Avalon or API or Neve

[gearmaniac]

well I just had a quick question for you fellow GS's
I have an Avalon 737sp and I'm really not feeling it.... It feels very thin for a tube pre-amp. I am in the market for an API 3124+ mainly for drums but I don't know if it would also be better than the Avalon on Vocals. I mainly use a Neumann TLM 49 for Vocals and I dont understand why it sounds so weak. I feel like I spent way to much money for the Avalon. I am also considering a Neve pre. My main preoccupation is on the Vocals not really the drums, (even though it is very important as well). I would like to hear everyone's opinion, mainly those that have tried the avalon compared to the others. The Pacifica also calls my attention.

[AllAboutTone]

You are in the correct thinking mode, API is great for drums and alot of stuff, Neve is great as well, i own two MA5s and they are super. as for Avalon well i went down that road as well with the 737, 2022 and the 2044 compressor and i ended up selling it real stick.
Btw, i own some P-1s they are really great as well.

Good Luck

[anteupaudio]

Avalon stuff is cool for certain things but it's never blown me away. We have two of the 737's at the studio but I don't use them much. Some outside engineers/producers (especially hip-hop guys) love these things (probably more out of name recognition than actual performance) but I rarely touch them.

You can't really go wrong with API preamps. They are fantastic on pretty much anything and you can get a used 3124 for two grand or less these days.

The Chandler stuff is also amazing. If you don't need 4 channels of preamp and you'd like some EQ, pick up a Chandler LTD-1. They aren't cheap but they're awesome and that's a big understatement. I own 8 of them.

Also (in the slightly lower budget realm) I've had some really good luck with the UA 2-610.. Especially on vocals... You can pick one of these up for $1,200 - $1,300 if you look and they are very cool if you like a little color. Not great on EVERYTHING (as I said, they definitely add color) but very useful in their own right. The two band passive eq is a very nice (and usable) touch as well.

To me.. The Avalon's lack character.. They don't sound bad... They're just kind of "there"... The three units I commented on above are quite the opposite.

Hope this helps..

Originally Posted by gearmaniac

well I just had a quick question for you fellow GS's
I have an Avalon 737sp and I'm really not feeling it.... It feels very thin for a tube pre-amp. I am in the market for an API 3124+ mainly for drums but I don't know if it would also be better than the Avalon on Vocals. I mainly use a Neumann TLM 49 for Vocals and I dont understand why it sounds so weak. I feel like I spent way to much money for the Avalon. I am also considering a Neve pre. My main preoccupation is on the Vocals not really the drums, (even though it is very important as well). I would like to hear everyone's opinion, mainly those that have tried the avalon compared to the others. The Pacifica also calls my attention.

[dhiltonlittle]

i think i'm one of the few people that likes the avalon 737! it's a great channel strip for pop vocals and stacks. it works amazingly on acoustic guitar for me too. that being said i also have neve and api's. maybe try a 1073. that will give you a super pre and super eq. and will sound great with your tlm 49 and any other mic you throw at it.

[jmarkham]

Originally Posted by gearmaniac

well I just had a quick question for you fellow GS's
I have an Avalon 737sp and I'm really not feeling it.... It feels very thin for a tube pre-amp. I am in the market for an API 3124+ mainly for drums but I don't know if it would also be better than the Avalon on Vocals. I mainly use a Neumann TLM 49 for Vocals and I dont understand why it sounds so weak. I feel like I spent way to much money for the Avalon. I am also considering a Neve pre. My main preoccupation is on the Vocals not really the drums, (even though it is very important as well). I would like to hear everyone's opinion, mainly those that have tried the avalon compared to the others. The Pacifica also calls my attention.

The Avalon doesn't have a lot of character on it's own. We use it because
our clients request us to use a 737. There is nothing wrong with it. It's
a very clean pre. If you want a lot of character or shaping out of it ( like
a Neve ), then you most likely be disappointed. For a tube pre, it has
a remarkable lack of tube additive harmonics .. almost transistor
like in its cleanliness.

On the flip-side, the 737 has a lot of shaping controls if you choose to
use them. ... so it can be a compression tamer and/or bad frequency
spike tamer too.


jeff

[Fletcher]

"Toooobs" don't make the sound, toobs are just part of the engine. What you're hearing in an API or Neve is the transformers [which will have more to do with "the sound" than transistors or toobs] so if you're searching for a transformer sound you'll need to use a unit with transformers that have the character for which you're searching... that search can only be concluded through trying different units.

You might want to check out a "500 series" sized frame with some API modules, some "Vintage Design" modules [best Neeeeev knockoffs I've heard, YMMV], and maybe the Burl B-1 or a Purple "Biz" or three as all of those modules will give you more "mojo" than anything Avalon... on the other hand Avalon hardware is absolutely wonderful for "clear" recordings where you've created the "mojo" on the other end of the microphone and don't need the pre-amp to help create the "mojo" for which you seem to be searching.

Again... Your Mileage May Vary... this is just stuff I've found in my work that may have absolutely no bearing on your work.

Peace.

[JPeters86]

API preamps will get you where you want but my favorite preamp is still the Neve 1073. Hasn't been beaten in all those years imo. You can get very good imitations (like the Great River ME-1NV) for not that much money.

[Ruudman]

API, Neve.... why is this thread in the low end forum??

[goldenlotus]

API is GREAT on vox.

[spunkadellic]

i think the only reason Avalon became popular and a "standard" for hip hop is because a bunch of rappers went into guitar center and said "give me the best you got"

and it doesnt help when the guitar center rep tells them that its the best pre in the world

[EvilE]

Originally Posted by Ruudman

API, Neve.... why is this thread in the low end forum??

I feel you...however,

I am a super low-ender right now, but it I now know that it's important to have a couple FLAGSHIP pieces especially on the front end. That's why I'm getting a 512b and now I'm leaning towards the 6 space rack as opposed to just two. By getting the power supply initially you are now enabling yourself to get x amount more PRES for like 600-1000 a pop, which is affordable. I'm totally in your position right now, I need a GREAT pre for vox. After doing tons of research and stressing out really hard I'm happy with the desicion. API friggin rocks and there are a zillion other flavors available. Just check out all the threads!!! So soon enough I'll be showin everyone else my BOX too. WERD!

E

[yrlk]

API 512c + MA5 in a lunchbox and you'll have two sounds that you'll be much more happy with.

[JPeters86]

Originally Posted by yrlk

API 512c + MA5 in a lunchbox and you'll have two sounds that you'll be much more happy with.

And add a Great River MP-500NV while you're at it!

[DarkSky]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

... on the other hand Avalon hardware is absolutely wonderful for "clear" recordings where you've created the "mojo" on the other end of the microphone and don't need the pre-amp to help create the "mojo" for which you seem to be searching...

+1. This is spot on IMO.

[R'shonn]

yeah, I fell for the 737 hype initially as well.....it's cool, but really bland for $2400 with a slow compressor, and eq is coo, but I dont track with eq (its cool for acoustic stuff). Personally I dont like tube stuff for outboard gear except for mics, I would go solid state. neve (1073, 1272), api's, johnhardy, dav, any of those will be better than the 737 for anything modern. checkout some seventh circle audio pre's they make clones of all the holy grail preamps. Also yeah I sold my 737, and got a pacifica. and the pacifica was cool, it's really clean, but not as robust as a neve....I sold the pacifica too, because it was to thin sounding sometimes, (but I plan on buying it again because it is great for some apps)

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Ruudman

API, Neve.... why is this thread in the low end forum??

I was thinking the same thing.

[EvilE]

you can't be ALL low end. c'mon now.

[Evanskyler]

Try the Brent Averill Stuff he's the master of Neve/API

[Tube World]

The Avalon 737 pre by itself is clean and a little smooth. Yes today there are so many pre's that are bigger and fuller sounding. However that is not always a good thing. I like to use the EQ on the Avalon to sculpt it the way I like it to sound on a particular bass, guitar or vocals. With the EQ and compressor you can big your tracks sound bigger with the Avalon. With some of the big pre's out there, your stuck with the big sound. You may want a big sound on certain tracks but not all of them. 737 is still a great piece.

[Max headroom]

Avalon is everything but not thin ( as someone said in the first post )

It is not the fastest pre ..... not realy great on transients , so it sounds good amd polished for balads and stuff , also it has some mud ( arround 200 - 300 Hz ) and that can stack up ....

I have Avalon 737 , api 512 c , Adesign silver and GR 500 ......

On vocals .... the sound of GR 500 ( not driven ) is similar to 737 .... I mean similar in frequency ..... fat and with not too much on highs ..... on most of vocals both of them work better than api 512 c ..... ( I record pop , RnB , and similar )

GR 500 driven , sounds better and more agressive than Api 512 .... Adesign silver sounds better too ....

Snares and guitars are different thing ..... also .... it really depends on which mic You are using ...... some of them pres might shine on some mics ..... some can shine on the other ..... the source is really important too .....

I can not say wich one is the best ..... Avalon IMHO is in the same class as the other ones .... not better , not worse ......

....... but it is just gooooooood to have options :)


Cheers


Max

[Al Rogers]

As an alternative you might want to check out the Demeter HXM-1 HX. It's a tube hybrid design. It's got Jensen transformers at the front end and 12AX7 tubes in the gain stage. It's clear and fast with a bit of sweetness. It's also priced affordably compared to some of the other preamps we're discussing here. By the way, I'm pretty sure that if you buy direct there is a trial period during which you can return the unit if not satisified. I think it won't disappoint you. Although Demeter is known for his earlier all tube mic preamps, I've been very pleased with this more recent design. I think the hybrid approach has merit.

-Al

[Thierry]

No Avalon please.... except U5 never go wrong with it....on bass....that's it

Peace
Thierry

[Rev. Robb]

Originally Posted by spunkadellic

i think the only reason Avalon became popular and a "standard" for hip hop is because a bunch of rappers went into guitar center and said "give me the best you got"

This is so funny! My friend always says the same thing, "The Guitar Center Special: Alavon & U87."