Please help, Mackie Onyx questions

[Patrick5150]

First of all, hello to everybody , this is my first post, though I've been lurking for a couple weeks and learning alot.

My recording experience has been a Firebox and a Line6 for a few years, as I'm primarily a guitar player. My band and I have decided to do some recording of our own, and I'm going to be the one learning the ropes.

I was lucky enough to pick up a Mackie Onyx 1640 and afterwards the firewire card recently. I'm using it with a lower-end PC, but will be building a new rig this weekend. I've used the Mackie to do some drum tracking just to mess around, and it seems to work great.

What I didn't know when I picked it up was that the firewire output on the mixer was post trim and pre everything else...keep in mind I'm a total noob here. I recorded 12 channels on the kit IIRC, into Cubase SL3, and then mixed in the box.

What I'm wondering is, is this the best way to use this mixer as a piece of recording gear? It seems like I could accomplish the same thing with 2 units of rack gear for less money, and the mixer is borrowed right now so I'm not locked into it if there is a better way. Is there a way to send the recorded tracks back to the board for mixing, or am I better off just working in the box? I've never even added any plug-ins to Cubase since I got it, so I've just been working with the limited plugs that came with the program.

It seems like just using the board for a 16 pre interface and that's it is not using the board to it's potential, and that's where I'm hoping you guys can edumucate me.

Any and all responses appreciated, and remember I'm a complete noob, so completely obvious things to anybody with a functional brain may not click right away.

[erich]

the onyx will only send two channels back to the board, the stereo mains from whatever daw youre recording in. (trackion, if you're using the one that came with the firewire option)

the 16 channels on the firewire bus are indeed pre eq, fader, etc.; right after the initial gain stage.

if you have pods or something to juice the other instruments first, you could just use the mic pres (which are pretty decent, imo) for tracking your drums. you would have to do most of your mixing itb, though. which isnt really a bad thing.

but no, the onyx series arent really "recording consoles." if that's what you're after, or if you get used to the idea of mixing on a daw, there are much better options. i just replaced my onyx and motu setup with an rme fireface 800 and im very happy with it.

[daverich]

Originally Posted by erich

the onyx will only send two channels back to the board, the stereo mains from whatever daw youre recording in. (trackion, if you're using the one that came with the firewire option)

the 16 channels on the firewire bus are indeed pre eq, fader, etc.; right after the initial gain stage.

if you have pods or something to juice the other instruments first, you could just use the mic pres (which are pretty decent, imo) for tracking your drums. you would have to do most of your mixing itb, though. which isnt really a bad thing.

but no, the onyx series arent really "recording consoles." if that's what you're after, or if you get used to the idea of mixing on a daw, there are much better options. i just replaced my onyx and motu setup with an rme fireface 800 and im very happy with it.

e

And I sold my Fireface 800 and bought the onyx1640 and I'm much happier with this

I guess it depends on your personal opinion. I LOVE being able to record live gigs so easily.. ( I also love the onyx's lower latency- dont believe the RME figures, the onyx is definitely lower)

Kind regards

Dave Rich

[macleodgrant]

i have the onyx 800r which is an 8 channel pre with AD converters but it's not a DAW interface so you would still need a basic interface to get signal into the DAW

the 800r is brilliant for a very wide variety of things (the same onyx pres)

[drbam]

Originally Posted by erich

. . . the 16 channels on the firewire bus are indeed pre eq, fader, etc.; right after the initial gain stage.

The 1640 can be modded for the FW and direct outputs to be post eq, which is what I'd want for studio only use. Clearly you'd have more options with the mixer but as others have indicated, its really a personal workflow decision that only you can make.

[erich]

Originally Posted by drbam

The 1640 can be modded for the FW and direct outputs to be post eq, which is what I'd want for studio only use. Clearly you'd have more options with the mixer but as others have indicated, its really a personal workflow decision that only you can make.

yeah, but you cant bring each track back to the board after recording, so you'd have to make final decisions about eq while tracking.

and yeah, i love the onyx for live sound. im getting no real latency with the fireface, though.

[Patrick5150]

Originally Posted by erich

the onyx will only send two channels back to the board, the stereo mains from whatever daw youre recording in. (trackion, if you're using the one that came with the firewire option)

the 16 channels on the firewire bus are indeed pre eq, fader, etc.; right after the initial gain stage.

if you have pods or something to juice the other instruments first, you could just use the mic pres (which are pretty decent, imo) for tracking your drums. you would have to do most of your mixing itb, though. which isnt really a bad thing.

but no, the onyx series arent really "recording consoles." if that's what you're after, or if you get used to the idea of mixing on a daw, there are much better options. i just replaced my onyx and motu setup with an rme fireface 800 and im very happy with it.

I'm using Cubase SL3

The Pod is just what I use at home with my Firebox for tracking song ideas or whatever; using this board in the band setting (which is at our practice space) I would be mic'ing up my 5150, and either mic'ing my bass players cab or taking the direct from his Pod live board.

I think you're saying that there are better interface options over the Onyx if I plan to mix itb, correct? What is it about your RME setup that you prefer over the Onyx?

Originally Posted by drbam

The 1640 can be modded for the FW and direct outputs to be post eq, which is what I'd want for studio only use. Clearly you'd have more options with the mixer but as others have indicated, its really a personal workflow decision that only you can make.

Do you have more info on this mod? Is it simple, reversible, affordable? Are their any links to this?

Originally Posted by erich

yeah, but you cant bring each track back to the board after recording, so you'd have to make final decisions about eq while tracking.

and yeah, i love the onyx for live sound. im getting no real latency with the fireface, though.

Bringing the tracks back to the board after recording is more what I had in mind, I'm assuming this is the 'proper' way that mixing with a board is done? What are some other boards that are set up to do this? (and I'm referring to boards in the same price range as the Onyx, if there are any)

This board seems that it would excel in a combination live/recording setting, but it would appear that most of the functionality of the board is centered on the 'live' portion of that statement, and not the 'recording' portion.

So what do you guys think? Would modding a board like this to have the firewire output after the eq etc. really make the recording process easier? I'd imagine you would fiddle with eq and that before tracking and then do small fixes after the fact itb? Are the eq's on the board good enough to consider a mod like this, or would I just be setting myself up for more headaches down the road?

Thanks for all the responses guys, I really appreciate it

[Bitfiend]

Have one trying to sell it. it's a crap great piece of gear. i'll never buy mackie again. huge mistake.
Warren at front end audio can modify it for i think $300 so you can use the faders and eq's to track. but it still won't double as a control surface for your DAW, so why would you keep it around???

personally, i'd get rid of it. the drivers and mackies support sucks. i have no idea what kind of testing they did on the ASIO driver but it is a worthless piece of shite. Plus they ended up having to send me 4 different FW cards to finally get me on that worked. then tried to charge me shipping. total joke. get on their forum, it's full of issues that are not getting resolved.

i picked up the Profire 2626 and am MUCH happier with it. no driver issues, sounds a HELLUVA lot better and no mods to be done..

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by Bitfiend

personally, i'd get rid of it. the drivers and mackies support sucks. i have no idea what kind of testing they did on the ASIO driver but it is a worthless piece of shite.

this is the truth. the guy who thinks he took a step up moving to this thing from the fireface 800 is imho, a bit lost.

nothing against the 800r though. great value and quailty and nothing in this price range with adat out touches it.

[Bitfiend]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

this is the truth. the guy who thinks he took a step up moving to this thing from the fireface 800 is imho, a bit lost.
nothing against the 800r though. great value and quailty and nothing in this price range with adat out touches it.

i agree. FF800 is a much better unit.
I could maybe see keep the Crapie if you had the mods at FEA done, and were just doing a 2 track recording in a live venue........maybe.....
which is what it sounds like that poster is doing.

I "stepped down" to the 2626, but IMHO only in price and it's temporary. Putting my $$ towards other things at the moment, then I'll come back to that step in the front end gear.

yes there are PLENTY of other control surfaces out there that will actually Control Cubase and give you the "mixing on the board" situation with better drivers, support, a/d d/a converters, etc.
search around on GS, tons of comparison for other FW solutions and controllers. And you might even end up saving some money you could put towards other things.

[Patrick5150]

Originally Posted by Bitfiend

Have one trying to sell it. it's a crap great piece of gear. i'll never buy mackie again. huge mistake.
Warren at front end audio can modify it for i think $300 so you can use the faders and eq's to track. but it still won't double as a control surface for your DAW, so why would you keep it around???

personally, i'd get rid of it. the drivers and mackies support sucks. i have no idea what kind of testing they did on the ASIO driver but it is a worthless piece of shite. Plus they ended up having to send me 4 different FW cards to finally get me on that worked. then tried to charge me shipping. total joke. get on their forum, it's full of issues that are not getting resolved.

i picked up the Profire 2626 and am MUCH happier with it. no driver issues, sounds a HELLUVA lot better and no mods to be done..

I probably should head over to the mackie boards and see what info is floating around there

the first ever interface I ever owned was an M-audio (can't remember what model it was, this was probably 5 years ago), and I never could get the thing to work right. I ended up returning it and getting the Firebox, which worked the first time and every time thereafter so............

that being said I haven't messed with the mackie enough to know if it's going to be rock-solid, but I haven't had any issues yet. Install went fine, and it worked first shot.

you think the pres on the 2626 sound better than the onyx?

[Patrick5150]

Originally Posted by Bitfiend

i agree. FF800 is a much better unit.
I could maybe see keep the Crapie if you had the mods at FEA done, and were just doing a 2 track recording in a live venue........maybe.....
which is what it sounds like that poster is doing.

I "stepped down" to the 2626, but IMHO only in price and it's temporary. Putting my $$ towards other things at the moment, then I'll come back to that step in the front end gear.

yes there are PLENTY of other control surfaces out there that will actually Control Cubase and give you the "mixing on the board" situation with better drivers, support, a/d d/a converters, etc.
search around on GS, tons of comparison for other FW solutions and controllers. And you might even end up saving some money you could put towards other things.

so by 'control surface' you're referring to something like this?

TASCAM FW-1884 | Sweetwater.com

I just grabbed that one from a quick google search as an example

I looked at the RME FF800 that has been mentioned a few times...my guess is to make a unit like that the heart of my project with drum tracking in mind I'd also be picking up another bank of pres and ADAT into the RME?

gawd I'm such a trollup, start talking about mackie and I'm already envisioning other gear

[Bitfiend]

I honestly think they "sound" EXTREMELY better than the Mackie!! Plus if you don't like them you can bypass them and run you're own outboard pre's. I've had a FW410 for at least 5 years and absolutely no problems. not the best pre's and conversion; but not too shabby for it's price range and vs. the competition in that price range. Plus their support is spot on even with the stupidest, most sophomoric questions with out being condescending about it.
there's several options at a much lower price point that would serve well, the MOTU 8pre (only one i didn't demo but really had no want to after reading a lot of negative things about it), Firestudio Project & 2626, Focusrite Saffire Pro 10 i/o & Pro 26 i/o. I looked into them all, researched them, read a lot of fourms and got a lot of input, users experience and opinons and went with the Profire. The focusrite would be my second choice. Or if you wanted to go bit higher than the Onxy or same price point, RME and Apogee would be a good starting point.

Besides you've got that big clunkin' unit and it's not a control surface. SO you're taking up all that room just for mediocre pre's and less then mediocre conversion....AND only a 2 channel stereo mix to work with vs. being able to run a control surface (if that's your thing) with as many or more outs as ins.
Like i said, i can maybe see keeping it for a live venue AFTER you had it modified (there is a step by step on the Mackie forum to DIY the mod if you are so inclined). But the hassles i've personally had with it, instability, extremely poor quality of drivers, repeated failure, extremely poor support, i'd forgo it.

[erich]

Originally Posted by Patrick5150

I think you're saying that there are better interface options over the Onyx if I plan to mix itb, correct? What is it about your RME setup that you prefer over the Onyx?

for me the fireface is the better overall choice. i had the onyx 1620, but i was mostly using a couple mpcs, kaoss pad, sound modules, etc. so i didnt need all the mic pres, and if you put a little thought into the routing on the FF800, it gives me more aux outputs, with greater flexibility. and it has routing presets, i can flip through different routing configurations live, via midi, sequenced from my mpc. the concept that i could essentially automate my entire performance, aux routing, external fx, fader movements, etc is what really won me over on the fireface.

but that said, if you're planning on micing everything, the fireface wont cut it for you alone, since it only has 4 mic pres. it does have a bunch of adat ins and outs, and actually i'd been considering looking into one of the rackmount onyx series for a bunch mic pres with conversion, and hooking it up to the adat on the fireface. but that's a very long term thing, and i'd only do it if i started recording whole bands with live drums. which i probably wont.

Bringing the tracks back to the board after recording is more what I had in mind, I'm assuming this is the 'proper' way that mixing with a board is done? What are some other boards that are set up to do this? (and I'm referring to boards in the same price range as the Onyx, if there are any)

forget about the "proper" way to do things, that's a bad train of thought to get caught up in. from what you're saying here, a console that would function that way, with good results, is way out of your budget.

but once you've recorded everything, why do you need to get it back out onto individual channels on a console? it might seem cool to do it "the proper" way and having a big console in your space looks impressive, but from what you're describing, it's not very practical.

[daverich]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

this is the truth. the guy who thinks he took a step up moving to this thing from the fireface 800 is imho, a bit lost.

nothing against the 800r though. great value and quailty and nothing in this price range with adat out touches it.

To clarify it was for recording live bands, for which the onyx 1640 excels.

If I could I would of course have kept the fireface,- It's not a bad unit by any means - but for what I needed the onyx is much better suited.

strange to hear the onyx bashing here though, maybe I've just been lucky with mine ?

Kind regards

Dave Rich

[Bitfiend]

Originally Posted by daverich

strange to hear the onyx bashing here though, maybe I've just been lucky with mine ?

I'm not trying to bash Mackie, although i would steer anyone who asked away from them.
in your situation, i agree the mackie is much more suited. portability, all you're ins, with pre's in one unit, etc. although i would get the mod done (just my personal opinion is all).
i just think the OP is in the same exacted boat my guitarist and i were in back when i bought mine and really were such noobs about it all didn't know what to look at and where to look. plus mackie was NOT clear AT ALL about the eq's and faders not working with the fw option when they first came out with the board.
i think much better choices for a full time studio setting are out there.

it is good to hear you've had no issues with yours.

[daverich]

Originally Posted by Bitfiend

I'm not trying to bash Mackie, although i would steer anyone who asked away from them.
in your situation, i agree the mackie is much more suited. portability, all you're ins, with pre's in one unit, etc. although i would get the mod done (just my personal opinion is all).
i just think the OP is in the same exacted boat my guitarist and i were in back when i bought mine and really were such noobs about it all didn't know what to look at and where to look. plus mackie was NOT clear AT ALL about the eq's and faders not working with the fw option when they first came out with the board.
i think much better choices for a full time studio setting are out there.

it is good to hear you've had no issues with yours.

true,- that was a huge oversight,- it doesn't affect me, but if it did it would be annoying

Kind regards

Dave Rich

[drbam]

Regardless of how one may feel about Mackie's gear, IMO "Mackie" has devolved into a mere shadow of its former self when it comes to build quality and to a lesser extent, support. Loud Technologies has cut every conceivable corner in every area except marketing certain "innovative" features, basically joining the ranks of Behringer's appproach. Its a sad but common story but I doubt that Greg Mackie has shed a tear. And to be clear, I'm not a Mackie basher - I've owned many Mackie products since '95 and still have a few things (I love the MCU Pro and I like the onyx pres and perkins eq). Recently however, I really had a first hand, inside look at the build quality of the Onyx mixers and was appalled at the cheesy, cheap way these things are constructed.

[Patrick5150]

Originally Posted by Bitfiend

I honestly think they "sound" EXTREMELY better than the Mackie!! Plus if you don't like them you can bypass them and run you're own outboard pre's. I've had a FW410 for at least 5 years and absolutely no problems. not the best pre's and conversion; but not too shabby for it's price range and vs. the competition in that price range. Plus their support is spot on even with the stupidest, most sophomoric questions with out being condescending about it.
there's several options at a much lower price point that would serve well, the MOTU 8pre (only one i didn't demo but really had no want to after reading a lot of negative things about it), Firestudio Project & 2626, Focusrite Saffire Pro 10 i/o & Pro 26 i/o. I looked into them all, researched them, read a lot of fourms and got a lot of input, users experience and opinons and went with the Profire. The focusrite would be my second choice. Or if you wanted to go bit higher than the Onxy or same price point, RME and Apogee would be a good starting point.

Besides you've got that big clunkin' unit and it's not a control surface. SO you're taking up all that room just for mediocre pre's and less then mediocre conversion....AND only a 2 channel stereo mix to work with vs. being able to run a control surface (if that's your thing) with as many or more outs as ins.
Like i said, i can maybe see keeping it for a live venue AFTER you had it modified (there is a step by step on the Mackie forum to DIY the mod if you are so inclined). But the hassles i've personally had with it, instability, extremely poor quality of drivers, repeated failure, extremely poor support, i'd forgo it.

No love for Presonus stuff? and yes, this thing is big and clunky...if the board is going to do nothing for me, I'd much rather have 2 1unit rackmounts.

Originally Posted by erich

forget about the "proper" way to do things, that's a bad train of thought to get caught up in. from what you're saying here, a console that would function that way, with good results, is way out of your budget.

but once you've recorded everything, why do you need to get it back out onto individual channels on a console? it might seem cool to do it "the proper" way and having a big console in your space looks impressive, but from what you're describing, it's not very practical.

excellent point...budget wise, can a noob get better results by sticking with itb mixing/plug ins?

Originally Posted by daverich

strange to hear the onyx bashing here though, maybe I've just been lucky with mine ?

Kind regards

Dave Rich

Originally Posted by Bitfiend

mackie was NOT clear AT ALL about the eq's and faders not working with the fw option when they first came out with the board.
i think much better choices for a full time studio setting are out there.

it is good to hear you've had no issues with yours.

I know the owner of the board I've currently got has had no problems, he said it's about 3 years old, and also mentioned (kinda bitterly, I might add) that Mackie wasn't clear about the fw option not including the channel strip functions, which was why he had not installed the fw option. I installed the card after I borrowed the unit, and it seems to work fine.

[Ironklad Audio]

you're taking up all that room just for mediocre pre's and less then mediocre conversion

i own an onyx 1640 myself, have a buddy who has an 800R, and have seen comments from hundreds of people online, none of whom have ever had a problem with the quality of either the preamps or the converters

i know some people have driver issues, but my 1640 has been rock-solid since i got it. there's been a few times where the driver just sort of dropped out, but it's never happened while i was working...it's always when i've left my computer on for a few days and have been doing a bunch of stupid crap. then i restart the comp. and the mixer, and everything works fine again.

i also know that there's been a lot of new stuff hitting the market in the 2 years since i got my onyx, but if you ask me, $1500 or so is still a damned good price to pay for 16 channels of preamps and conversion, along with the talkback, monitoring, and routing options that an actual board gives you.

[to-pse]

I have my Onyx 1640 for more than half a year now. Using it solely to
mix my wifes bands live (and record them at the same time). Sound-
quality of the unit is pretty good.

I have used the firewire-card with both a Sony Vaio and an Apple
Macbook Pro - both worked like a charm - never any driver-problems.
Quality of recorded audio is quite nice.

Tobias

[Bitfiend]

like i said, live use, with the mod, would be about the only viable use. but i can't believe anyone thinks for the price of that thing that the pre's and conversion is worth a shite in a studio environment.... and really in a live setting as well.

and it's stereo 2 out........that's it.....??? Zip, zilch, nada functionality...

And to a previous poster whose friend has owned one for 3 years and was a bit bitter about Mackie not being upfront; He is completely right, they absolutely WERE NOT AT ALL!!
after much hell raising by consumers they finally made some minimal mention in the lit. that you could get your hands on, then finally made it widely know. great marketing strat, be completely misleading about your product until called on it.

and it's not just a few people having issues. get on mackie forums, it's a rather large amount. of course i don't know specific numbers. and i can't say this enough the ASIO drivers are COMPLETE BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!

[Ironklad Audio]

honestly, i don't know how you can sit there and say that these units don't have a place in the studio, when there's a LOT of pros(and hobbyists alike) out there using onyx stuff in their studios with great success - be it the 400F, 800R, 1200F, or one of the mixers.

when it comes down to it, snagging a 1640 w/ the firewire costs you less money, and gives you more options, than say a pair of 800R's, which i've personally seen being used in a number of studios. sure you might be stuck with mixing ITB...but guess what? unless you have a bunch of good outboard sitting around, you're probably better off mixing ITB anyways. on top of that, is there anyone out there who can really mix a proper production on a 16-channel board, especially when you get into effects sends/returns and such? i doubt it.

i understand that you might not like mackie, and you might not like the onyx line...but to say that they have no use to anyone is just flat-out ****** speak.

[Bitfiend]

hardly "******** speak".
Focusrite, M-Auidio, PreSonorus, MOTU, and countless others i'm leaving out are extremely better, a $1000 less (or more), have better pre's and drivers, offer many times over more options, and have a lot better support......
so a live situation (1640) maybe, studio, pointless.

[warhead]

I'd like to chime in as a 1640 owner and user, a dealer, and also the only retailer in the world who ships out modified Onyx mixers so you can record the EQ path.

First of all, to say Presonus is "better" than Mackie is an opinion and not a bad one to have if you have used them side by side and prefer them. I chose the Onyx 1640 for its preamps mainly and use them to track drums and entire bands when I am capturing everything live (whether the gtrs, vox etc will be throw away or not I like to record everything). The Onyx preamps are clean and clear and on drums in particular I find them to excel above other like priced preamps. They do not get in the way of capturing a performance. I have used the converters to record a live jazz gig a while back and the results were very good.

Regarding the EQ, it's pretty good stuff and very useable but you cannot record it while tracking so we mod them to put it into the signal path post fader output or pre-fader output (I chose pre-fader on my personal board). For live use however I would not want it modified this way, as you would be recording the EQ required to work in the ROOM and committing that sound to the recording which might not make sense later during mixdown. For mainly live use and using the firewire card to track straight off the preamps, I would just use a stock board and not spend $ on the mod.

The mod also puts the INSERT into the recording path, to use outboard while tracking.

Since it only returns the stereo output of the DAW mixer you are forced to mix in the computer. I use mine (along with several higher end preamps) with SSL Alpha Link converters so in and out conversion is not an issue for me.

If you need a stack of preamps and converters in a smaller device for recording I would shy away from the Onyx which is a fairly full featured mixer tailored for live sound. Something like the Presonus Firestudio with Digimax FS units to expand your IO and preamps would be perfect really and sounds great.

War

[Patrick5150]

Originally Posted by Bitfiend

and i can't say this enough the ASIO drivers are COMPLETE BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!

You've mentioned a couple of times that the ASIO driver has given you problems...what kind of problems exactly?

Originally Posted by Bitfiend

hardly "******** speak".
Focusrite, M-Auidio, PreSonorus, MOTU, and countless others i'm leaving out are extremely better, a $1000 less (or more), have better pre's and drivers, offer many times over more options, and have a lot better support......
so a live situation (1640) maybe, studio, pointless.

Several people seem to agree that the drivers, options, and support are lacking for Mackie, but "better" pre's seems to be an opinion more than anything. Also, what Kind of setup are you talking about where I could have 16 pre's for $1000 less (or more) than a 1640? (referring to new prices)

Originally Posted by warhead

I'd like to chime in as a 1640 owner and user, a dealer, and also the only retailer in the world who ships out modified Onyx mixers so you can record the EQ path.

First of all, to say Presonus is "better" than Mackie is an opinion and not a bad one to have if you have used them side by side and prefer them. I chose the Onyx 1640 for its preamps mainly and use them to track drums and entire bands when I am capturing everything live (whether the gtrs, vox etc will be throw away or not I like to record everything). The Onyx preamps are clean and clear and on drums in particular I find them to excel above other like priced preamps. They do not get in the way of capturing a performance. I have used the converters to record a live jazz gig a while back and the results were very good.

Regarding the EQ, it's pretty good stuff and very useable but you cannot record it while tracking so we mod them to put it into the signal path post fader output or pre-fader output (I chose pre-fader on my personal board). For live use however I would not want it modified this way, as you would be recording the EQ required to work in the ROOM and committing that sound to the recording which might not make sense later during mixdown. For mainly live use and using the firewire card to track straight off the preamps, I would just use a stock board and not spend $ on the mod.

The mod also puts the INSERT into the recording path, to use outboard while tracking.

Since it only returns the stereo output of the DAW mixer you are forced to mix in the computer. I use mine (along with several higher end preamps) with SSL Alpha Link converters so in and out conversion is not an issue for me.

If you need a stack of preamps and converters in a smaller device for recording I would shy away from the Onyx which is a fairly full featured mixer tailored for live sound. Something like the Presonus Firestudio with Digimax FS units to expand your IO and preamps would be perfect really and sounds great.

War

Thanks for this post, helpful

[Bitfiend]

Originally Posted by Patrick5150

You've mentioned a couple of times that the ASIO driver has given you problems...what kind of problems exactly?

latency is awful. the drivers would completely drop. then not work again even with reboot. so i'd have to unistall and reinstall, sometimes several times. they are noisy. even with latency set as high as possible, cpu running maybe 5% you still get snap, crackle, pop. no help what so ever from support on them. need more?

Originally Posted by Patrick5150

Several people seem to agree that the drivers, options, and support are lacking for Mackie, but "better" pre's seems to be an opinion more than anything. Also, what Kind of setup are you talking about where I could have 16 pre's for $1000 less (or more) than a 1640? (referring to new prices)

Lacking is a severe understatement. especially if you get on their own forums. the pre's are not better. get the spec sheet for it and compare it to any of the other interfaces i've mentioned. damn near the same specs.
Sorry i meant a $1000 dollars or there abouts. running 2 MOTU 8pre's, 2 Firestudio Projects, 2 Firestudio 2626, 2 Pro 10 i/o, 2 Pro 26 i/o.....

"The mod also puts the INSERT into the recording path, to use outboard while tracking." another craptacular design flaw by mackie, it has to be moded to makes sense. Thank goodness for Warren and FEN! Sorry i never got around to sending my board down to you Warren.

[CassidyGT]

Wow - sad that a few people have had problems with the Mackie units. I use a 400f and find it to be reliable and very high quality in terms of conversion and preamps. I have owned MOTU and M-Audio and in terms of conversion and pre quality it wipes the floor with any offering from either company. RME makes good units, but for F/W units in that price range there really is no other competitor.

THis is just my opinion and from my personal experience. Your opinion may differ, but blanket statements about the units are not helpful. SOrry you had a bad experience, but many of us have had great ones.

[Ironklad Audio]

Focusrite, M-Auidio, PreSonorus, MOTU, and countless others i'm leaving out are extremely better, a $1000 less (or more)

where can i get 16 channels of preamps with 96k conversion for $400???

[Bitfiend]

Originally Posted by CassidyGT

Wow - sad that a few people have had problems with the Mackie units. I use a 400f and find it to be reliable and very high quality in terms of conversion and preamps. I have owned MOTU and M-Audio and in terms of conversion and pre quality it wipes the floor with any offering from either company.

you have got to be joking......!

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

where can i get 16 channels of preamps with 96k conversion for $400???

Read my next post.