How important is a high end soundcard if all you work with is software?

[dragonxking]

Hi,
my question is, how important is having a good soundcard when all you work with is software instruments?

the reason why i'm asking this is because I have a pair of ASP8 and a 10x12.5 room with six 4" basstraps, and I want to hear the highest in quality sound that my ASP8s can put out. right now i have a cheapo fast track pro usb soundcard. is that sufficient for playback clarity?

Gatorade. Is it in you?

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by dragonxking

Hi,
my question is, how important is having a good soundcard when all you work with is software instruments?

Gee, how important is good sound to you? Do you produce music to sell or send to others? If not, use whatever junk you want, but if you are "competing in the marketplace" you need a good reference.

But then I only record acoustic musicians, don't play synths, so what do I know....

L

[dragonxking]

Originally Posted by loujudson

Gee, how important is good sound to you? Do you produce music to sell or send to others? If not, use whatever junk you want, but if you are "competing in the marketplace" you need a good reference.

But then I only record acoustic musicians, don't play synths, so what do I know....

L

well ok. i understand that high end gear is better than low end gear. its like having a lawn mowing chair and a regular lawn mower. with the regular lawn mower, youd have to be on your feet and push the lawn mower around but in the end, you have cut grass as you would have with a lawn chair thing. I was wondering, (disregarding hardware recording) if my cheapo soundcard would be sufficient in terms of playback quality. thanks for the reply though

[Enzo Polotso]

Originally Posted by loujudson

Gee, how important is good sound to you? Do you produce music to sell or send to others? If not, use whatever junk you want, but if you are "competing in the marketplace" you need a good reference.

But then I only record acoustic musicians, don't play synths, so what do I know....

L

Relax.


You wouldn't need good (or any) analog to digital conversion, and since you don't you can spend more on a good stereo d/a. You still want a good clean signal going from the computer to your monitors, but it's up to you how good you want that to be, whether you want to spend thousands for "high end" or just "good enough."

[dragonxking]

Originally Posted by Enzo Polotso

Relax.


You wouldn't need good (or any) analog to digital conversion, and since you don't you can spend more on a good stereo d/a. You still want a good clean signal going from the computer to your monitors, but it's up to you how good you want that to be, whether you want to spend thousands for "high end" or just "good enough."

thanks for the reply enzo

now i was wondering if anyone could recommend a soundcard with a DA converter thats on par with ASP8 monitors. (how can you tell if a DA converter is any good? and where can i find out what DA converter a soundcard uses? i couldnt find it in the specs). i'm looking to spend ideally $350. $500 max

Gatorade. Is it in you?

[Bitfiend]

you need a very good quality DAC and monitors. you want the truest, most transperant representation of the music. you do not want to "hear" your equipment. you do not want the conversion or the monitors coloring the mix in anyway. This one starts at around $800LUC-AD9624 and it just goes up from there.

[top]

I wouldn't suggest going below this as with converters you get what you pay for. that said, you can dip down under $100 with some m-audio and i think berihnger products.

[Enzo Polotso]

Originally Posted by dragonxking

thanks for the reply enzo

now i was wondering if anyone could recommend a soundcard with a DA converter thats on par with ASP8 monitors. (how can you tell if a DA converter is any good? and where can i find out what DA converter a soundcard uses? i couldnt find it in the specs). i'm looking to spend ideally $350. $500 max

Gatorade. Is it in you?

Are you using a Mac? The Apogee Duet is only $500 for 2 channels of really nice DA, and as a bonus you get two good mic preamps. For around $500, I'm not sure what's out there that will do better, plus it looks cool.

[Shadow_7]

You want as good as you can get. As you have no ideal how the sound fonts you're using "really" sound without good da conversion. Your rider mower might get the job done quick. But since you've got bulky tires and on it. You missed the entire fence line, and around the trees, drive, sidewalk, dog house, and all corners. So when your client gets home you get an angry call wondering why you didn't finish mowing. There's a foresty tuft of grass around all objects and borders. You may have gotten most of it. But any client with an eye for quality and standards isn't gonna stand for it. Especially if they paid you enough to buy their own mower / weedwhacker.

If you do your own sampling, you wont know how it really sounds without good da conversion. You may not even know if you got bad gear if you don't have good converters that reveals all. I've heard at least one 205 modded mic that sounded great. Until you played it on good gear, and the bassy rumble on some of the lows shines like silver bullet. And more in line with my own gear, on my laptop wind noise doesn't sound half bad, but on better gear, it's down right annoying. And when I record bass heavy things like thunder or a Tuba, it sounds like them, but when played back on higher end gear, it's lacking the boomy rattle your bones sound that it had live. And you know for certain that your monitors / speakers are very capable of such sounds.

I suppose you could trust your predifined electronic sounds to be flawless. But that doesn't mean your clients aren't using better gear than you to listen to it. And not liking it because it sounds bad to them, and they're wondering if you're deaf, blind, or just plain dumb. It might sound good to you, but if you up the ante, the piano might really sound like a harsichord, the drums like cheap trash cans, the triangle like a broken beer bottle. If that's what you were going for, then fine. If not, you may not realize it on lesser gear.

[Enzo Polotso]

Yeah, I've personally never heard that dramatic a difference between modern prosumer converters and the high end stuff, all else being equal. You're overstating this one.

[Shadow_7]

My Korg MR-1000 really brings out the details. Without it, listening even to DVDs is like listening to people talk with stuff in their mouths. With it, it's like they took diction classes and are almost spitting the words at you with crystal clarity. I may be over stating it. But there are things that readilly show up with good converters and studio monitors, that otherwise remain inaudible with conventional stereo equipment.

To make it more layman-ish, with good gear, I can understand the words of the songs on the CD. Without it, I have no ideal what they're saying without reading along with the lyrics on the album cover.

[dragonxking]

everything that has been posted is very helpful

although what I'm really trying to figure out, is how to find out if a soundcard has good DA converters so that I may make an informed decision on my own.

thanks again for all the replies

[minus-sounds.com]

What do you use now?
For you, what's wrong with it?

[dragonxking]

Originally Posted by minus-sounds.com

What do you use now?
For you, what's wrong with it?

i'm currently using a fast track pro usb soundcard. but what troubles me is, i want to hear the utmost clarity from my monitors (event asp8) so I'd like a soundcard that is on par with it. i'd like to know more about what to look for in a soundcard so that I may make an informed decision on my own

[minus-sounds.com]

The Fireface400 is good and stable.

[Shadow_7]

For me I use my M-Audio Mobile Pre from my laptop. But I'm basically being lazy there. And it's lacking at 16 bit / 48kHz. My Delta 44 is noticeably better sounding and capable of 24 bit / 96kHz. But my DSD capable Korg MR-1000 blows both of those out of the water, even on cheap PC speakers. i.e. Even my 60+yo mom can hear the difference and she has virtually no music background. Unfortunately the MR-1000 only acts as a USB storage device when connected to a computer. I'm more of a hobbyist doing minimalistic on location recording every other weekend. So in between events the MR-1000 is relagated to being the best mp3 player I've ever had.

I was thinking of upgrading the Delta 44 to a Layla 3G. But after a taste of DSD, one of those DAD units seems attractive. Despite costing more than my last used car. Some configurations costing more than my current "new" car.

http://www.digitalaudio.dk/ax24.htm

[manning1]

dragon.
for years i chased my tail on monitors.
big studio ones , expensive ones, cheap ones etc etc.
till i realised i was chasing my tail n no perfect solution existed.
my degrees in physics n audio physics is a nasty god to worship.

but we do it anyways. cos whatever one buys often the audio physics god slaps one face
with another problem. we are masochists enslaved to this cruel god..lol.
heck i think once if i remember audio engrs once used in some studios in a bygone
era voice of the theater speakers to mix on in conjunction with baby speakers.
supposedly in a technical sense VOTtheater spkrs werent ideal in a technical sense but it didnt stop people selling records.

today, same deal...people still go to bed at night loosing sleep on the "right monitors"
and now also "the right convertors".
once again on the convertors issue, i think..like the monitors...
one chases ones tail and there is no perfect solution.
the god of audio physics laughing at us again.
and our technology.
the problem also is the bloke listening back to your beautifull song done with elite monitors n speakers prolly isnt useing the same elite set up and is prolly useing computer spkrs or junk.
mebe other audio engrs will appreciate your pristine quality but thats not the normal consumer buying your songs.
only a few consumers can afford to spend 5k on great playback systems.

in summary possibly your current sound device is good enough. dunno.
imho there will never be a resolution.
n we will all be back 10 years hence n i bet there will still be not a resolution to these problems...
cos the god of audio physics wont let there be.
he likes to taunt our puny attempts at finding the perfect solution...lol.
just my 2cents,.

[macleodgrant]

a good DA makes a huge difference to the sound over a prosumer DA even if you can't hear it. if you can't hear the difference then it's probably even more important for you to have a good DA imo

as said before the DUET is an amazing device...the DA is sweet and the price is good

[dragonxking]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

a good DA makes a huge difference to the sound over a prosumer DA even if you can't hear it. if you can't hear the difference then it's probably even more important for you to have a good DA imo

as said before the DUET is an amazing device...the DA is sweet and the price is good

starting to wish i'd bought a mac instead of a pc laptop. btw my laptop (hp dv9700t) has usb 2.0 and firewire IEEE 1394. i noticed that 1394a looks different and that all firewire soundcards use 1394a. i wonder if theres a 1394a to 1394 cable, or if that's even possible. if not, i might not be able to get a firewire soundcard after all

[Stevil]

the biggest change i notice when i upgrade soundcards is workflow.
with different cards come different capabilities & i sought out cards that enabled me to capture/process things more easily.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by dragonxking

starting to wish i'd bought a mac instead of a pc laptop. btw my laptop (hp dv9700t) has usb 2.0 and firewire IEEE 1394. i noticed that 1394a looks different and that all firewire soundcards use 1394a. i wonder if theres a 1394a to 1394 cable, or if that's even possible. if not, i might not be able to get a firewire soundcard after all

Many Windows computers have four pin firewire, all Macs have six pin. They are the same electronically execpt the six pin provides power along with the connection. Just get a four to six pin adaptor cable.

L

[loujudson]

Hey, you could try this new one, copied from the new Protools Micro:

<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829118004&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL060508&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL060508-_-SoundCards-_-L5A-_-29118004>

or Newegg.com - Turtle Beach TBS-1127-01 USB Interface Sound Card Audio Advantage Amigo - Sound Cards

[dragonxking]

Originally Posted by loujudson

Hey, you could try this new one, copied from the new Protools Micro:

<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829118004&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL060508&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL060508-_-SoundCards-_-L5A-_-29118004>

or Newegg.com - Turtle Beach TBS-1127-01 USB Interface Sound Card Audio Advantage Amigo - Sound Cards

correct me if i'm wrong, but i would assume that my fast track pro would be better than this. i'm not really asking for suggestions as much as a way to measure a soundcard's quality in terms of its DA converting.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by dragonxking

correct me if i'm wrong, but i would assume that my fast track pro would be better than this. i'm not really asking for suggestions as much as a way to measure a soundcard's quality in terms of its DA converting.

I'd assume so, too. I just couldn't resist sending that along, as it came in just today in an ad... but for $30 it might be worth a try!

L

[SurveillanceP]

in australia there is one national music station that plays original music, and i get one of my tracks or remixes played on there about once a week. I use what i guess you would call prosumer converters.

for detail, i use an admittedly sub standard toneport ux1- a usb connected soundcard for "pro audio" lol. (it clicks and pops, not in recordings but just in general)

Never had a comment about low sound quality yet, although I have had many comments on various songs such as why doesn't it kick in more here, or why is it to busy in there strings there etc on some tracks.

IMHO its a weakest link thing. our skills as a music maker may be crap in mixing, mastering, arrangement, lyrics etc.

Whatever sucks the most at where you are right now, work on that, and once you've fixed it, move on to the next weakest link :)