Tom mics

[Lindell 2nd]

The SM57 is much used on toms as "affordable" mics. Is there any other alternatives to the 57? Ive seen the Oktava MC012 ($99 at Guitar Center), but never used ém. They have a super cardioid capsule to. Are they any good?
http://oktava.tula.net/eng/mk012_e.htm

/Lindell the compressor freak

[kevinc]

Do Sennheiser MD441`s count as low end ?

You can get those suckers for $300 or less on Ebay and they`re probably my favorite mic on various drums and my second fave on vox.

Love em` !!

[NathanEldred]

The Sennheiser 604. It's completely interchangeable with a 57 and to my ears ALWAYS sounds better. Imagine a clearer, wider sounding microphone, without the really strange gougey/cloudy midrange of the 57. The clip is cool as hell too....no stand required. It does to snare/toms what the 609 does for guitar amps. Did I say it was cheap?

[Tim L]

Originally posted by NathanEldred
The Sennheiser 604. It's completely interchangeable with a 57 and to my ears ALWAYS sounds better....

I second that emotion in a big way! Personaly I'm not particularly impressed with the clips that come with the e604's... regardless, I'd cop more of these way before I'd spend more money on 57's!

[jtienhaara]

In response to a recent thread at Tape Op, I decided to do my own little shootout. It's 18 megs and contains 24 bit WAV files (I really should dither it down to 16 but haven't had a chance). I would be very interested in hearing people's thoughts, since I'm really a drum hack and so I suck at tuning etc.

Here's the ZIP file:

Low tom shootout

My thoughts (reposted):

• Sennheiser MD421 (~ $200-$300) - Sounds great. I only have one of these and I rarely use it for toms these days since ATM25s are cheaper and take a beating. (The grille on my 421 is so bad now I had to remove it for the test. It was contacting the wires and somehow shocking me! Phantom power maybe?!?)
  
• Audio Technica ATM25 (~ $100) - Decent. But there is a "pyoowww" ringy sound that I've always had from ATM25s on drums and I don't like that.
  
• Neumann U87AI - I've been pretty down on this mic lately. But I love it on the tom. Will I ever try it there again? No. Do I wish I could afford to? Yes.
  
• Shure SM81 - I had it set up as an overhead anyway and wanted to hear what it sounded like. Crap!
  
• Shure SM57 (~ $50) - Crap crap crap crap crap. I hate these mics. (DISCLAIMER: I know you all hate me now for saying that. Spare me the flames please.)
  
• Shure SM56 (~ $75) - Here's where I was surprised. I *really* like the SM56 on the low tom. Not as much as I like the 421 or U87 -- it's not quite as full-bodied. But it's better than the ATM25 in my books.

Hope someone finds this useful. I would genuinely appreciate any advice anyone has, even just "Dude your tom sound sucks!"

Cheers,

Johann

[tINY]

I belive that Shure has a budget line of the SM series... Look at the PG56 and PG57. I think they also used to make a xx47 and xx48 microphone that should be cheap if you can find them.

I'd look at the AT PRO25


-tINY

[Bowisc]

604 is a good option.

We have these on the GMS kit at our church and they sound great both live and when recording, for the money.

[mwagener]

I had great results with the AKG TriPower D3800. They are about $150 a piece (I think)

I find, in order, I like:

1. AT ATM25- To me, this thing kills on toms. Thick and full like no other on a crappy drum. Sometimes to big. Always amazed by this one. Great pattern, no bleed, bullet proof, fits in tight spot....found on Ebay for $50 buck all day longggggg....

2. SM57- Gotta use the proximity effect to dial in the right thickness to me but, very usable. hard to fit under a cymbal with the mic positioned as I like it.

3. MD421- All I have is the old white one but, sounds to much like the 57 on a bad day to merit placing it on toms mostly. Does the lame wet cardboard tom sound pretty well. Another hard to fit in place mic.

All three will work great. The 57 and 421 can be used with success in many other applications. 421 on elec grt is great!

Enjoy!!!

D

[djui5]

I use the ATM-25 on tom's a lot as we don't have 421's at the studio...

They're not bad for most applications.....most being local band stuff....

I'm not sure I'd use them on label work though.....maybe...depends on the artist.

[oudplayer]

Sennheiser 604s... they make good percussion mics, too (congas, bongos, doumbeks, tabla, etc.)

[doorknocker]

Originally posted by dpasch
MD421- All I have is the old white one but, sounds to much like the 57 on a bad day to merit placing it on toms mostly. Does the lame wet cardboard tom sound pretty well. Another hard to fit in place mic.

I got some old (white) 'Telefunken' MD 421s and they're great on toms as well as on most other things. (kick/guitar/vocals/acoustic guitar,etc)
I guess you could happily do a whole record just with these.
Maybe your 421 needs inspection?

Andi

Maybe your 421 needs inspection?

Maybe?
Like I stated, it rawks on elec. gtr AND I have had great success on male vox with it.
It still rates #3 on my list.

I think it is fine, just not my cup of tea on toms.

To be fully truthful here, I haven't had a need to mic toms for a while. I have been using the "Slipperman" OR whatever it is called OH technique with great results. My house kit is DW with only 2 toms a 14 and a 16. These guys are loud and powerful and if I get the OHs right I don't need the tom mics.

I am usually looking for a natural kinda sound. Ammie Mann OR Wilco type thing. I don't have a clue how these guys are recorded just wanted to point out I am not going for the over processed modern thing.

And I do not do major label work at all. Haven't in years. Didn't do much when I did. Maybe it was because of my tom sounds.....



D

[doorknocker]

Originally posted by dpasch
To be fully truthful here, I haven't had a need to mic toms for a while. I have been using the "Slipperman" OR whatever it is called OH technique with great results. My house kit is DW with only 2 toms a 14 and a 16. These guys are loud and powerful and if I get the OHs right I don't need the tom mics.

I guess you mean the 'Recorderman' setup.To be truthful, ever since finishing my drum room a few months ago (small but non-parallel stone walls and maple floor) I have used nothing but this technique. Totally awesome with a good drummer (and what use is there for any micing technique when the drummer sucks?) Still, miking the toms helps. Often just for a tiny bit of 'fattening' in the mix. Maybe I just got lucky (3 Telefunken 421s on e-bay for 100 Euro each) but these babies are great. It's a totally different sound as a 57 but it excels in the same applications. I never got a satisfying sound with a 57 from my Fender Blues Junior, the 421 on the other hand is perfect: present without being harsh, full sounding without mud.

Originally posted by dpasch
And I do not do major label work at all. Haven't in years. Didn't do much when I did. Maybe it was because of my tom sounds.....

It must have been the toms. That's the one thing that has prevented me from hitting the big time. 'We love your songs and production but we dunno 'bout these toms....'

Andi

[bernieL0max]

Hi,

I use the Shure PG series of drum mics for live mixing and recording. I quite like the sound I get out of them, but I'm new to recording and probably am no where near as subjective as most of you.

If you want to hear some stuff recorded with the PG56's just let me know. I've got a nice drum solo (song intro) by a fill in drummer for the Soul Diggers (for anyone who knows 'em)... I dont *think* he would mind me sharing just a small portion of it.

pre's would have been a Behringer ADA8000 for that gig, nothing special there...

It was a live multitrack recording, and I've done nothing to the drum mix yet, no gates, no compression, no eqing... nothin. good to hear the mic sound though.

Just my 2c

Matt

[GPl]

Originally posted by Lindell 2nd
The SM57 is much used on toms as "affordable" mics. Is there any other alternatives to the 57? Ive seen the Oktava MC012 ($99 at Guitar Center), but never used ém. They have a super cardioid capsule to. Are they any good?
http://oktava.tula.net/eng/mk012_e.htm

/Lindell the compressor freak

So anyone on the oktava's? You can get these on the cheap. Don't they come with 3capsules? I just don't know how well they would work on toms. As overheads maybe.......

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by GPl
I just don't know how well they would work on toms. As overheads maybe.......

I've found that most mics that work well on overheads work quite well on toms too...but not always the other way around!!

[music]

jtienhaara, How were the mics placed? 2" above skin on outer edge. 4" above? Just curious. Thanks for posting the test and taking the time to do it. Do you have any pics of the placement of the mics. I was thinking on getting the 421 mdII, the new one. What version of 421 were you using?

Keith

[ZEUSS]

No one mentioned the audix D-2's. I used them in a pinch and they sound pretty decent after a touch of EQ. Cheap. I wouldn't use them on a floor tom though.

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by ZEUSS
No one mentioned the audix D-2's. I used them in a pinch and they sound pretty decent after a touch of EQ. Cheap. I wouldn't use them on a floor tom though.

I'm a little surprised by that too. I use them on Toms and I think they're great and cheap. I also used to use the Shure Beta 56 mics on Toms. I prefer the 421 but I don't own those yet. But for my money, the D2s come pretty close for a fraction of the price.

Interestingly enough I've been using an AT3035 on floor tom with very good results.

[cdog]

I think the 604 sucks monkeys. Thats my professional opinion. I'd way rather have a beta 57 for anything, which is just my cup o tea. But not on toms! God people, why do you put these little ratty dynamics on toms!

I put my 604s on my timbale's and conga after they were ripped off the snare for a 421 on top and 57 on bottom.

My preference for toms, in order....

U87
421
AE2500
ATM 23HE
AKG D112

Now you know!

[jtienhaara]

Originally posted by music
jtienhaara, How were the mics placed?

Hi Keith.

The MD421, ATM25, SM56 and SM57 were all 3.5" above the outer rim, pointed toward the centre of the skin (14" tom, so not sure offhand what the angle is but...).

The U87AI and SM81 were much higher up. I think the U87AI was about 2' or maybe 3' above the tom, diaphragm pointed straight down. The SM81 really isn't a fair comparison because it was just in overhead position already, and is quite far from the tom -- but I just wanted to be able to contrast my OH tom sound to direct-miking. Obviously the OHs don't do it for me.

To tell the truth I have no idea which model of 421 I have. Any idea where on the body it might be printed? I bought the mic in terribly beat-up condition for $60 Canadian a couple of years ago. I think it's roughly 10-15 years old, if that helps date it...

Incidentally I liked the SM56 enough that I just picked up 2 Beta 56s. I'm thinking of re-doing the shootout after I re-skin the kit -- but doing it on every drum and cymbal. The first shootout was definitely worth my while, so another few A/Bs might turn up interesting finds too...

Hope this helps Keith! Cheers,

Johann

[Jay Kahrs]

How many of you take off-axis coloration and rejection of cymbals into account when selecting tom mics? Sometimes the best sounding mic is the worst choice.

[warhead]

1. 421
2. E/V ND468
3. e604
4. ATM25

War

[Telecastr]

I think the 604 sucks monkeys. Thats my professional opinion. I'd way rather have a beta 57 for anything, which is just my cup o tea. But not on toms! God people, why do you put these little ratty dynamics on toms!

My preference for toms, in order....
U87
421
AE2500
ATM 23HE
AKG D112

put a u87 on toms??? if you saw how beat up the 604s get with an inexperienced drummer, you'd understand why i'm not gettin anywhere near those toms with an expensive mic. i manage to get pretty good results with 604s, but i would prefer a 421.

[Tim L]

Originally posted by Telecastr
... i manage to get pretty good results with 604s, but i would prefer a 421.

Agreed... 421's are my favorite tom mic more times than not but the 604's are damn good for the skins. You can get three e604's for the same money as a single new 421, never mind a U87. This is the "L.E.T." forum after all... no? ... cdog?... hello?

Never put the e604 up with a beta57.... but I still say they sound superior to a standard SM57 on most of the things I've tried them on... at least to me they do. Mileage and all that jazz...

[tINY]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
How many of you take off-axis coloration and rejection of cymbals into account when selecting tom mics? Sometimes the best sounding mic is the worst choice.

Words to live by... especially if you don't have a bunch of gate/compressors that you can use.

A fully adjustable (Threshold, Attack, hold, release, GR level) can help, but even then you can get some cymbal pumping in the tom mics. So, off axis rejection and coloration are important. The cheap mics often have no high end at all and good off axis rejection above about 2kHz.

Of course, this being LET, I have to say that the coincident overhead pair with extra mics for the kick and snare is a better way to go on a budget if you have a decent room to use (or access to a barn half full of hay....)


-tINY

[Dot]

Originally posted by Lindell 2nd
The SM57 is much used on toms as "affordable" mics.

57's would be used on toms by people making bad recordings.
57's work for live app on toms, but for studio toms 57's aren't even an option, IMO. Paper, cardboard, splat...

The Studio Projects B1 at $79 has proven to be a killer tom mic.

In a studio a 57 is good for amps, snare and the occasional vocal.
The B1 is much more of a workhorse mic in the studio for the same price.
They're also great on OH's, amps and acoustic instruments.

You can hear B1's and B3 used on toms on various kinds of music on Sessions 6,7 & 8 at
http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/sessions.htm

Pic of B1's on toms [ image links don't work in this forum ]
http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/jazzooo9.htm

[heinz]

On toms I've had good luck with

- 57
- 421
- 441
- ATM31
- M201
- M422N

[jtienhaara]

Holy crap, a LDC for $80?!? Thanks for the tip Dan!

Originally posted by Dot
image links don't work in this forum

The "IMG" button doesn't work. But if you "Attach file" (near the bottom of the compose screen) then you can include pictures.

Cheers,

Johann