MIC again, for acoustic guitar making it dark! and dry!

[Niv]

hello

way in opposite to usual popular acoustic guitar recording i don´t want a bright penetration of a presence, since the overall tone of the record wants to be more decent and natural, not hyped.

therefore the guitar should remind of dry darkness, like trees in the wood, but not muddy. with clear contours, without hiss at the highs. very smooth highs but a strong middle body and a rounded bass.

AND: it should NOT sound big or wide or huge, more intimate and compact.


given pre-amp for all: dav bg u1 (clear open transparent, catches lots of details and differciation)


i tried those mics til now:

rode 2k (unusable for acoustic guitar, too much pseudo valve muddyness, too less contour)
akg c3000b (too bright and harsh)
gefell m930 (too much highs, too big sound)
beyerdynamics tg 201 (noise, bad sound, what the hell?)
SHURE C606 (sounds like a joke but: that fkn cheapest one really matched it best from all those mics)


so i might hope that anyone of you guys knows that shure c606 and appreciates its tonal character, further combining all my requirements in this and having an idea, something like a shure C606 deluxe? please no ribbon, since the price range shouldn´t exceed 500€.



thank you very much.

[Weasel9992]

Hmmm, dry and dark, but no ribbons...an sm57 maybe? SM7b? Though you said no ribbons, a Cascade ribbon with a Lundahl upgrade would hit the nail on the head and come in around your price range (I think).

Frank

[Evanskyler]

Neumann U47 FET!!! Darkest most in your face acoustic mic out there. Especially when you are playing a Gibson or an Epiphone acoustic.

Dont have $4000? Oh well, then you are screwed.

JUST KIDDING!!!!

Check out the Audio Technica 4047SV its pretty much a clone of the U47 FET for a much much cheaper price.

[Niv]

thank you for replying.


but i forgot: i don´t want it sound a silky smooth warmth like you´d get with the u47 and sorts. even the sm7b would go into that direction as well as many ribbons.

the sound i wanna go for is rough, as said like dry trees. not sure about that sm57.... maybe, if nothing better comes around.


@weael
which of the cascade series you´d prefer?

[Kris]

Consider trying out some different guitars, and look for a 'dry/dark' sounding place in your recording environment.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by Niv

@weael
which of the cascade series you´d prefer?

I have a stereo pair of Fat Heads. Love 'em.

Frank

[Evanskyler]

You are thinking of warmth a in the Tube 47. The U47 FET adds a dry intamate tone like you were talking about.

Like the kinda sound can picture with a 1943 Gibson j-45 bieng flat picked around a campfire. Real Bluegrassy. Real Bluesy.

And while the bottom can be over extended sometimes it is simply remedied with a Hi Pass filter.

You gotta hear it. Put em in xy and they get even better.

[Rogervandeberg]

you should audition a royer 121, backside. simply amazing on ac guitar!

[kozsak]

I'm thinking you might want to use a dark sounding guitar. I'm thinking old school Harmony/Silvertone etc... with an SM7...

[Niv]

Originally Posted by kozsak

I'm thinking you might want to use a dark sounding guitar. I'm thinking old school Harmony/Silvertone etc... with an SM7...

sorry, but as mentioned: its for acoustic guitar recording



@kris. the guitars already fixed (relative dark and mellow, but dry) and i got concrete plants about the room environment (<2m²)

[A LaMere]

The sm7 isn't very similar to a ribbon mic at all...

Perhaps you haven't tried it? It does a pretty grand job of 'dry', actually the best 'dry, rough' sound that I can think of in any mic that I've ever used. It sounds like old stones records to me on acoustic guitar... sounds completely different than a condenser or a ribbon in my opinion. Usually if an sm57 would work for the source, the sm7 will work just as well, if not better...

When I first got one I thought that the best way to describe the mic was 'dry' sounding and absolutely 'naked'. The mic sounds like a more dry, dark, rougher version of whatever you put into it basically...

[kafka]

Originally Posted by Niv

hello

way in opposite to usual popular acoustic guitar recording i don´t want a bright penetration of a presence, since the overall tone of the record wants to be more decent and natural, not hyped.

therefore the guitar should remind of dry darkness, like trees in the wood, but not muddy. with clear contours, without hiss at the highs. very smooth highs but a strong middle body and a rounded bass.

AND: it should NOT sound big or wide or huge, more intimate and compact.

LOL! I don't know what mic to recommend, but I think I know exactly the sound you're going for. What guitar are you using?

[Niv]

very helpful answers, thanks folks.

@la mere

right i just thought it what i know from side information not experience. since the sm7 costs 5 times the price of the 57 here i suggested it would tend more towards the usual "warm smoothness" which i think sucks on guitar while maybe best on voice. if not, ok, but then there the pricing gap remains (bad politics of german distributers since you would get it for 300$ in the us but must pay 600€ (!!!) here). so well, seems like i have to go for a 57 finally.


@kafka

its a hispanic (but no flamenco) from francesco bros (b10 and b15).

[JTC111]

Originally Posted by Niv

hello

way in opposite to usual popular acoustic guitar recording i don´t want a bright penetration of a presence, since the overall tone of the record wants to be more decent and natural, not hyped.

therefore the guitar should remind of dry darkness, like trees in the wood, but not muddy. with clear contours, without hiss at the highs. very smooth highs but a strong middle body and a rounded bass.

AND: it should NOT sound big or wide or huge, more intimate and compact.

thank you very much.

ADK A6 ...I haven't tried this mic, but I think I'm probably going to pick up a pair. There's a high-end guitar store in NC called Dream Guitars and they create a recording of every guitar they sell and put it on their website. Every recording is done with an ADK A6 (no eq) and they sound pretty damn good. And at $249 each, they'll leave something in your wallet for another toy you might want.

[GordZilla]

Check out a Kel HM-1

[ScottTunes]

If the Shure SM57 is even close to what you want, use the SM58. The 58s highs are rolled off a bit due to the ball head. But it is otherwise almost identical to the 57...

[d_fu]

May I suggest you first find a guitar (and a room, and don't forget mic placement) that sounds the way you want it to sound? After that, you can still tailor the sound with EQ, if required. I'm sure the M930 can deliver a good base from which to proceed. Try different placements, use some EQ. You can not expect to be able to find the one mic that will make any guitar in any room sound exactly the way you want...

PS: Your M201 is apparently broken, it should sound very good normally...

[Niv]

Originally Posted by d_fu

May I suggest you first find a guitar (and a room, and don't forget mic placement) that sounds the way you want it to sound? After that, you can still tailor the sound with EQ, if required. I'm sure the M930 can deliver a good base from which to proceed. Try different placements, use some EQ. You can not expect to be able to find the one mic that will make any guitar in any room sound exactly the way you want...

PS: Your M201 is apparently broken, it should sound very good normally...

all way.... don´t know. cause first the guitar´s alright since it got the sound naturally. the question is how to record that sound that way it doesn´t add the microphone specific character.the room as mentioned is prepapred well AND especially i even have the character i want with the shure c606 and thats a far distance to the gefell (good for vocals which i use it for) or the really shitty beyerdynamic (its not broken, its just a bad mic). so: i just need an upgrade from the 20€ mic shure c606, with a bit more clarity and and detailed contour than that.
and besides, trying to make up the basical sound in (post) production is the wrong way i must say. it starts at the recording moment.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by Niv

the question is how to record that sound that way it doesn´t add the microphone specific character.

Simple answer. You can't. A mic "hears" something the way it hears it given the parameters it's given (source, room, preamp). That's why I have a bunch of mics...because no one tool is right for every job.

Frank

[JTC111]

Originally Posted by Weasel9992

Simple answer. You can't. A mic "hears" something the way it hears it given the parameters it's given (source, room, preamp). That's why I have a bunch of mics...because no one tool is right for every job.

Frank

And it's not just the mic that will add some flavor to the sound. EVERY piece of gear in your recording chain will have some affect on the sound. I wouldn't get hung up on trying to find someway to make the recorded sound of the guitar indistinguishable from the natural sound of the guitar. Believe me, you can search for years and never find that. Concentrate instead on creating a recording chain that gives you a sound you really like.

[lordwesley]

Maybe look into something designed for talkback? EV might have some good possibilities.

[Blast9]

If you already have the sound from the guitar and room:

How bout renting a B & K (DPA 4011) or similar? - i.e. something flat and uncoloured.

Also don't forget to try Omni if your room sounds nice.

[Niv]

Originally Posted by Weasel9992

Simple answer. You can't. A mic "hears" something the way it hears it given the parameters it's given (source, room, preamp).

thats true til one exception: the character of source and mic match close, and thats exactly what i wanna go for.


@lordwesley
really thought about considering that, though my doubt would be that speech/talbbackers got too much overall presence. but maybe give one ev a chance, thanks for reminding.


@blast
renting expensives would be uncompatible with my moody recording habits. i have that perfect narrow 2m² recording booth with only the gefell mic for vocals, a bar seat for sitting down, a few pictures at the wall and a candle. so all that is missing is the mic for the guitar. when done with that i will record there for years, hopefully. always producing the same compact sound.

and: i dislike expensive equipment in general, sorry.

[sedohr]

You're talking ribbon. But no bullshit: SM57 can be great on an acoustic guitar. I recorded a folky guitarist that didn't want his beat-up Martin to sound too hi-fi. He had gotten a great results in the past using some ribbon mic, Coles I think, and U47. I didn't have those around ( ) so we tried the SM57. It was great. I also put up a Pearlman TM-1 and a Gefell M-300 but for this occation the Shure was it! The pre was Pacifica.

KAlli

[d1rtynyc]

Gotta agree with weasel9992.
The 57 or the SM7 are great choices for what it sounds like.
The Heil Sound PR-40 is excellent as well.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Niv

the really shitty beyerdynamic (its not broken, its just a bad mic)

Ummm... No. You are wrong. It is not.

[Evanskyler]

Dang. Don't hate on the 201, just stick it on a snare drum.

If you dont want it I'll take it off of your hands.

Somebody mentioned EV Dynamics and then I remembered I did a recording with a martin and a re-16. It was dry as a bone, it wouldn't fit anywhere in a mix but for solo acoustic it reminded me of Tom Waits stuff. You can get one used for pretty cheap.

[layez]

Your post made me think of the first time i used my Beyer M160 on my acoustic. Silky highs, not bright, and clear as day. You might want to try a ribbon.

Otherwise, use a dynamic mic (shure/ev) and move it around the guitar until you hear what you want. I think the most difficult part about recording an acoustic guitar is mic placement - it takes patience.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by kozsak

I'm thinking you might want to use a dark sounding guitar. I'm thinking old school Harmony/Silvertone etc... with an SM7...

Been using a Senn e609 at the neck of my Stella
.....blended with KSM32 up at my shoulder.

Come Away With Me

[DeepSpace]

First of all, it ain't the mic that's going to make the recording dry. The room, the placement and the post processing (gating, use of verbs, non-use of verbs etc) will be what determines if it's dry. No to mention the weather.

But dark is another matter. Plenty of mics are dark, though some of them don't mean to be. An old ribbon is probably your best bet (there are *plenty* of ribbons under 500€). Or maybe a '57 with 25 years of spit on the diaphragm. Oh - and turn the lights down while you're at it.