as I still have both kicking around.

Yes, Greg Landanyi did use the DA7 (see below for his room):

http://www.studioexpresso.com/profil...studio03sm.jpg

bkbirge · 17th September 2009

I still use my DA7 as my main board. I've got a little one rack 16 channel line mixer that I use for sequenced synths and extra effects returns. For me it's just a question of wanting to use the DA7 channels for tape returns. I've got the fx sends all wired up but sometimes you need more, + a single send often gets a stereo return and that eats up channel real estate fast. I used to have a mackie 1604vlz that served the same purpose but it was feature overkill for my needs and took up too much space. A quality line mixer is all I needed.

1st July 2008	#1
Terry McInturff Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pittsboro NC Posts: 543 Thread Starter	Using an analog console as a sidecar for FX into a digital console??? Hello all, Im about to get a venerable Panasonic Ramsa WR- DA7 desk again. This will render my analog Tascam M2600 useless...or maybe not. In re-reading DA7-oriented articles from the late '90's, I noticed that the very impressive Greg Landanyi was tracking major label stuff with the DA7...and was using a Mackie CR-1604 for submixing FX into the DA7. I feel that my old M2600 could fill the same role as the Mackie...but why do this? The DA7 has 6 aux sends and returns (two of each via SPDIF, the other 4 unbalanced 1/4" I/O), with PEQ on the returns. Why would Greg use a sidecar (CR-1604) for submixing FX back into the DA7? Please explain why doing so would expand the possibilities...describe the signal path for the various FX....and tell me what the advantage of using a "sidecar" is for this purpose.. vs...simply using the DA7's built-in aux send/aux return setup. I have a good bit of analog outboard that I want to use. When answering, please keep in mind that the analog inserts on the DA7 are inactive-per-playback-channel, ie, after the track is recorded the individul channel inserts do not work any longer. Many thanks in advance! I want to be able to use my outboard to the max including mixing down. __________________ Terry McInturff President, Terry C. McInturff Guitars, Inc. www.mcinturffguitars.com www.thetcmforum.org tcmzodiac@yahoo.com 919-742-2958

1st July 2008	#2
Terry McInturff Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pittsboro NC Posts: 543 Thread Starter	bump

1st July 2008	#7
TAVD Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,368	Aside from gaining auxes & fx returns as Alex hinted at, you could potentially have a parallel "fx" track for every original, so you don't need to print fx during tracking. Sorry, I can't say what Greg Landanyi would've been doing. Regarding the inserts, I think that's not too unusual. My old digital console was the same way. There was no internal routing to send the tape return back to line in. Makes sense since the inserts were part of the analog section, before hitting the adc and all routing was done digitally. __________________ Tom Denyle Custom Guitars

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1st July 2008	#5
alexgrignon Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 38	I'm curious about this as well. So would they run an Aux send out to a piece of gear and return it on two channels to the sidecar then stereo out of the sidecar to two channels on the main console (or an aux return)? Or do you run a direct out on the channel on the main console to an input on the sidecar and get 4-6 more auxes? Is the purpose to get more auxes or reduce the number of channels used on the main board for fx returns? ....or something else entirely. thanks, - alex

2nd July 2008	#8
newfuturevintage Gear nut Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 122	in the stone ages when I had a promix and later an 01v, I had a 22 channel sidecar for f/x returns out of physical necessity: I was mixing between 16 and 24 channels of audio, and would typically have between 4 and 12 channels of returns, sometimes much more than that. Almost always more than the input count of either digital board.

2nd September 2009	#9
JCRockit Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 986	wow funny I was thinking the exact opposite. using the Yammy01v96 as a clean effect return sidecar into an analog console. Mackie with low headroom can get a bit wooly depending on how much you are slamming the FX units

3rd September 2009	#10
noah330 Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 560	Terry, I had a DA-7 for years and it's a great console. I sold mine when I moved and was about to buy a new one when I got my DM-3200 open box for $1000.00. Check out DA7.com it's a great forum (I still go a lot) with great people and if you own the console the folks there can help. If you need a hard copy of the manual or the automation discs let me know, as I still have both kicking around. Yes, Greg Landanyi did use the DA7 (see below for his room): http://www.studioexpresso.com/profil...studio03sm.jpg

17th September 2009	#11
bkbirge Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Houston Posts: 1,233	I still use my DA7 as my main board. I've got a little one rack 16 channel line mixer that I use for sequenced synths and extra effects returns. For me it's just a question of wanting to use the DA7 channels for tape returns. I've got the fx sends all wired up but sometimes you need more, + a single send often gets a stereo return and that eats up channel real estate fast. I used to have a mackie 1604vlz that served the same purpose but it was feature overkill for my needs and took up too much space. A quality line mixer is all I needed.