Project studio equipment list - sanity check before purchase

[nemo]

Hello, after getting some questions answered here (thanks!) we are getting close to a final list.

Please check below and let me know if you find anything odd or missing there..
Just to add, we have a budget set aside for the acoustic treatment.

monitors – Yamaha HS80M
condenser mic – Rode NT1a (matched pair – besides main vocal also for OH)
mic preamp – ART MPA Gold
interface - Echo Audio Audiofire 12
8-ch mic preamp strip – Presonus Digimax D8
drum mics set – Shure DMK57-52 (3x SM57 + 1x Beta 52A)
snare mic – bottom – Audix I5
hi-hat mic – Audix F15
small console for monitors and phones volume – Behringer Xenyx 1002
headphone amp – Behringer HA400
tracking headphones – 3x AKG K55
mix headphones – 1x Beyer DT-880
cables – Sommer Cable

I am not sure whether the Xenyx will not impart the signal from interface output to monitors, as we need the external volume control - AF12 does not have the output volume knob and I dont want to rely to sw for monitors volume control.

Regarding the vocal mic and pre I am pretty set. The other issue is the Presonus Digimax D8 - they just started shipping it, so not much experience there, but I believe the pres quality will be as good as the previous proven 8-ch presonus strips.

Please feel free to comment. Thanks for looking!

The band page for a style reference: Ke staženÃ*

[bengl3rt]

I wouldn't monitor through a Behringer mixer, might color your sound. It might be a budgetary stretch but I would try to use a Presonus Central Station for monitor control instead.

[nemo]

Thanks, then I will avoid the Xenyx and go for the SM Pro Audio MPatch 2 instead - easier on budget and hopefuly not worse than Presonus CS.

[nemo]

That monitor station looks nice, albeit a bit of an overkill for our needs.

And by that hi-hat mic comment you mean that a hi-hat would be more than enough captured by OH's and snare mics?

[jdier]

Originally Posted by nemo

Hello, after getting some questions answered here (thanks!) we are getting close to a final list.

Please check below and let me know if you find anything odd or missing there..
Just to add, we have a budget set aside for the acoustic treatment.

monitors – Yamaha HS80M
condenser mic – Rode NT1a (matched pair – besides main vocal also for OH)
mic preamp – ART MPA Gold
interface - Echo Audio Audiofire 12
8-ch mic preamp strip – Presonus Digimax D8
drum mics set – Shure DMK57-52 (3x SM57 + 1x Beta 52A)
snare mic – bottom – Audix I5
hi-hat mic – Audix F15
small console for monitors and phones volume – Behringer Xenyx 1002
headphone amp – Behringer HA400
tracking headphones – 3x AKG K55
mix headphones – 1x Beyer DT-880
cables – Sommer Cable

I am not sure whether the Xenyx will not impart the signal from interface output to monitors, as we need the external volume control - AF12 does not have the output volume knob and I dont want to rely to sw for monitors volume control.

Regarding the vocal mic and pre I am pretty set. The other issue is the Presonus Digimax D8 - they just started shipping it, so not much experience there, but I believe the pres quality will be as good as the previous proven 8-ch presonus strips.

Please feel free to comment. Thanks for looking!

The band page for a style reference: Ke staženÃ*

i would suggest looking at the RME FF800. You could keep your mics as you have lined out and just add an Octamic D and have 16 inputs. I would hazard a guess you would be more reliable and have better sound than any set up that included berhinger stuff.

Get that and then something like an Oz Audio 6 channel headphone mixer where each guy can set his own levels.

Just a thought.

[nemo]

I am now really considering going for the Presonus Monitor Station - that will effectively replace both Behringer Xenyx console and HA400 phones distributor. So that will make a B*-free setup

IMO, no need to go for FF800+Octamic D - that option would considerably blow up the budget for very little or almost no benefit,
compared to AF12+Digimax D8 (apart from four more inputs..)

[Speeddemon]

I would consider some other LDC's next to the Røde NT1a's, as they are known to be bright/harsh-ish.

From what I can tell, the CAD M-179 is extremely allround (poor man's C414). I myself own an SP B3, which I find pretty neutral and useful for all kinds of things.

I'd also rather have 1 good snare mic, than mediocre snare-top and snare-bottom mics.

And in your monitor-budget, you might wanna consider Event TR-8's.
But yeah, it's a good idea to skip the Behringer stuff, if you're gonna invest in Sommer cable.
Btw, aren't the MOTU 828MKII's (USB) in your budget as well? 8 in, 8 out and lots of other options.

[GloryisSilent]

Originally Posted by nemo

I am now really considering going for the Presonus Monitor Station - that will effectively replace both Behringer Xenyx console and HA400 phones distributor. So that will make a B*-free setup

IMO, no need to go for FF800+Octamic D - that option would considerably blow up the budget for very little or almost no benefit,
compared to AF12+Digimax D8 (apart from four more inputs..)

Significantly better drivers, and much higher quality aren't benefits?

Fewer hassles as well of course.

You get what you pay for, the ff800 is worth every penny.

The octamic isn't needed. The digimax will work great with the fireface. A quality interface for ITB work is absolutely crucial. The one thing you should consider the most.

[Karloff70]

Definitely stay clear of the Behringer, unless you want to fight your setup for sound and always loose....

I would also check out some other speakers, as I've tried those yamaha's and found them a bit lumpy and illdefined, but they'd probably do the job. Check out secondhand stuff (listen to what you can't afford in the shop, then get secondhand what you like). PMC, KRK and Adam come to mind...personal preference up to you.

I would add at least one compressor for recording, say a dBx160 of either variety (x/xt/a). Hard to make sound bad. Tiny bit cloudy, but very musical and cheap. Can be unclouded aswell, going inside to swap a couple of bits, but most probably fine in standard.

Good luck, and stay clear of the bad B-word....

[nemo]

I like converters in AF12, we are not going for FF800 for almost double bucks. Funds simply arent there.. And are here really any AF12 haters? ..)
What much higher quality are you talking about?
Haven't you read the FF800 vs. AF12 Match of Titans threads?

TR8 - big no no, had them, hated them.

morac, what Sony phones did you mean? We will have one set of DT-880 as a good closed set for mixing and vocal cutting. But for other musicians while tracking we would need some cheap but acceptable ones.

Yes I thought about the compressor too, but it will be added probably later after the budget recovery..

[Karloff70]

For closed headphones I'd agree with any Sony (that you can afford) or my favourite, Fostex TR40P. Or even the cheap fostex T-7. The only Fostex gear worth having, and REALLY nice!! Check'em out.

[Disjointed]

imo,

id drop the pres and headphone mixer and get a decent used console (for around$1000) .. youll get decent pres, eq's, and mega-routing.... plus uber upgradibility

gl

[nemo]

Not bad idea..! Any particular tips for decent not too expensive (used) console with good pres?

Mackie? Allen Heath, Soundcraft? I am a total noob as far as consoles go..

[larrykane]

Originally Posted by bengl3rt

I wouldn't monitor through a Behringer mixer, might color your sound. It might be a budgetary stretch but I would try to use a Presonus Central Station for monitor control instead.

Actually as much as I deeply dislike (read hate) Behringer. I recently did a shootout between the small eurorack as a monitor mixer and an Aphex unit and the behringer was rather transparent and surprisingly acceptable. I don't think you should be tempted to use the eq though and you might want to run your interface monitor out into the tape ins to bypass any unneeded trims and gain stages. Certainly don't use to process any inputs to your DAW.

[woodfoot]

I'd definitely drop the behringer stuff and go for the central station. The cs is totally passive so you only hear what is there with no distortion shyte to tell you lies.
You can probably get one on eBay for less than you would pay for that mixer and HP amp together. I got mine for £170.
I also think any RME interface is a move as they're super stable and they have good converters, definitely better value for money than an echo.

[Speeddemon]

Originally Posted by nemo

Not bad idea..! Any particular tips for decent not too expensive (used) console with good pres?

Mackie? Allen Heath, Soundcraft? I am a total noob as far as consoles go..

Depends on how many inputs you need.
If you can live with 10 mic pre's and 4 stereo channels, you can't fault the Allen & Heath Mixwizard 14:4:2. Has 2 Matrixes.

ALLEN & HEATH :: WORLD CLASS MIXERS

and although more expensive, it can be had for under $1000 used (if you're patient...)
the GL2400-16. This one has EQ bypass buttons per channel and more LED read-outs, and 4 Matrixes.

http://www.allen-heath.com/AHImages/GL2400_top.jpg

Both have 4 sub groups, talkbacks, etc.

These mixers will be definitely better sounding than the LX7 stuff from Soundcraft.

A used Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 would be cool too.

[woodfoot]

Originally Posted by Speeddemon

Depends on how many inputs you need.
If you can live with 10 mic pre's and 4 stereo channels, you can't fault the Allen & Heath Mixwizard 14:4:2. Has 2 Matrixes.

ALLEN & HEATH :: WORLD CLASS MIXERS

and although more expensive, it can be had for under $1000 used (if you're patient...)
the GL2400-16. This one has EQ bypass buttons per channel and more LED read-outs, and 4 Matrixes.

http://www.allen-heath.com/AHImages/GL2400_top.jpg

Both have 4 sub groups, talkbacks, etc.

These mixers will be definitely better sounding than the LX7 stuff from Soundcraft.

A used Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 would be cool too.

+1 for allen and heath if your set on getting a desk.
I got a system 8 on eBay for £150. Bargain
I know it sounds like Im on commission from eBay but Im not. Most of the time theres a lot of shit on there but every now and again you can spot a steal.

[Disjointed]

i picked up an AMR 800 24 channel 8 buss, about 6 months ago for $1300

but i had ppl offer me some other boards; a soundtracs mrx 32 (very nice); Soundcraft ghost... some very nice boards all for around $1000+...

if yore really interested put a WTB ad in the sale forum here.... i had about 8-10 different offers from ppl....

note: these are large consoles (5-6' wide) - but it also gives your studio that badass 'pro' look


gl

[GloryisSilent]

Originally Posted by nemo

I like converters in AF12, we are not going for FF800 for almost double bucks. Funds simply arent there.. And are here really any AF12 haters? ..)
What much higher quality are you talking about?
Haven't you read the FF800 vs. AF12 Match of Titans threads?

TR8 - big no no, had them, hated them.

morac, what Sony phones did you mean? We will have one set of DT-880 as a good closed set for mixing and vocal cutting. But for other musicians while tracking we would need some cheap but acceptable ones.

Yes I thought about the compressor too, but it will be added probably later after the budget recovery..

It has nothing to do with the converters. It's 100% about the drivers, where RME excells.

I guess you'll figure it out on your own.

Cheap pays twice... don't forget that.

[nemo]

Have you acually worked with any Echo Audiofire interface?

[LeMauce]

monitors – Yamaha HS80M => change this for the yamaha msp 5 or 7. More deeper sound and much and much opener sound in the mid/high. Also better in smaller rooms or desk near walls, the bassports are in the front so you have less worrie's about your stereo image.
The HS80/50 are to dark for me (mix rock/jazz/blues). But that is just my 0.02cents.

[redddog]

Originally Posted by nemo

Have you acually worked with any Echo Audiofire interface?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say...no. Clearly.

I have NEVER had a problem with Echo drivers. That's more than I can say for the FF800. Now I'm not saying that FF800 has bad drivers. That's clearly not true. But to insinuate that the echo drivers aren't as mature as RME's just isn't true.

The conversion is as good if not better. Converter quality is subjective. But I prefer the conversion to the RME.

As for the pres...? Well I hated the pres. It was the main reason why I started looking to sell the FF800. It simply amazes me that ANYONE would buy 8 of them (octamic). They are horrible.

So higher quality and significantly better drivers is a statement that obviously comes from someone whose never plugged in one of the units he's comparing.

Have I guessed right?

[Lunatique]

I did an extensive listening test recently of headphones, and I much preferred the Audio-Technica M50 over the DT880, and the M50 is sealed so can double as tracking headphone (I actually got it for tracking, but it sounds as good as my Sennheiser HD555 that I'd use it for checking my mixes too). The DT 770 and 880 can be a bit too sharp--especially obvious on 80's synth pop music with big/bright snares--it's almost painful on those headphones but perfectly fine on the M50. The M-Audio Q40 is also quite excellent, although I like the M50 just a bit more. The M50's gotten rave reviews from heavy weights in the pro audio industry--just check AT's site.

I have a Xenyx and I have done A/B tests of it in and out of the signal chain and did not notice the Xenyx coloring my signal path.

[larrykane]

goodcans.com has nice headphone info and seme reccommendations for all levels. I don't think they sell phones so they are unbiased. They helped me decide on sennheiser HD280s for tracking. no regrets
Headphone Recommendations grouped by price range!

[dickiefunk]

I'm using the Echo Layla 3G and love it. The drivers are totally rock solid and it sounds fantastic!!

Is there any particular reason why you're going for the Audiofire 12 over the 3G?

I've also got the SM Pro Audio M-Patch 2 and this thing sounds great! I was originally using a Behringer UB2442 fx pro and replaced that with the Soundcraft M8.

The Soundcraft was a little better than the Behringer as a monitor controller but the M-Patch 2 is a big jump up from the Soundcraft!!

I also have a Behringer HA4700 for my headphones which is passable but not great!

I also second looking at getting another mic to compliment the NT-1a. I have one of those also and it sounds great on some stuff but can sound awful on others.

Any of these would be a good option :-

Oktava MK-319
MXL v67g
CAD M177

Finally the Sennheiser HD-280 pro headphones are nice tracking headphones!

[Saudade]

Looks like a pretty well thought out list to me, I can see how each piece is selected for a function and not much overlapping and paying for frills.

I have some suggestions though:

- instead of buying a pair of NT1a, why not buy two different mics? Perhaps with contrasting sonic characters. Perhaps a LDC + SDC. Get a bright/fast mic for percussive transients, and also get one with more body and less hyped high end for sibilant singers. If you are thinking matched pair for OHs, maybe try different drum miking techniques w/o matched pairs, like Glyn johns method etc...or get a pair of Naiant XQs for that purpose (CHEAP!!!!)

- Instead of the 57s etc for the drums, substitute them all with those equivalent dynamics from Avantone, heard some gd stuff about them...

- minus HH mic (don't think you need it)

- for more $, get the SMPro Audio HP6E headphone amp. 6 channels, individual control AND if I remember correctly 5 input pairs (or mixes) selectable per channel!!! For that price there just isn't anything out there I wonder why????

- I think your Xenyx for headphones will be a better choice than the SM-Pro AUdio M-Patch2. I have that, and I am very happy with everything except the heaphone amp. It is WEAK, gives a loud pop whenever you plug in, and also an even louder POP when you switch on the power with the heaphones plugged in. I have a small old 4 ch Behringer mixer and its headphone amp is way better and louder.

GOOD LUCK FOR YOUR SEARCH!

(I don't work for any of these companies mentioned above )

[Disjointed]

if you want to save some cash.... these headphones get good writeups for tracking and are nicely priced - i have a 5 pack on the way..

MoreMe Studio Headphones

gl

[nemo]

Thanks all!

dickie: I go for AF12 for - more outputs and more mobility option with fw it can be used with another DAW or laptop.

Saudade: I went for the shure mic kit partially for the SM57s that can be used for guitar amp or horns (?) too and B52 for bass cab. Not sure about going blind to avantone set, albeit it might be good. The Shure is sure, right?

Updates:
monitor control - decided to go for Presonus Monitor Station
HH mic - discarded
referencing headphones - AT M50 - all these reviews are unbearably convincing.
Apart from that, I have HD600 at home that I can occasionally bring and use.

The other vocal mic will definitely come later. I have now in transit some allegedly promising not too bright chinese tube mic from group buy by the other forum board, so we will see. For the moment, for the voice of the particular vocalist, the NT1a has been recommended, so we will try it. If it fails (hopefully not) at least it can serve as the part of the OH pair.
Also the Art MPA Gold has a variable impedance so it can alter the character of the mic and give more versatility (at least, that's what I've heard

Now, only in question are the tracking headphones for musicians - cheap, durable and with acceptable sound - keep the suggestions coming in!

[nemo]

Ok then, MoreMe. That would make it complete. Thanks.

[bayareamatt]

Originally Posted by LeMauce

monitors – Yamaha HS80M => change this for the yamaha msp 5 or 7. More deeper sound and much and much opener sound in the mid/high. Also better in smaller rooms or desk near walls, the bassports are in the front so you have less worrie's about your stereo image.
The HS80/50 are to dark for me (mix rock/jazz/blues). But that is just my 0.02cents.

I own a pair of HS80M - Totally Agree - they almost seem to be "made for the electronic musician" (very "digital" sounding, if that makes sense, especially the tweeter). I don't know the technical reasons for this (if you do, feel free to elaborate), just an observation.