Login / Register
 
F tha 3:1 rule
New Reply
Subscribe
PaRaNoId
Thread Starter
#1
8th November 2004
Old 8th November 2004
  #1
Lives for gear
 
PaRaNoId's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 575

Thread Starter
PaRaNoId is offline
F tha 3:1 rule

Yeah...I've officially declared it baloney. Bush's statement will officially be delayed until wednesday. After extensive testing of various mic configs in various rooms/spaces, I and Us (my ballz) have decided that there is much more involved in stereo/multi-chan--OH/ room miking than anything as vague as the 3:1 rule.

SERIOUSLY, After disreguarding the classic advice and "RULES" of SDC vs. LDC, matched pair vs. diff mics, comp vs. dry, is when the truely beautiful tones show themselves.
__________________
It's not the tools, it's the talent...

Clients include- GIN BLOSSOMS, SOCIAL DISTORTION, FOSTER THE PEOPLE, HOT HOT HEAT, CAGE THE ELEPHANT, SILVER SUN PICKUPS, PHOENIX, DIRTY HEADS, FLY LEAF, ROGER CLYNE AND THE PACEMAKERS, BUSTICLES, ANDY GRAMMER and tons more....
#2
8th November 2004
Old 8th November 2004
  #2
Moderator
 
DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,463

DrDeltaM is offline
Screw rules
Just make it sound good
#3
8th November 2004
Old 8th November 2004
  #3
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,063

5down1up is offline
that rules is a cool idea

you can have tons of combinations even with just one mic and its patterns ( if there are some of course ) .
would love to read more bout it instead of " the holy pre thread number 6.341.789 "

#4
9th November 2004
Old 9th November 2004
  #4
Gear addict
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Culver City
Posts: 451

logichead is offline
The 3:1 rule comes from a time before it was possible to easily time align signals. Today you can slap a sample delay on a track and start shifting.


Best...H
#5
9th November 2004
Old 9th November 2004
  #5
Gear Guru
 
tINY's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 11,848

tINY is online now


Hell, tracks are cheap these days, use 8 to 15 omni mics randomly thrown around the room and record them all. You can change delay, phase, level, and EQ later and fix it in the mix....





-tINY

#6
9th November 2004
Old 9th November 2004
  #6
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,063

5down1up is offline
set it up right till you like it , thats where the time should be spend . and you safe a lot of your nervs & time !

if you really know what your doing , you might be able to fix it .

i am not ... so at least i make sure i like the sound i record .

you cant make step2 before step1
#7
15th November 2004
Old 15th November 2004
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Chris Parsons's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 712

Send a message via AIM to Chris Parsons
Chris Parsons is offline
3:1 dosen't have anything to do with stereo right? It's just a rule of thumb if you are mixing to mono.

I think...
#8
15th November 2004
Old 15th November 2004
  #8
Gear maniac
 
SpaceChild's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: UK/FI
Posts: 194

SpaceChild is offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Parsons
3:1 dosen't have anything to do with stereo right? It's just a rule of thumb if you are mixing to mono.
Yeah, in practice. The 3:1-rule is for minimizing phase problems which usually aren't perceived as problems when the channels are panned wide around the stereo field. But the problems are still there. Besides, you are potentially 'mixing to mono' every time the material is played on radio.


Spacey
PaRaNoId
Thread Starter
#9
15th November 2004
Old 15th November 2004
  #9
Lives for gear
 
PaRaNoId's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 575

Thread Starter
PaRaNoId is offline
the main reason i posted this was that after trying so many different types of "typical" stereo configs and drum mic setups, including the whole polarity-switching thing...I found that odd setups, with complete disreguard for sound theory and mic teqnique gave me the most realistic sounds. For example, alot of times when using a top and bottom snare mic, i will leave both polarities alone. It thins out the sound, but sometimes its all the EQ i need for a particular mix. Another example- omni and subcardioid mic patterns are crazy unpredictable when and where they might cancel each other out. General theory would say not to use omnis in an XY pattern (especially in a smaller rooom). But ya know what? I use that excat config more often than not...Why? Cuz it sounds better when compared to cardioids in spaced pair or even an ORTF at distance.

I laugh at the fact that at 99% of all live performances and on "studio" music videos (on drum kits) you see a spaced pair being used with LDCs. Why is it? Probably because it looks cool or something. Because that's they way they learned to do it and like a sheep are just going with the herd. (herd of sheep? flock?) I'm rambling and I'm cutting myself off...
#10
15th November 2004
Old 15th November 2004
  #10
Gear maniac
 
SpaceChild's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: UK/FI
Posts: 194

SpaceChild is offline
How are those related to the 3:1-rule?


Spacey
PaRaNoId
Thread Starter
#11
15th November 2004
Old 15th November 2004
  #11
Lives for gear
 
PaRaNoId's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 575

Thread Starter
PaRaNoId is offline
hmmm pumpkins

the 3:1 rule as I understand it explains that when miking something in stereo, the mics should be three times as far way from each other; as they are from the source. This supposedly helps reduce phase cancellations AND summing-to-mono weirdness. My discussion of the mic tecniques are referring to NOT following this rule. I hope I cleared things up!
#12
15th November 2004
Old 15th November 2004
  #12
Gear maniac
 
SpaceChild's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: UK/FI
Posts: 194

SpaceChild is offline
Yeah, no worries, I was just being daft. In your post you just mentioned that when 'using a top and bottom snare mic, i will leave both polarities alone' and using 'omnis in an XY pattern.' Both techniques where you're not necessarily breaking the 3:1-rule by doing what you do. But it's alright, I think we all got it anyway


Spacey
#13
16th November 2004
Old 16th November 2004
  #13
Gear Guru
 
tINY's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 11,848

tINY is online now


Um, omni's in a x-y config????

Did you ever try that one with the phase reversed on one of the mics?





-tINY

PaRaNoId
Thread Starter
#14
16th November 2004
Old 16th November 2004
  #14
Lives for gear
 
PaRaNoId's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 575

Thread Starter
PaRaNoId is offline
omnis in XY...yes, i do

what are you trying to say there tiny?

And yes I've tried it! (not with any usable results though....)
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
superburtm / So much gear, so little time!
45
thejook / So much gear, so little time!
12
londontown / High end
10
Bart-Jan / So much gear, so little time!
13
Pro Toolz LE / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
0

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.