Favorite low price ribbon mics?

[danbronson]

I've been listening to clips of different ribbon mics and so far the Apex 205 is sticking out as a killer ribbon for the price. There are a few places that show you how to mod them too, and Michael Joly will adjust the tension of the ribbon as well as the usual stuff, but that gets a little more expensive.

What are your favorites on a budget? Especially for getting a good distorted guitar sound, or for taming harsh vocals and cymbals?

Also, is it possible for a hobbyist to adjust the tension of the ribbon or does this require specific tools/skills?

[Michael_Joly]

Did you know there are only three basic low end ribbon mics? Any differences within these mic types between manufacturers come down to quality control (ribbon sizing, installation accuracy and tension), component details (wire used, transformer type, connectors, headbasket design) and aesthetics. Here are the three "families" of inexpensive ribbon mics...

1.) Short ribbon with wide magnets (ex: Cascade Fathead and Gomez Michael Joly Edition, Nady RSM-4 & RSM-5 etc.),
2.) Long ribbon with narrow magnets (Apex 205, Nady RSM-2, ShinyBox 46, Cascade Vin-Jet etc.) and
3.) Dual ribbon (CAD Trion 7000, Avant CR14).

A full rundown of the various attributes of these ribbon motor types can be found in this thread. But to summarize:

1.) Short ribbon with wide magnets - has an early HF roll-off making it ideal for taming guitar cabs, screechy vocalists, cymbals and horns.

2.) Long ribbon w narrow magnets - has the most extended HF response of the three "Chinese" ribbon mic types. A more "Hi-Fi" sound not as dark as above.

3.) Dual Ribbon - increased sensitivity over the other two types, a bit "thicker" bottom end due to the dual resonant ribbon frequencies (which are never exactly the same), but suffers from off-axis phase cancelation coloration due to source-to-ribbon arrival time differences between ribbons.

Can you tension a ribbon yourself? Sure. Buy two mics, learn on the first, when you break the ribbon you will have learned something about ribbon mics than can only be gained by actually handling them - then apply it to the second mic.

[bigwig1987]

Pacific Pro Audio makes a pretty nice Ribbon for 100 bucks. They also have a stereo ribbon for around 300. I've bought a few products from them in the past(Including one of their 100 dollar Large Diaphragm Condensors(which are worth every single penny) and one of their firewire drives with the 911 oxford in it). Just google that shit, and check em out.

[Cujo]

Didn't have luck with the PPA LD2UBE...had 3 of em not work properly and crapping out. I gave up. It sounded ok for 300.00 bucks though

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by bigwig1987

Pacific Pro Audio makes a pretty nice Ribbon for 100 bucks.

This would be an example of the "long ribbon / narrow magnet" style motor. While this ribbon motor is the same as the ShinyBox 46 and Apex 205, the large, undamped headbasket of this PPA-rebranded mic is prone to mechanical resonance (as is the Nady RSM-2 etc.) The smaller headbasket models like the 46 and 205 do not have the same ringing headbasket resonance.

[warhead]

I've always picked the Apex 210 actually as the nicest out of the box ribbon (like, not modded etc) in the lowest price range. Mr Joly here does a mean Apex 205 modification of course!!!

War

[jnorman]

shinybox 46 and fathead II. both great mics for great prices.

[phillysoulman]

I like my Trion 7000

[CharlieSFS]

I love my cascade fathead. Great on vocals and guitar cabs.

[Corran]

On ebay, this guy sells rebranded Chinese mics under the brand name "Stellar." I got two of these that look just like a 121 and they are sweet sounding...I have a really nice vintage ribbon and I can tell you it's nicer sounding but not 4x the price nicer...

As Mr. Joly said, retensioning the ribbon is a great thing to do. Mine were severly untensioned and I retensioned both (without breaking them!) and they sounded a lot better.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by Corran

retensioning the ribbon is a great thing to do. Mine were severly untensioned and I retensioned both (without breaking them!) and they sounded a lot better.

Right. I just worked on two Nady RSM-3 (Royer-look) mics today - both ribbons were so slack they were actually laying on the baffle screen when the mic was held horizontal.

These were "early issue" RSM-3 mics that came in wooden boxes. These early RSM-3 models featured the offset ribbon placement patented by Royer for use in the R121. This technique provides higher SPL handling on the front side and a brighter sound on the back side.

Later on Nady issued RSM-3 mics with ribbons centered in the magnet gap to get around their earlier infringement of the Royer patent.

[Corran]

Yeah mine were offset, but backwards to get around the patent (or so I've heard) so I flipped the ribbon motor around. I have to flip the phase though because I didn't want to rewire it.

[FirstLoveStudio]

T.Bone RB500 - it has got to be the best price vs excellence ratio of any bit of gear I've ever used. Amazing on everything acoustic for Glok to piano to overheads. Terrible on guitar amps though!

From Thomann.de

[deve]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Right. I just worked on two Nady RSM-3 (Royer-look) mics today - both ribbons were so slack they were actually laying on the baffle screen when the mic was held horizontal.

These were "early issue" RSM-3 mics that came in wooden boxes. These early RSM-3 models featured the offset ribbon placement patented by Royer for use in the R121. This technique provides higher SPL handling on the front side and a brighter sound on the back side.

Later on Nady issued RSM-3 mics with ribbons centered in the magnet gap to get around their earlier infringement of the Royer patent.

In which category RSM-3 falls into?

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by deve

In which category RSM-3 falls into?

The RSM-3 is a short ribbon / wide magnet type.

As such, it has somewhat attentuated high frequency response above 7kHz. This ribbon motor type is also found in the Cascade Fathead & Gomez, Nady RSM-4 & RSM-5. By way of contrast, the long ribbon / narrow magnet type motors found in the Apex 205, Nady RSM-2, Cascade VIN-JET etc. have the potential to be flat out to 16kHz. I say, "have the potential" because the presence or absence of reflective surfaces near the ribbon (stock or modified mic) will affect frequency response flatness.

So to the original poster's question, "Favorite low priced ribbon mics?" - the short ribbon / wide magnet mics with their early HF rolloff are popular where taming HF may be important - guitar cabs or drum OH. On the other hand, the long ribbon / narrow magnet mics with their extend HF response seem to be more popular where preservation of HF is important - acoustic guitar, acoustic piano & vocals.

[rockrev]

Can't go wrong with a Fat Head. Great customer service too!

dj

[phillysoulman]

Cad Trion 7000

[chickencoop]

Nady RSM-4 with the Joly mod!

[drBill]

A recent drum mic shootout left me liking the MJ modded 205 over the fathead, although both were nice. For a room mic, it smoked the fathead, and for overheads, it edged it out - but by a smaller margin. I have to say that I really like the sound of the longer ribbon on drums where lowend is very important to me. The Fathead seems more voiced towards the midrange. I also tried Cascade's stereo X-15 and liked it a bit better than the fathead for OH, but I only had one fathead, so I couldn't do stereo - so maybe that's an unfair comparison. I like the build of the Cascades over the Apex. I guess I should try one of Cascades longer ribbon motor mics!!!

[deve]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

The RSM-3 is a short ribbon / wide magnet type.

As such, it has somewhat attentuated high frequency response above 7kHz. This ribbon motor type is also found in the Cascade Fathead & Gomez, Nady RSM-4 & RSM-5. By way of contrast, the long ribbon / narrow magnet type motors found in the Apex 205, Nady RSM-2, Cascade VIN-JET etc. have the potential to be flat out to 16kHz. I say, "have the potential" because the presence or absence of reflective surfaces near the ribbon (stock or modified mic) will affect frequency response flatness.

So to the original poster's question, "Favorite low priced ribbon mics?" - the short ribbon / wide magnet mics with their early HF rolloff are popular where taming HF may be important - guitar cabs or drum OH. On the other hand, the long ribbon / narrow magnet mics with their extend HF response seem to be more popular where preservation of HF is important - acoustic guitar, acoustic piano & vocals.

I will bookmark this page. Such great info. Thanks.
Btw, I just recieved a pair of fathead II's. Many thanks to Michael and Kathleen. They were extremely helpful. It is tough to be an overseas buyer. I gave them a call and everything was fast and smooth. Great service.
I tried them as room mics on a drum session yesterday. They are smoking hot. Very happy indeed. Makes me want to try other ribbons as well. RSM-3,which looks like a rebranded ShuaiYin SYR-40 is promising since I have a ride crazy live room. I also want to try a Cascade X-15 and long ribbon designs. Chinese ribbons rule!

[Gdub]

Second all the mentions of Cascade here... bought a Fat Head from them about a month ago and have nothing but the absolute BEST to same of them, for both their mics AND their customer service!

[climber]

just curious:

1) how can you tell if a ribbon mic needs retensioning?

2) can you do it yourself, or how much should it cost if you do need it?

3) are there mods for a Cascade Fathead, or is there any need for any? none on Michael's site, and I figure if there were he would be doing them.

thanks...

[walter tore]

Hi Michael: I am learning here! I have a beyerdynamic M500 ribbon mic and love it on my vocals/harp. It was under $250 used. Thanks for fixing my oktave mic. It works great! Walter

[Phrygian]

I like my 46MX, but all this talk about Fatheads is giving me an itchy buying finger...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by drBill

A recent drum mic shootout left me liking the MJ modded 205 over the fathead, although both were nice. For a room mic, it smoked the fathead, and for overheads, it edged it out - but by a smaller margin.

I should also add that the Fathead sounded great, but that the kit I was recording, and the music itself, called for a really ballsy bottom end heaviness, and that's why I preferred the 205's over the Fathead. On a different kit, different music, the Fathead would have been great.

Still looking for more opportunities to work with the X-15. Love the build and basic sound, but don't completely have a handle on it yet. Great mic for the $$$. Maybe great period. Time will tell.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by climber

just curious:

1) how can you tell if a ribbon mic needs retensioning?

2) can you do it yourself...

Listen in headphones as you rock the mic slowly forward and backward - bringing the face of the mic parallel to the floor. If you hear a sudden thump, bang or scrape the ribbon is very loose in the gap and should be retensioned.

See pictures and read about a ribbon tension DIY here:
Ribbon mic sag and repair - Hometracked

[chandlersonic]

Is the Beyer M160 considered low end??

If it is, it'd be my choice. Incredubly versatile mic. I seem to be able to use on just about anything.

[Kim Bjäle]

I dont consider the Beyer M160 as a low end but low-priced (at least here in Sweden). It would probably be my choice for a low-priced ribbon. I`ve heard a lot about the Apex 210 but have not heard it. I also like the Goldenage Project R1 Active. The Sontronics Sigma is a great ribbon but the cost is a bit higher.

Kim

[zeppe]

CAD Trion 7000. Way nicer and more versatile than other ribbons I've owned including the RB500 and Oktava ML-52. Looks cool too and cheap!

MySpace.com - duped - - Alternative / Powerpop / Rock - www.myspace.com/dupedmusic

[johnnyjellybean]

Fathead II all the way.