Budget pre for a Royer 121

[Dissdnt_penguin]

Hi there,

I'm in the process of buying new gear, and I've already decided to buy a Firefae 800 and a royer 121, but the pre's in Fireface probably won't have enough gain to take advantage of the 121.

I'm going to use the 121 to record mostly melodic electric guitar (Think early Rothery), and probably as a room mic for drums.

I've been thinking of a Hamptone Jfet becasue right now I can't spend that much in the pre, but I'd like to hear your suggestions. Please take into account that I live in Mexico, so the import tax increases price in 17% and shipping isn't usually that cheap.

Thanks !
DP

[jnorman]

you are not the only one dealing with this problem. most average pres just do not have enough gain, not to mention clean gain, for the ribbon mics on the market today. there are a few higher end preamps made specifically for ribbons that work very well, but are perhaps out of reach for many small studios.

two recs:

1. if you have a restricted budget, you can try the Studio Projects VTB-1. harvey gerst recommended this preamp to me - he uses one on his RCA 77dx.

2. if you can spring for more, try to find a used sonosax SX-M2 - this is what dave royer recommended to me when i bought my pair of R-121s, and is the preamp royer was using in its test lab at the time. tons of clean gain. try the yard sale forum at taperssection.com

3. if you have a bank, try the AEA ribbon mic pre - almost pefect...

[dickiefunk]

ART MPA Gold has 75dB of gain.

Applied Research & Technology: Tube Mic Preamps

[tINY]

You could get a Rode D-Power Plug for an extra 20dB of gain.




-tINY

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

Actually the sonosax is more expensive than the aea ribbon mic pre, and the aea is stereo preamp....in euros is something like 900 euros for a standard sx-m2 and 680 for the AEA.

Also, if you are tracking drums and electric guitar with the 121 you probably wont be running into lack of gain issues. My fireface has enough gain for those purposes.

In your case, in my opinion, the issue isnt lack of gain but perhaps the "quality" of the preamplification, not meaning that the RME hasnt enough quality. Just that its a pretty clean and sometimes kind of boring sound for drums and Elec. guitar. So, first try the 121 with the fireface and see if you like the sound. Im sure it will work fine, dont need to spend more money. Later, if you feel you´d like something a bit more meaty you could try something like a great river or whatever.

Best luck

[Tom Hakala]

I think RME would be just enough that you don't have to worry too much about the preamps. Works nicely with SM7 and Fathead. I don't have the 121 myself, but if my SM7b and Fathead works the royer should work also.

But if you wanna have a stepup from the RME preamps (which are usable) then there's DAV BG1. That's something like $650 used.

[jnorman]

dog chao - the sonosax is also a stereo preamp, and i have seen good used ones go for $400-500 at taperssection, so they can be an incredible deal.

[seanmccoy]

I don't know what these go for in Mexico, but in the U.S. a Grace m101 is pretty affordable with 70dB of clean gain and a ton of headroom. It would be a shame to plug that great mic into a lousy preamp!

[Dissdnt_penguin]

Thanks guys!

For the used market my best shot is Ebay. Used gear in Mexico is usually pretty beat up (Unless you know the original owner, but even then you never know) and it's very rare to find High End preamps other than Avalon, Manley Labs and the like, but their cost is usually 40% to 60% higher than the average price for the same piece of gear in The States, with perhaps a few exceptions.

Mid priced pre's aren't that common because many people either stick to the pre's in their interfaces/mixers, or go for the big names, so I don't think I would be able to find a Grace m101 around here. I'll check it on ebay though.

You can get good prices if you know someone working for a dealer, but even Avalon at a discount price is out of my budget for now.

I have a DBX 386 which is really uninteresting unless the source is outstanding and the mic is good, but I'll probably keep it due to the spdif output.

I guess I could give it a try with the royer too, but I suspect I'll probably end up buying another pre. Where could I find a new Sonosax and what would be the pricetag?

I was thinking of a DAV a while ago, but the shipping+tax discouraged me. It's probably a good idea to check it again.

I'll actually go to The States for a couple days to get the Royer (If I can find a retail store in either Laredo or San Antonio) and the RME, so I thought I might as well get a pre, but it's probably a better idea to check if I'm happy with the fireface's pres. The advantage would be I wouldn't have to pay the 17% mexican tax if I bring it with me as opposed to receiving it in the mail.

Thanks again guys, nad if ne1 has any other suggestion I'd really appreciate it.
DP

[dickiefunk]

Have you already bought the Fireface 800?

If not then I would get an Echo Audio interface which have equally as good A/D D/A converters (if not better) with rock solid drivers!!
You could look at either the Audiofire 8 or 12 or the Layla 3G.

Echo Digital Audio Corporation

If you went with one of these, this would save you quite a bit of cash and you could then get the DAV!!

Also, the M-audio Profire 2626 is also worth checking out before you buy the Fireface.
This has improved A/D D/A converters over the current M-Audio stuff and has 8 pres based on the M-Audio Octane but with 75db of gain!

Here's a rough guide to prices :

RME Fireface 800 $1699

M-Audio Profire $699

Echo Audiofire 12 $530

Echo Audiofire 8 $399

Echo Layla 3G $450

All of these have top notch converters equally as good as the RME if not better! If you went for one of these you could save at least $1000 towards a much better pre!!!

[weemies]

I used to have Echo Layla3G, and now I have RME Fireface 400, and couldn't be happier. I think the Fireface will have enough gain for the Royer mic.

[aussie_techie]

the pres in the fireface should have enough gain, just use them untill you can save up a bit more money to buy a high end pre.

buying any cheaper/mid level pre will just be a waste of money as you will never be happy with it and its unlikely to be noticeably betetr than the FF pres anyway.

beyond that, look for a 2ch pre as you will get much more use have that extra channel.
i havnt used a 121 but my Buzz SSA sounds great with the Royer SF12, they are only $1500. that said there are so many option and at the end of the day anything high end should be good.

[hopeless_opus]

If you can afford the Hamptone, get it!

It's a fantastic "high end" quality pre and will work great with the Royer, or any ribbon mic. If you don't want to build a kit, I'd recommend checking out the Chameleon Labs pres, or the FMR RNP.

Any of these will be an improvement over the built-in pres in most any interface.

[King Of Spain]

121 pairs nicely with Sytek

[marcz]

Originally Posted by tINY

You could get a Rode D-Power Plug for an extra 20dB of gain.




-tINY

I found these units (tried 3) to be unacceptably noisy...

[Igotsoul4u]

Grab the revolver 2 space 500 series rack and choose from any of the incredible 500 series preamps on the market.

Atlas Recording Equipment, THE REVOLVER 500 Series Rack, Coming Soon 'THE JUGGERNAUT' 500 Series Preamp! Atlas Blank Panels - Call Us Toll Free @ 866.235.0953

[tINY]

Originally Posted by marcz

I found these units (tried 3) to be unacceptably noisy...

Good to know....



-tINY

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u

Grab the revolver 2 space 500 series rack and choose from any of the incredible 500 series preamps on the market.

Atlas Recording Equipment, THE REVOLVER 500 Series Rack, Coming Soon 'THE JUGGERNAUT' 500 Series Preamp! Atlas Blank Panels - Call Us Toll Free @ 866.235.0953

i can't see the logic in buying a 2 space rack for $400 when you can get a 6 space for $425 . the pricing seems ludicrous. "list $575" ? lmao

[Dissdnt_penguin]

Thanks for all your suggestions guys.

I decided to save for a better 1k-ish pre. I have had some difficulties to get the royer because the dealer in Mexico said they don't have it right now, so if I can get 10 other people to order one they'll bring it.

I finally went to the states to get the RME and it wasn't an easy task. I bought it at a GC in Laredo and had to drive all the way to Austin to pick it up. Laredo GC sucks, but the guys at Austin were very helpful so I'll go back for the royer and the pre.

I've been considering a chandler germanium, pacifica or great river ME-1NV because a DAV would kill me with the taxes.

I must add I didn't expect the pres in the RME to be that nice !

DP

[gearaddict]

Grace Design m101..has a button just for ribbons

[staudio]

Originally Posted by gearaddict

Grace Design m101..has a button just for ribbons

At this price ($550) there is no better option. I love my 101's.

[steveschizoid]

The dBX 386 is by far the best "low end" mic pre I ever used. when I bought my first higher end pre - a Portico - I was underwhelmed because it was no where near $1000+ better (to my ears) than the DBX. It was more like $100 better. Getting the best possible recordings is a game of inches, and these days I use 10 channels of Aurora Audio pre's, 4 API and 2 A-Designs, but the DBX 386 is a really nice pre for the $350 they usually run on ebay. Plus you get 2 channels of conversion with spdif outs.

[Doc Mixwell]

Have you considered the AEA TRP? Its not really low end, but cost effective for sure.Its pretty amazing paired up with 121's with acoustic anything........