ACMP-73 +++++Neve 73 CLone

[OldTimey]

If anyone felt a pang of annoyance at Brad's "ad" they should have just let it go. Seriously. If he were to use a free board more extensively to promote and conduct some kind of exploitative business then fine that's too much.

I'd rather not see a whole lot of back and forth here concerning private business dealings between private citizens, but as far as informing us GB participants of one possible solution, thank you for that Brad.

To tell you the truth, in this downshizzle economy, I actually applaud your entrepreneurial spirit!

[Brad McGowan]

Downshizzle...ain't that the truth. I went to the bank to try and refinance to take advantage of the good rates. It turns out I'm underwater so no new loans for me. My house value is way in the shitter. I figured I could either sell pieces of metal or matchsticks...

Brad

[BudgetMC]

Gearslutz! Land of Love!!!

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

it doesn't seem as friendly an environment as I've experienced here on Gearslutz.
Brad

[Brad McGowan]

It's quite ironic, huh? But, it's home...

Brad

[drBill]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

Gearslutz! Land of Love!!!

Please dim lights and cue the Barry White vinyl.......

[BudgetMC]

Yes... you are a member of this community.

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

It's quite ironic, huh? But, it's home...

Brad

[Brad McGowan]

But it's only because I have more than 3100 posts.

Brad

[OldTimey]

Dude, i have 147 posts. 139 of them on this thread. I am so not part of the community!

[not really, maybe 15 or so hah]

[montanasan]

Any UK slutz received anything yet?

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I've used my Royer R121 with the ACMP's and it requires a similar amount of gain as the SM7. I've experienced no clipping or distortion. I suspect there was some kind of gain staging problem.

Interesting that you found it to work with the Royer R121. What was your experience of the sound withthe R121?

For my test with the SM7 the chain was the same: SM7 > pre > Lynx Aurora 8 AD/DA > PT w/ level set equal within the DAW for all preamp tests. Exact same cables used - I physically made the cord changes for each test.

Keep in mind I've worked with a UA610 for a few years which has both gain and output controls similar to the ACMP's. The bottom line is the 2 ACMP's I received don't offer enough clean gain to juice an SM7. The only pre that could truly drive it clean with gain to spare was the Pacifica.

The output on the 73/84 was maxed (to allow for the most clean volume), I believe I had the gain two or three notches from the lowest gain stage. With the EQ out there was distortion (hiss was not too bad but not the best of the pre's tested).

EQ in was totally unacceptable - there distortion as well as audible hum (let alone hiss) on each unit.

Keep in mind, I'm digging the 73 for bass DI at the moment and will likely use the 73 & 84 on kick & snare.

I simply can't get around to a condenser test yet. The ACMP's might sound fine at low gain stages. We're getting record lows here in Seattle so I can't record anything without a forced-air furnace getting picked up in the backround rendering any detailed tests useless.

For those who are getting good results w/ their ACMP's tell us what combinations are working for you.

[Brad McGowan]

Yeah I had no problems with the R121 set up a few feet in front of a drum kit. I can't remember where I had the gain set, but it was probably somewhere in the middle of the range. The output was likely maxed. The Royer sounded like a Royer. The ACMP84 I was using lacked some of the detail that the Pacifica provided, but it was certainly no slouch. It sounded robust. An interesting thing to note was that I preferred the R121 with the 1200 ohm setting whereas I thought the 300 ohm setting really brought the ACM3 (Royer copy) to life, giving it a lot more weight and midrange mojo. It was hardly a scientific test, but no strange distortion problems jumped out at me. I can't say that I tested the higher gain settings though since the source was quite loud.

Brad

[Matti]

"I believe I had the gain two or three notches from the lowest gain stage. "

As you have noticed the markings are db´s of the source, not the gain.
-80 db is the max gain, not the lowest.

Matti

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by nuemes

The output on the 73/84 was maxed (to allow for the most clean volume), I believe I had the gain two or three notches from the lowest gain stage. With the EQ out there was distortion (hiss was not too bad but not the best of the pre's tested).


For those who are getting good results w/ their ACMP's tell us what combinations are working for you.

I don't think the output maxed is the right thing to do. If you notice, the metering should be post-output control, so if you're getting distortion it's probably because you're crushing the output and pegging the meter.

With my 84 and an SM7, I had the input gain at 12 o'clock and the output down to maybe 10:30. Totally clean. The metering (at least on my particular 84) is fairly accurate. That said, I do think the SM7's reputation of needing an ass-load of gain isn't all that true. Not compared to other large dynamics and some ribbons.

I just recorded some demo heavy-guitar tracks last night with the 84 and the ACM-200 phantom powered double ribbon. I found the ACM-200 to be pretty hot... I had the input gain at 2 clicks up from minimum and the output set around 10:30 again. With no EQ whatsoever, the mic about 8 inches from the grill offset about 2 inches from the dustcap, the tone was really, really satisfying. On playback I was very surprised that I didn't immediately throw an EQ on the guitars. Pretty awesome, if you ask me. I'll try to share those tonight and compare it with the SM7, which I usually use on heavy guitars.

FYI, the ACM-200 needs to be screwed in tightly in it's shockmount, or you get loud "bump" and handling noises through the body of the mic if the slightest thing touches the mic stand.

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by MATTI

"I believe I had the gain two or three notches from the lowest gain stage. "

As you have noticed the markings are db´s of the source, not the gain.
-80 db is the max gain, not the lowest.

Matti

That's correct - I gathered by listening as I turned the knob. thumbsup

The gain was not maxed. 2 or 3 detents from the -20 mark.

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

I don't think the output maxed is the right thing to do. If you notice, the metering should be post-output control, so if you're getting distortion it's probably because you're crushing the output and pegging the meter.

Nope. VU was not pegging, not even close. And, unless your unit was designed the exact opposite of mine, I can tell you with absolute confidence that the gain knob is the gain knob.

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

I do think the SM7's reputation of needing an ass-load of gain isn't all that true. Not compared to other large dynamics and some ribbons.

Mensch. Please... The SM7 is notorious for needing gain - that's why I used it for the test (also because many people own them and can judge a review accordingly). Yes, it's not quite the hog that a R84 is but it's a hog nonetheless.

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

I'll try to share those tonight and compare it with the SM7, which I usually use on heavy guitars..

Well, here's the crux, isn't it? My test specifically states I recorded a quiet, breathy, vocal with the SM7 and it sounds like you're slamming it with a guitar cab and Brad was using his R121 if front of a drum kit.

CONTEXT, PEOPLE, CONTEXT

Try quiet vocals (not rock) with an SM7 and tell us what you find.

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by nuemes

Nope. VU was not pegging, not even close. And, unless your unit was designed the exact opposite of mine, I can tell you with absolute confidence that the gain knob is the gain knob.



Mensch. Please... The SM7 is notorious for needing gain - that's why I used it for the test (also because many people own them and can judge a review accordingly). Yes, it's not quite the hog that a R84 is but it's a hog nonetheless.



Well, here's the crux, isn't it? My test specifically states I recorded a quiet, breathy, vocal with the SM7 and it sounds like you're slamming it with a guitar cab and Brad was using his R121 if front of a drum kit.

CONTEXT, PEOPLE, CONTEXT

Try quiet vocals (not rock) with an SM7 and tell us what you find.

Whoa, dude. When I replicated your test I did so speaking into the SM7 with a normal speaking voice. I never said I tested it on a guitar cab. So settle the **** down with your breathy voice. All I'm trying to do is find out if there's another problem with these preamps, since so far you're the only one reporting distortion from the preamp stage alone.

Since we're all taking your word for it, post a sample of your test. If you're going to post statements posing as facts on multiple message boards slamming a piece of gear, lets hear the evidence. I will post mine tonight. At least entertain the possibility that your unit in particular could be defective.

Say what you want about the SM7, I've never had a problem recording vocals with it through my even just my Soundtracs console pres. You want to fight about it?

[Brad McGowan]

Now, now boys. We're all friends here. This isn't homerecording.

Brad

[CrankyRayHanky]

I got some cool tones with my Crowley Tripp Naked Eye ribbon in front of a 1960av...maybe I'll throw a clip up later if anyone's interested

[nuemes]

Here we go...

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

Whoa, dude. When I replicated your test I did so speaking into the SM7 with a normal speaking voice.

You never shared that you, "replicated my test" in your post; you only referred to recording heavy guitars which would lead one to think accordingly.

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

so far you're the only one reporting distortion from the preamp stage alone.

I'm not the only one. Someone here posted guitar recorded with the gain low and then high. They said the high gain stage made it sound fuzzy.

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

post a sample of your test.

Only if you come over to witness to ensure I turn the knobs correctly, big boy.

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

If you're going to post statements posing as facts on multiple message boards slamming a piece of gear...

Posing as facts? When was my opinion about how something sounds (or anyone else's) a fact? If you took the time to read my post rather than getting in a huff you'd see I praised the ACMP73 in my first review as the best bass DI I've used yet.

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

At least entertain the possibility that your unit in particular could be defective.

Never said otherwise, thanks for putting words in my mouth...

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

Say what you want about the SM7, I've never had a problem recording vocals with it through my even just my Soundtracs console pres.

Wha...? Saying the SM7 requires a lot of gain is negative?

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

You want to fight about it?

[BudgetMC]

I'm beginning to think that these preamps have some sort of evil power... one which turns innocent audio engineers against one another...

Resist the forces of preamp dischord!!! Embrace the communal spirit of love that is the group buy!!! Be strong!!

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Now, now boys. We're all friends here. This isn't homerecording.

Brad

[CrankyRayHanky]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

I'm beginning to think that these preamps have some sort of evil power... one which turns innocent audio engineers against one another...

Resist the forces of preamp dischord!!! Embrace the communal spirit of love that is the group buy!!! Be strong!!

Flip the polarity before it's too late!

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by nuemes

Here we go...



You never shared that you, "replicated my test" in your post; you only referred to recording heavy guitars which would lead one to think accordingly.

What did you think I meant by "replicate"? I wanted to see if mine acted similarly to yours.

When I discussed recorded heavy guitars with the ACMP84, I specifically stated I used the ACM-200, and my comments were about the mic and the particular application thereof. I wasn't even responding to you at that point, I was trying to offer my impressions of one of the mics no one seems to talk about. It's true I use the SM7 for heavy guitars often, but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about, except for the coincidental common denominator: the SM7.

Perhaps I should have been more clear.

Originally Posted by nuemes

I'm not the only one. Someone here posted guitar recorded with the gain low and then high. They said the high gain stage made it sound fuzzy.

Then I must have missed it. But no one is talking about that much, so what's up with that? Anyone know where that post is?

Originally Posted by nuemes

Only if you come over to witness to ensure I turn the knobs correctly, big boy.

What's wrong with wanting to know how you had it set? Is it a big secret? Initially you just said the pre was crap and distorting everywhere, with no details on what you were doing with the controls.

Originally Posted by nuemes

Posing as facts? When was my opinion about how something sounds (or anyone else's) a fact? If you took the time to read my post rather than getting in a huff you'd see I praised the ACMP73 in my first review as the best bass DI I've used yet.

I did see that. My issue was that you gave a very negative review of the pres on multiple forums, giving no insight on what you did to achieve that sound. Then when pressed for details you got all bitchy.

Originally Posted by nuemes

Never said otherwise, thanks for putting words in my mouth...

I didn't see you mention the possibility of a defective unit. You stated that it was garbage (other than as a DI), and that was it.

Originally Posted by nuemes

Wha...? Saying the SM7 requires a lot of gain is negative?

No.

Originally Posted by nuemes

Sarcasm, bro. I thought the smiley with a mallet would have given it away, but I guess not.

[nuemes]

Who's within shoe distance?

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by nuemes

Who's within shoe distance?

Just so you know, I can out-duck Bush, so do your worst.

[nuemes]

PoorGlory,

Your responses continue take some of the things I wrote out of context. Whether this is to win the arguement or just lack of careful reading is not worth anyone's effort but yours at this point.

You also made a good point that I didn't take into account during my review process: I didn't post on any settings made on the pre's. Now, doing so is a slippery slope (we've all seen the posts about AD/DA comparisions get down to the nasties nitty gritty detail until the universe swallows itself backwards) but no doubt in it would have been helpful. Next review I'll do so.

Moving forward: I got an ACM-200 too, really looking forward to hearing it on vox & amps!

[PoorGlory]

We're still talking about this?

Anyway, here's a sample of the ACM-200 phantom powered double ribbon through the ACMP-84. No EQ through the 84, but I took a 1 db cut at 180 hz with a plugin before bouncing. This is a fast metal-rock demo I wrote about an hour ago, so don't judge the arrangement (or the playing)... the drums are a Boss drum machine with a simple rock beat just to keep time. Guitar is a Les Paul with a Duncan Custom in the bridge, through a Hughes and Kettner Matrix solid state head, and into a 4x12 cab with Eminence Governors. Double tracked, panned hard left and right. Converter is the Frontier Design Tango. Amp wasn't as loud as it should have been, but it is what it is.

ACM-200/ACMP-84 heavy guitars

[heyman]

OK.... Everyone needs to calm the hell down and watch this video....!

You will find inner peace with your Preamp and all will be well..

YouTube - Spinal Tap - (Listen to the) Flower People

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

We're still talking about this?

Anyway, here's a sample of the ACM-200 phantom powered double ribbon through the ACMP-84. No EQ through the 84, but I took a 1 db cut at 180 hz with a plugin before bouncing. This is a fast metal-rock demo I wrote about an hour ago, so don't judge the arrangement (or the playing)... the drums are a Boss drum machine with a simple rock beat just to keep time. Guitar is a Les Paul with a Duncan Custom in the bridge, through a Hughes and Kettner Matrix solid state head, and into a 4x12 cab with Eminence Governors. Double tracked, panned hard left and right. Converter is the Frontier Design Tango. Amp wasn't as loud as it should have been, but it is what it is.

ACM-200/ACMP-84 heavy guitars

First, nice playing...love it.

Second, that sounds just fine to me...thick, big...just the way it should.

What was wrong with these preamps again?

Frank

[Crash]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

ACM-200/ACMP-84 heavy guitars

I was just waiting for Halford to come in with the vocal line....

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by Crash

I was just waiting for Halford to come in with the vocal line....

It is pretty Priest-y, but that wasn't the intention. thumbsup